But cable guys make out like bandits, right? Right?
A) Do you really think I made such a life altering decision on such a small thing? and
b) Even if I did, oh well - still better to not have children if I can make such a decision over such a small thing.
Anyhoo. I shall keep your advice in mind.
Ha, my mom described mammograms as someone grabbing your boob, turning it into a pancake and pulling it into another room. I get to enjoy that next year and I am NOT looking forward to it.
The only proper responses for a man to utter under those circumstances is “you look great” or “you look fantastic”, if he is called upon to say anything at all. Staying silent in the background is also a safe option.
I think you’re being overly dismissive, Carol. WHY should a pregnant woman be subjected to unwanted touching? Why isn’t that as offensive as a woman having her buttocks groped while riding the subway?
Yes, medical personnel performing medical things have a legitimate reason to touch pregnant women wherever needful but honestly, anyone else touching a pregnant woman without her express permission should be out of bounds just like any other uninvited touching.
And it IS yet another example of how pregnant women are viewed as “other” and subjected to other people dictating how their bodies are to be treated. It’s offensive, even when done for “kindly” reasons.
Mammograms are like pregnancy and a lot of other things - you hear only the horror stories because the usual non-horror is just too boring to repeat.
I’ve been getting them for awhile now. No one “grabs” your boob, indeed, every mammo tech I’ve encountered has been very respectful of personal boundaries and letting me know what’s going to happen before it happens. No, it’s not comfortable for most women but it’s not agony (it is, unfortunately, for some). There shouldn’t be any pulling involved. Honestly, I’ve had a lot more unpleasant things happen to me during routine medical/dental stuff.
Thank you for this, my first one is this year. People do play up the worst experiences, this is true. I heard this about my period, about Essure, about tampons, really about everything to do with women, and now the mammogram horror stories.
A pregnant woman shouldn’t be subject to unwanted touching, though I don’t think it is as offensive as having one’s buttocks groped on the subway. In the latter case, a stranger is looking for sexual gratification from you without your permission - or at the very least, their goal is to intimidate and harass you. Equating a boorish but well-meant tummy pat from someone delighted to share in your pregnancy with an act that is hostile no matter how you cut it minimizes the nastiness of the subway groping.
I also don’t think for a moment that Anaamika decided not to get pregnant because she feared strangers touching her belly, and I apologize to you, Anaamika, if it came across that way. I simply found the gap in significance between getting an occasional unwanted belly pat for a few months and having to raise a child striking. Hence my comment about medical school and the amount of mayo on sandwiches.
No, I don’t think the unwanted tummy-touching was the primary reason, either.
However, different people have different tolerances for touching. I’ve mentioned a number of times that I do not want ANY touching whatsoever outside of my closest family. I detest even the casual touch of a hand on my arm to get my attention but I grit my teeth and put up with it because it’s a cultural norm and expressing how much I detest it would be considered an over-reaction. It makes my skin crawl when I’m at work and some very kind, very sincere old biddy KEEPS TOUCHING ME because she thinks it’s friendly or something, leading to comical scenes with me continually backing up while pursued by some cane-using senior citizen.
Why I am so loathe to be touched, why I consider it an unwanted intimacy, has a lot to do with cultural upbringing, of course. As I said, I grit my teeth and put up with certain forms of it because of norms in greater society but I do not like it. The fact my skin is also hypersensitive and easily irritated by scented soaps and such also makes being touched by a stranger difficult - I never know if I’m going to get a rash from it, or if a current rash is going to be made worse by it.
The point is, not everyone regards “tummy touching” as harmless or of no consequence. I, personally, would find it an unacceptable intrusion and I would not hesitate to express my disapproval of such. No, it’s NOT OK to touch other people without permission, even if it’s not on a level of assault.
But it isn’t just an unwanted belly pat, is it? It’s everything. The unwanted belly pats, the baby latching on to your boobs, the complete lack of privacy you get in the hospital, the lactation consultants, the fact that your body isn’t your own for way more than nine months. I haven’t heard the end of moms complaining they get no autonomy for years. I was no different - clinging to my mother every second of the day.
