I gave a very similar example in the other thread, of discussing what to do with my husband’s half-working XBOX. I know nothing, and care nothing, about XBOX. However by asking him about the pros and cons of the different choices he had, I was able to form an opinion.
Hello Again, I thought that example was different–it seemed just like a basic cost benefit analysis of different courses of action. It didn’t really require you to know anything about an Xbox to form an opinion on the best course of action.
We have those conversations in our house. And they are useful. Because he does tend to make decisions based on “superior technical platform” and I tend to have opinions based on “how many games are available? What kinds? Are there games for the kids?” Both are valid criteria for evaluating a gaming system.
There are plenty of things I don’t know much about to have a very technical opinion on, but I can show interest in them. And that is the nice thing to do.
If Rand’s wife is setting him up for failure by asking for his opinion on her purse and then mocking him for his lack of knowledge on the pros and cons of a key strap, exterior pocket, or handles over long straps - he has bigger issues than not knowing about purses. I suspect instead its that he prefers to be the expert and therefore isn’t very comfortable saying “I like the lighter brown - and I think leather holds up better than fabric.”
I wouldn’t ask them, or I’d be ready with an explanation when they want further information to make the opinion.
I was only trying to help illustrate the point Rand was making, which wasn’t really working with the purse example.
Similarly, most of these “what do you think [of fashion item]?” questions require only surface aesthetic analysis that any person is capable of.
I ask him stuff because I value his opinion. I know he doesn’t know dick about women’s work clothes, but I can ask him if I look fat in it, can’t I? Or if it’s too matronly, or too young, or whatever.
Right, Rand alleges even asking the question is “jerkish” because the opinion of the unknowledgable party is “clearly worthless” and to merely ask is “setting them up for failure.”
You agree however, that when you ask a person of limited knowledge about something, both a surface answer, or a request for more information, are acceptable in the circumstances, right? Neither constitute failure or are obviously worthless responses?
Note that if you ask a question of an unknowledgable party, and do not accept either a surface answer or request for further information, you definitely are a jerk, and definitely did set up the other party to fail. I dispute that this is the case when women, in general, ask a man, in general, what they think of a fashion item. It may be the case in Rand’s marriage, I don’t know. In that case, his wife is a jackass.
This kind of attitude, to me, just says you’re refusing to even try because you’re a man it’s below your manliness to have an opinion on woman stuff. You know your wife, what she does, what kind of things she has in her purse, you could have an opinion. You could notice that one has a good pocket for a cell phone, or one would or wouldn’t match her winter coat or that one is hideous or she already has 46 brown purses so get the black one. A purse is the same thing as a wallet. She could notice about a wallet that it’s too fat or doesn’t have enough card slots.
Clothes; which sweater makes her boobs look great, which one looks frumpy or reminds you of your mother.
Start actually looking and listening, take an interest, and eventually you’ll be able to have an opinion. She probably just wants some interaction from you when you’re shopping together.
If my husband asks me about something he wants and I don’t know anything I’ll at least ask why one is better and help decide if it’s a better that he needs. I can ask if he already has something like it. I don’t really care what he gets but sometimes I care how much it costs or if we need another gadget around the house.
Sure - we just had a conversation like this recently. My husband belongs to a professional organization for his job. The members were asked to weigh in on whether or not the organization should support or oppose a piece of legislation that’s coming up in our state. He knows all about this subject as it has a direct impact on his work and he’s been in the profession for nearly two decades. When deciding on his vote, he asked my opinion. I have no knowledge of the subject, but I asked him what the arguments were for both sides and we discussed it - me asking questions, him giving me information. I told him what I thought and he listened to my opinion. Will he take what I said and vote the way I think he should? Probably not, but he’ll consider my thoughts while he’s making his decision. He thinks I’m smart and values my perspective on all sorts of subjects, as I do his. He knows I don’t have the knowledge he does about the subject, but he trusts that I might think of a way of looking at it that he won’t.
I bought a laptop for my own use recently. My husband has negative interest in computers or anything like that - in our house, that’s my area. When I had narrowed my choices down to two or three, I talked with him about it. I explained to him the pros and cons of each one. He really could not care less about computers, but I just needed to bounce ideas off him. He listened, asked questions (some of which I hadn’t considered), and then I took those ideas into consideration when I made my final purchase.
