How about a modicum of respect, or even just plain old courtesy, politeness?
Would that be too much to reasonably expect?
You know the same stuff that women expect and even demand.
The same stuff that women expect as their due.
Would that be too much to ask ?
On another note.
Seeing as we are all potential rapists, and just all round awful people, and not to be trusted, do you really think the best course of action, to ensure your safety, is to antagonize one of the ravening beasts?
You know instead of taking one minute out of your o so busy social schedule and saying no in a polite fashion?
Being afraid that the rejected man will stalk/rape/kill you is only a teeny tiny part of the problem. The biggest problem is just the negative reaction that you get when you say “sorry, not interested”. It never, ever ends then and ends well - ever.
Not once in my life has the man said “oh, ok thanks and have a nice evening then” and then happily walked away. It’s always “why not” or “come on”. Mostly the reply is something like “your loss you fat, ugly bitch”. Or “something, something bitch”. They always end with “bitch”.
Sure, it’s not being raped or murdered but being called “bitch” for no reason really puts a damper on your day. And when some stranger who’s trying to impress you calls you “bitch” you really have to wonder if anything else is going to happen.
Ladies, have you ever had a man politely and happily accept your rejection?
Christ almighty. What a nasty thing to say. And so in keeping with what so many dudes do: intimidate women into thinking that their safety depends on being nice to guys who are being awful.
Way I see it, if you as a dude try to be friendly to a woman and she treats you like a creep, there are three possibilities:
If you decide to make some sort of point about how a really bad dude would fuck her up for her rudeness, you haven’t turned into a really bad dude, but you’re a pretty fuckin not so good dude at that point.
Yeah, this is pretty messed up, man. You do hear women saying that when they say “no” in a polite fashion, the guys get all hurt and sometimes dangerous about it, right? You hear that, right?
So, here’s the thing. I’m actually one of the women who DOES talk to strangers. I’m gregarious, and I’m usually happy to listen to someone’s story to pass the time. So I have half a dozen “commuting buddies”, who are random people I met while waiting for the train. They’re all men. At airports, if my flight is delayed, I often find myself chatting with some stranger, sometimes a woman, but more often a man. And when people hit on me, I generally tell them I’m married, or monogamous, or straight (depending on the person hitting on me.) I don’t just ignore them and slink away. And I HAVE ended up friends with randos I wasn’t interested in dating. I’ve met some very interesting people who were trying to pick me up.
But both of you trigger my “creep” sensors, and I would avoid talking with you. You have some weird misogynous chip on your shoulder, and it’s evident through the internet – I’m sure women sense it in real life, too.
Try reading for comprehension. One of the first things i said was that most men aren’t predatory or creeps. But if you want to get all huffy and offended, knock yourself out.
Sure being polite is (believe it or not) my first reaction. I’m a helluva nice broad most of the time. And at my age, I don’t face this problem anymore unless we’re talking about an escapee from an institution or someone who is approaching levels of intoxication that require stomach pumps.
Like Puzzlegal, I’m one of those people that start conversations with complete strangers. In bars, depots, grocery stores, whatever. And, yes, I’ve had some people tune me out, ignore me, even been told to get the fuck away from them. I’ve been embarrassed and misunderstood. And my observation remains the same: no one is owed an explanation of why the other person decides not to engage in conversation with you. They don’t have to take refuge in the bathroom or make up imaginary boy or girl friends. It’s nice to be polite. But i take a strong stand against the idea that a woman should always smile and make up stories to sooth some random guy’s feelings in order to be polite.
And there are days and approaches where a raised eyebrow and a shake of the head are as polite as it’s going to get.
I’m currently in college if that changes anything.
However, that comment about us being potential predators was too far IMO. Now, I’m not creepy at all: I don’t talk too much at parties or act weird, yet I would strike up a random convo with girl, depending on the situation: Like a quick convo in line for the bathroom or if the party was too crowded & I happened to be right next to a girl. I drink, dance a little, and enjoy the overall scene without hitting on anyone. I stick to simple conversations only. Furthermore, I have nothing better to do on a Friday or Saturday night, so why waste it all on video games when I could potentially meet some new friends?
You see, it’s always 50/50 with women, they either think you’re cool or creepy, depending several factors. I also have some issues with social skills & communication here & there, which leads to some mixed reactions.
Complaining about women = a nice guy vibe: We’re told just to get over it & deal with it. I just want to meet new people, yet I don’t believe in hookups. It’s also crazy to believe that I sound so creepy on here. I just wanna enjoy my youth before it’s gone. Then, I’ll be able to meet some “mature” women/people in the real world instead of women who overreact over the simplest of things: Just because I made her feel uncomfortable in public for no reason at all.
Overall, even though I received some feedback, I always had an idea of how women dealt with men out in public, but now, I completely understand, sorry. Some men just make it worse when they won’t take No for an answer. Now, my reaction is quite simple: You had a chance to create to a possible friendship with me, but you weren’t interested. Moving on…
On an extra note, I don’t mind talking for a “few minutes” either…
Jesus.
You’re the knob who walked up to to a complete stranger and interrupted them. If you can’t handle the possibility of an impolite “fuck off”, then maybe chatting up random women isn’t your speed.
I used to be a bartender. About twenty years ago, it was early on a Saturday evening, and we were very slow. There were a couple of tables occupied by two or three people and one of two people by themselves. Maybe twenty altogether and it just so happened that all but two were women. This guy in his twenties walks in and he’s wearing an army helmet. Here gets a beer and i watch him go from woman to woman trying to start a conversation. Most of them waved him away. A couple just ignored him. So he comes up to the bar and tries to buy me a drink. “No thanks, man.”