To reduce it to a few “unwanted bellypats” I think is not really the right way to put it.
OP: …there was this quote from Amateur Barbarian:…
<Discussions>
After a serious lack of corroboration and considering the quote source, I wouldn’t even rule embellished out of the realm of possibilities. I am pleasantly surprised though that he quoted a ‘friend’ and not his wife, Morgan Fairchild.
I’m sure for some women the experience of pregnancy, childbirth and childcare is an utter nightmare and they hate every moment of being a mother. But it’s still somewhat* a matter of perspective. You might say “your body isn’t your own way for more than nine months” and I might say “Wow, this is so cool that my body is actually capable of growing a whole new human being!” Both of us are correct.
*I say “somewhat” because of course there are situations where a positive perspective isn’t going to overcome problems - severe morning sickness, pre-eclampsia, premature birth, a child with physical and/or intellectual challenges, etc.
You’ve clearly never come across massage tables with built-in bidets under the face cradle. Provides thorough nasal lavage as you’re being massaged.
Some also have thick strong nylon mesh further down from the face cradle so the rinse is continued below the chin to facilitate the popular " Lavage/ Massage/ Decollétage " treatment.
I really wish you would stop putting words in my mouth. I never said that even the mothers who have lost all bodily autonomy hated every memory of it. It’s not wrong to complain about all that and still love being a mommy.
Jeez, really? My wife’s (male) masseuse massages her whole body. Well, I don’t know if he touches the girls, but he definitely digs into the booty. Same thing happened to me when I was massaged by a female student who was a coworker. In neither case was there any erotic subtext.
Given that the gluteus maximi are the largest muscles in the body, I can’t see how a decent professional could skip 'em.
I didn’t claim you said that. ****I myself ***** said:
[QUOTE=CairoCarol]
I’m sure for some women the experience of pregnancy, childbirth and childcare is an utter nightmare and they hate every moment of being a mother.
[/QUOTE]
And I believe what I said. There are indeed “some” mothers who are desperately unhappy and hate every moment of it. A lot of them probably never wanted kids in the first place but got trapped by societal expectations, an unwanted pregnancy with no option to abort, etc.
Are we cool now? Really, I bear you no animosity. It may surprise you to hear this, but I was childfree by choice until age 39 and only changed my mind due to some weird, very personal circumstances that only 4 people know about. Frankly I was convinced up until then that being a mother would be nightmarish - and at some points in my life, I’m sure it would have been.
Even though I obviously changed my mind enough to get pregnant, I was still shocked at how much fun it was and how little I minded all of the supposedly horrific problems of belly poking, child clinging, lactation-consultant-boob-grabbing, etc. Perhaps I’m motivated to share a “childbearing isn’t all that horrible, really” perspective because I was someone who didn’t believe it. And for the record, this paragraph is not trying to imply anything about what you think. It’s all about me, okay?
Now, if you want to find something antagonistic in my post and respond accordingly, I apologize in advance for not making it clear that I am not trying to be nasty. I’ve read a lot of your posts over the years about your feelings on family and childbearing and a lot of it resonates with me. So … peace, okay?
Nitpick: masseur.
[ is this where we give Carol and 'Mika some pillows? ]
Please don’t make us touch each others’ breasts :eek: :eek: :eek:
Playing this week at the Cecil Adams playhouse
TENDER MERCIES
starring
CAIRO CAROL
Massage therapist.
Depends on the context. More and more, “massage therapist” is reserved for a professional with many more hours of training and/or practice than usual, and who typically does (or is competent to do) medical massage therapy.
Massage practitioners who do feel-good massage (like in the day-spas and mud bath places) don’t need to have that level of training or experience and their more common professional title these days is “Massage practitioner”.
I got my CMT (Certified Massage Therapist) certificate a few years ago before that distinction was very well settled. Actually, with just 100 hours, there’s no way I could really be called a “therapist”. 500 hours is the more usual professional course now, and that gets you to be a “practitioner”.