Isn’t it more demonizing to men to say that it’s normal sexual desires that makes a man rape? By that extension, if any guy gets horny enough, he’ll commit rape.
But that’s exactly what is implied by the whole “rape is about power” idea. Rapists are just like other men, except that they are willing to rape; saying that rape is about power is an accusation that men are all motivated by the desire for power women more than anything else. More than lust, more than greed, more than anything.
“Rape is about power” is a political statement, a subset of the whole idea that men are all part of a vast conspiracy to keep women down.
No, it isn’t. Not even kinda.
Yes, it is since the alternative is the even sillier claim that no man who lacks an agenda against women will ever rape, regardless of how ruthless he is.
Redpill: You have said repeatedly in this thread words to the effect that unless a guy finds a woman attractive he won’t be able to get it up and thence rape her. Do you not think that some men get hard for reasons other than seeing an attractive woman? Men can and do get erections in non-sexual situations for reasons other than physical attraction.
It is a truism in criminology that sado-sexual serial killers gradually evolve (if not apprehended) to the point where killing is the priority and sex, rape, is an afterthought. What drives, what arouses, is the taking of another’s life - the exercise of the ultimate power.
A classic example of this is Ken Bianchi, one of the LA stranglers (i.e. the dual murder on January 11, 1979 that finally led to his arrest).
So do women who get off by fantasizing of rape. I you are gonna find exceptions to support your claim, so can I. Even in those exception, physical attraction to the other person is necessary to actually perform the act.
You watch too many movies.
I’m strictly talking about rapes involving erection. Way to follow the debate.
No there’s no such extension. That’s like saying because “people who steal food are usually hungry” leads to " if a person gets hungry he’ll steal food. "
Even in these rare forms of rape cases the killer only choses those who he finds attractive.
I think it would be more appropriate to call these crimes primarily homicides. I’m discussing rape only.
This is one bucket of crazy.
Rapists are just like other men, except that they are willing to rape? I don’t see how you can type this out and still not see that it is you who is demonizing men. That goes for Redpill too, who for some reason thinks being a man gives him special insight into a rapist’s mind.
It’s like saying with a straight face that Jeffery Dahmer was just like other men. Except for the whole murdering, cannibalism thing. But I guess that’s a tiny detail.
Does you being a woman give you a special insight into what makes a woman wet? Same thing.
If simply being male gives you special insight into this madness and this madness and this madness, then it’s time for me to become lesbian.
Yeah, I think it might work out better that way.
That’s only “demonizing men” if you buy into the whole idea that rape is always part of an anti-woman agenda; the very thing I’m arguing against. Otherwise, it isn’t any more demonizing of men than saying that “everyone wants money, but muggers are the ones willing to bash you on the head and take it”.
No, that’s a silly comparison. Most people have no desire to eat other people at all. Rape, murder and theft though - there are women I find attractive, people I hate, money & property I’d like to have; merely removing my moral self restraint would straightforwardly lead me to rape, murder and robbery. Not because I am demonic, but because that’s how someone with no moral restraint acts if they can get away with it.
Is it pro-woman?
This is a baffling conversation.
Normal men are not rapists.
Most men are not rapists.
There is a subset of men who are rapists. That subset does not appear to rape out of desire for a sexual release that can be achieved via other means. They can have consensual sex with a woman in the morning and rape another, or the same, woman that evening. They can have a wife or another available partner and still rape because they don’t want sex from the rape, they want rape from the rape.
They can be turned on and attracted solely to women yet rape other men to humiliate them and demonstrate their power.
Some people get off on having other people in their power. You know this. I know you know this. You aren’t saying all men are evil and oppressing women when you talk about the ones who do, so why are you claiming that I’m saying that all men are evil and oppressing women when I talk about the ones who do?
Rapists don’t, in my opinion, have an agenda other than, “I want to hurt this person. I want to damage and control and humiliate this person. I want this person afraid. I want to savor this. I want to remember how it feels to have someone so frightened, so helpless, and in my power.”
That’s not a normal man.
Without agreeing with Redpill by any means, you’ve made a number of assertions here that are both dubious and without supporting evidence:
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The old saw that “Rape is about power, not sex” is something that was largely borne of political opinion about 25 years ago and which seems, almost self-evidently, to be a wild oversimplification, and
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The claim that all rapists are sociopaths is flatly preposterous. Unless, of course, you have supporting evidence, I simply do not believe it.
The factual element of this is surprisingly correct.
Dating age women are significantly more likely to be raped. It is possible to argue this is because dating age women tend to be considered more attractive.
What is also possible, and IMHO likely, is that rape is, in the majority of cases, a crime of opportunity. The majority of rapes are acquaintance rapes. Women of the dating age rage are much more likely to be in a position where a rape is more likely.
Saying rape is about X, if X is attraction, lust, hatred for women etc is an overstatement. Rape is about all of them at different times.
Which means you’re arguing against a straw man. No one has said rape is always part of anti-woman agenda. This is a phantom that you’re railing against.
I won’t say rape is never about power, but I will say that I do believe rape is often about sex. Almost always, probably. It ends in ejaculation (usually) and that is a sexual response. If a girl and a guy who have always gotten along just dandy end up in his room and she is kissing him and grinding him and his penis is getting rock hard and she changes her mind at the last minute, but he already has his knees between hers and he knows that if he just holds her tight and covers her mouth and thrusts a few short inches in front of him he will feel that feeling his body is calling for…I gotta call that sex rape more than power rape.
Now if a man shoots a gun into a vagina (WTF, Freudian? I never knew of such atrocities, and I thought I had read the craziest atrocities when it came to war stories) I will go ahead and call that power rape. For sure.
“Rape is about power, not sex” was probably coined so that people could stop being fixated on the sexual attractiveness of the victim and focus it on the “attractiveness” of coercion in the mind of the rapist.
It is an oversimplication, because obviously sex is involved. But when you’re dealing with a dumbass public who thinks you can compell a man to rape by being attractive enough, one has to resort to oversimplified messages to change their thinking around.
What? None of this stuff? :
What’s the sensationalism in that?
No, rape isn’t typically pro-anything; it’s self indulgence. Not everything in the world is motivated by politics.
No; usually it is the men who find it difficult to get a willing partner who rape.
No, rape in prison is primarily about deprivation combined with ruthlessness. Which is why they stop raping other men when they are out of prison despite being just as nasty people outside as they were inside.
Because claiming that no men anywhere are just selfishly indulging their lust is part of the attempt to portray all men as part of some woman hating monolith. Rapists in this case being an example of “acceptable targets”; if you complain about how men are being portrayed you get bashed as a defender of rape.
Nor is it a normal rapist. That’s more of a feminist caricature of men.