" So what do you like to do on a Saturday night? "
“You know, I really don’t want to have this conversation.”
He downs his beer and heads for the door, the handle of which is a baseball bat. He grabbed it and turned back to me. “I know why this bat is on the door. This is a strike out bar.”
I got a pretty good laugh out of that. I felt kind of sorry for him and he wasn’t rude about being turned down. But obviously going up to each woman in the bar, one after another while wearing an army helmet? Yeah, the alarm bells were ringing loud for this one.
Have you read any of the comments we’ve made?? If you have, you’ve seen several women here say they have no problem striking up conversations with men they don’t know. I’m another one. These are in situations where we feel safe. If you’re not getting polite conversation, it’s YOU. YOU are making the woman uncomfortable. But even if you think you aren’t, no woman owes you anything. Not one thing.
Bolding mine.
You say you’re not at all creepy, and that it’s crazy to think you sound creepy; but you add that your communication issues and social skills lead to mixed reactions, and that you make people feel uncomfortable — such that people who either think you’re cool or creepy react in ways you think are overreactions. (If you did seem creepy, the reaction would presumably be appropriate; but you don’t think you do.)
What do you think “creepy” means?
Why the hell do they owe you respect? Just because you are talking to them? What do you define as “respect” anyway? They don’t owe you anything, they can decline simply by not responding and it’s your obligation to not be a jerk about their rejection.
No one ever owes you respect simply because you approached them. If you demand or expect “respect,” just don’t approach women. It’s not that hard.
It would be nice if they wouldn’t laugh in your face, but again, as the person making the initiation, you take your chances.
When a telemarketer calls, are you under the same obligation? No, you can just hang up. You don’t have to listen to them, you don’t have to provide detailed answers as to why you aren’t interested.
This isn’t kindergarten, you don’t deserve a gold star on your forehead for the tiniest bit of effort.
You are obligated to not be a jerk if the woman isn’t interested in you. It just goes with the territory. If rejection is so scary, just don’t put yourself out there.
I used to be polite to telemarketers. Then I realized I was wasting both our time. Now I hang up on them. If I’m feeling nice, I say, “sorry, not interested” right before putting down the phone. Except for the ones trying to talk people into installing malware – those ones, I ask if their mother knows they are stealing from little old ladies for a living before I hang up. (They often reply, “fuck you”. They know damn well that what they are doing is wrong.)
yes, it tells me two things.
So, if women find you creepy, you are creepy. That doesn’t mean you are a bad person, nor does it mean you are likely to do anything morally wrong. But “creepy” is like “beautiful” or “funny”. It’s in the eyes of the beholder. You are acting in a way that many women find creepy. In your case, it’s probably just weak social skills. You can improve that.
I can see one example right here. Trying to start a conversation in a restroom line. You are both trapped there. She has no easy retreat. (Assuming she needs to use a restroom, which is probable.) That’s a little threatening just by itself. You absolutely have no right to impose yourself “for a few minutes” on someone who is physically trapped next to you, that’s extremely rude. And that’s definitely a situation where the “polite” way to say, “I’m not interested in talking you right now” is to just ignore you, or respond with a monosyllable and look away.
If the party is too crowded and she can’t easily drift off, the same principle applies.
I can be a pest. I do sometimes say something to someone next to me in line. And if they don’t reply, I shut the hell up, because they’ve just told me they aren’t interested in talking to a rando right now. And I’m a middle-agreed lady, which is a much less threatening demographic than “young man”. (And “threatening”, like “creepy” is in the eye of the beholder, and isn’t a moral judgement.)
My advice is to ask a friend to observe you, and give you unvarnished feedback about your approach. Ideally, a female friend, but a male friend who is successful chatting up women could help you, too.
Oh, and I’ve more thing. Sadly, looks are really important in the hooking-up game, especially among the young. And whole most healthy young women are attractive, many healthy young men aren’t. In college, some men haven’t “filled out” yet and still look like gangly kids. Some men are short, which unfortunately isn’t a sexy look too many women.
You can improve your looks, though. Lift weights at the gym to help with your musculature. Be clean, groom and dress well. You might not be able to raise your attractiveness to the point where most women find your appearance hot, but you can certainly get to the point where enough women do that you have a chance. And lucky for you, a man’s appearance gets less critical to his dating success as he gets older, and women get pickier about other stuff.
Also, thinking back to college, all the guys I met were:
In my dorm
In my classes (especially the discussion sections)
In clubs I joined
Introduced to me by other friends.
So those are places you might try to meet women. Classes and clubs are good because you have an obvious topic to start a conversation.
I don’t think I ever meet anyone at a party or other large gathering, because those were places I felt more defensive, having been an attractive young woman.
There is truth to this, but it’s not a point that should really be emphasized because even an extraordinarily plain looking guy (like me) can get past that filter 1) within an hour, and 2) without trying. In fact, only by not trying. IME, [not being a creeper] is more effective than [having the right look]. Looks are just a shortcut, but if you’re a jerk it’ll come out in fairly short order. The trick for plain dudes is to just be personable, available, and nonpredatory. Chicks dig that.
How ya doin’?
One technique I’ve used effectively when I’ve deemed a guy as being too persistent is to cheerfully say, “I hate to see you waste your time, so I’ve got to tell you I’m gay.” Reactions to that vary, but overall it pretty much stops them in their tracks. LoL