I don’t know - we like each other. We have respect for each other’s thoughts on stuff.
I get what you are saying–I shouldn’t interpret her question as anything beyond “do you think it’s preetty?” because she knows that I know nothing about purses. But I’m not sure this fully explains the situation–one purse should be chosen over another based on factors beyond whether it is pretty. I know that she knows this, putting us back into the position of me wondering why she is asking the question in the first place.
Maybe she has the utility part covered and, now that she’s narrowed it down to a few that would work practically, would like an opinion on the aesthetics part.
:rolleyes: This is where I stopped reading.
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Interesting. My wife and I also like each other and have respect for each others’ thoughts on stuff. But when I am making a decision on something that I have the final say on and that my wife couldn’t possibly have an opinion on, I just don’t feel the need to ask her about it.
Well, we interact plenty when we shop together. There are ways to interact without her asking me my opinion on a purse. It’s not like we are walking along stoically and quietly and the only way we could possibly talk about anything is if she asks what I think about a purse.
It’s actually kind of weird how strongly you insist there is a proper way to buy a purse and you refuse to be a part of it. Its almost like… you have really strong opinions on what a good purse is.
Truly honest question: is there someone hypercritical or extremely opinionated in your life, such that you have “learned” that most questions asking for an opinion have wrong answers? A father, mother, mentor or otherwise trusted friend? Old girlfriend or Ex-wife? Is there someone that criticizes/d you if you speak about something on a less-than-expert level?
I ask because I can tell you have kind of an intense, upsetting reaction to this situation, but it seems very disproportional to your wife’s behavior, and your explanations for why it is so upsetting lead you to read all sort of motivations into the very act of asking the question. This suggests to me that you are repeating a prior relational pattern, rather than reacting directly to your wife.
Well, my job is basically to give an expert-level opinion on stuff I know a lot about all day long. I think I am the hypercritical person–I’m much harder on myself than anyone I have ever worked with has been.
I guess I take the concept of an opinion on something much more seriously than I should. Maybe the reason for that is that I don’t want to feel bad about myself if I later determine I was wrong.
Damn, Hello Again, are you going to send me a bill for this session? 
First one’s free for fellow attorneys. 
i think perhaps you have a different idea of “opinion” than most people; when someone asks you if you like this purse, they’re not asking for anything beyond, “Yes, I like it; it appeals to me” or, “No, I don’t like it; it does not appeal to me.”
C3, my husband and I do that, too. I’m the plant expert in our house, but I don’t just buy everything without asking any input from him; he might not know the specifics of each plant, but he knows, “I like the purple flowers.”
I do actually get my husband’s input on clothes, though - he picks out better clothes for me than I do for myself. That’s as far as it goes, though - he’s out when it comes to accessories. I ask for his opinion a lot for clothes, but much less for other girly stuff. If he didn’t care or have an opinion on any of this stuff, I wouldn’t bother him about it a lot, but I’d still like to show him my new stuff - share my joy, dude! It was 50% off!
In our house there is not ‘girly stuff’ and ‘manly stuff’ - there is my stuff, his stuff and our stuff (oh, and of late the baby’s stuff).
Like others, we value each other’s opinions, and understand that while we might be the expert at our ‘stuff’, each of us is capable of asking questions and bringing other info to the table to help with making a decision - the sounding board. We know that I am the researcher and the detailed one, and we both use this to our mutual advantage, while he’s great at making the actual call to stop me dithering.
And sometimes simply explaining your reasoning between two items can make you realise there’s only one choice - which can cut down the pain and effort of making a decision.
It doesn’t hurt that he loves shopping, and has very strong opinions about clothing, colours, decorating etc, and is happy to take my lead on electronics, technical and DIY etc.
An example of a recent decision - we just bought a car. It’s on his dollar as it’s a work allowance, and he had a certain set of criteria he was trying to meet. He wanted to know what I thought, and what else the car should have. I researched safety ratings, dimensions, driver reviews, second hand pricing etc, and and probed the criteria he did have. Eventually convinced him to look at a Japanese car $10K below his ‘need to pay this much or I can’t get what I want’ budget, and he bought that instead of the Italian car that didn’t actually meet his needs. He keeps raving about how glad he is that he decided to buy this car.