The thing I find interesting is that the guy is almost certainly saying this in an attempt to make these other women feel better (whether he actually read their statuses or not). The only way to make them feel better is to again focus on looks.
Not that I’m saying he’s lying. I’m pretty sure most men would say the same thing, as it’s been scientifically shown that women tend to think men prefer thinner women than they actually do. (Men usually pick the average body type, while women think they’ll pick the thin type).
You are focusing this as being about getting attention, but I don’t think that’s really it.
Sure, some women base their self-esteem on getting hit one. But most women aren’t as misguided as that. Even fairly level headed women have tricky ground to negotiate. It’s not about being vain or needing external feedback.
I think part of it is that our sexuality is directly tied to our sexual attractiveness. You can see it even in your comments- it’s posed as an either/or thing. Either you are a woman of substance with intellectual pursuits, or you are sexual. Either you are an older, refined woman, or you are sexual. Either you are a teacher, or you are sexual. The question people are asking is “Why can’t women move past sex and think about other things?” when in reality the question that bothers us is “How can I continue to be me- which includes being a sexual, sensual, desire-filled person- and also be all of these other things I am, and feel good about sex even though I’m not 20.”
There is no “I’m all business in the boardroom, then I go home and fuck my wife and that’s that” for women. Either we are sexy and business in the boardroom and then we go home and fuck our husbands, or we are matronly in the boardroom and…well, either its disgusting or its a joke. And yet-- we are sexual. Or sexuality doesn’t shut down with kids and wrinkles, but we are expected to shuck all sexuality out of our life the moment we are no longer attractive.
And it screws with your identity. As young women, we are so constantly defined by where we are in terms of beauty. It doesn’t matter if you are gorgeous or hideous. It doesn’t matter if you are preening bar fly or a headstrong intellectual who wears overalls and loafers…you are still having a relationship with beauty. It’s a part of existing as a woman. Just being in space as a woman is to be either pretty or ugly. There is no just existing unqualified by beauty.
So when that starts shifting and changing, it’s not just about saying “Oh, so sad I don’t get hit on at bars.” it’s a shift in your entire identity. It’s more gradual, but along the lines of how your identity and sense of self would shift if you came down with a permanent herpes outbreak…it wouldn’t just be like “Oh, so sad, ladies don’t think my dick is cute.” It’s along the lines of facing that you are up for a life of sub-ideal sexual interactions, feeling a deep conflict with your gender identity and what sex means to that, feeling embarrassed or apologetic about your sexuality and especially with new partners (which you may fear you will ever get), and always being aware that something is wrong with your sexuality- something that wasn’t wrong before, but now either counts you out or makes being sexual very complicated.
Of course in practice it isn’t that bad. But there are moments in that transition where you have thoughts along those lines. It fucks with your identity.
To all of the women who have been distraught over their weight/size, did it make you feel better or worse to know that some men are preferentially attracted to heavier women?
Well it helps a little. If I mention I feel like I’ve gained weight my SO punches the air a yells “more gracer for me!” It’s sweet and it lets me know he doesn’t care if I gain weight.
But as has been mentioned over & over in the thread: the pressure is not so much from the people who love you, it’s everywhere. It’s nice that there are people who think you’re beautiful the way you are, but it’s still just as hard to drown out the media and the people in the wedding dress shop.
ETA: I have never been distraught over my weight or size.
I was told over and over and over and over that I would regret it horribly. I never have.
Come to think of it, I never regretted skipping prom. Went to a concert with my boyfriend instead. Had a great time.
I don’t obsess over my weight, have never dieted, etc. - but the result is that I often can’t relate to other women, can’t contribute much to conversations about weight, clothes, makeup, etc. and it can be socially isolating not to participate in some of this toxic stew. So… damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
I agree with this. I get annoyed–though I hide it well, I think–when the women around me start kvetching about their weight and their looks. For SOME women, it’s a drumbeat that never stops. It’s all they can talk about…and you have to steer clear of certain conversational topics if you don’t want to record to start playing again.
Everyone has their insecurities, but for women, it’s almost seen as a given that they will have hang-ups about their looks. I get the business at work for not wearing make-up, for wearing pants that aren’t camel-toe tight, and not jeweling up. I know I can go overboard with the apathy and that I sometimes DO need some critical evaluation, but certain women have no problem openly saying, “If you did so-and-so, you’d be so much more prettier and feminine.” As if these are ideals that every woman aspires to (personally, I think I’m pretty enough) and this is something I want to hear in the workplace. I can’t imagine guys clustered around the cubicle chiding each other about not being masculine enough for wearing the “wrong” shoes. They may do the catty chitchat behind each other’s back, but not out in the open, so as to embarrass the “misfit.” I don’t know what’s that about.
That, too, is still having a looks-based preference. I don’t want anyone to like me more because I am chunky any more than I want them to like me less because of it. The only people I will give any time to are the ones who like me because of who I am, not what I am. That goes for friends and romantic relationships with men and women alike.
That’s the thing though. Many people are looking for a person to spend a lifetime with - and there’s very little about our lives as transient as our LOOKS. The hot cheerleader from high school is a dumpy mother of 4 in her 40s. The chubby girl from college is the healthy and successful lawyer at 35. We can gain weight, lose weight, cut our hair, get a tan, change our clothing style and have a facelift all in the space of a month. So you wanna tell me you like me for my looks? Pfft.
I have another perspective to ad, I think I’ve been pretty lucky with my genes but I never had the problem of excess weight - in fact when I was growing up the school nurse would send notifications to my parents that I needed to eat more. For someone very young (and it was way before anorexia was even talked about) it was confusing and I never really understood why the nurse would bother me about my eating habits.
As a teenager I was very active and athletic and I had a good self image - heathy but not over confident either. Later on, maybe in my early 20s I figured out I could get away with a lot of stuff my friends couldn’t just because I was beautiful. Now most women my age have started to gain weight and let themselves go yet I still get noticed… I work in a field that’s very masculine, 100% of my coworkers and 98% of my customers are male so I have noticed some advantages for being who I am.
I’m 5’8" and weigh around 125 pounds so that makes me quite normal - not skinny but not fat either and the years I’ve used my looks to get by easier have made me actually worry about the future. If I get wrinkles/fat/pregnant or whatnot I might have to start working harder to get my message through. Maybe my whole self image will deteriorate as a result.
For women it doesn’t matter what you look like, you have to face the fact that looks do define you in this world. How it affects you is totally your choice. Some people choose to weep over their fat and eat more chocolate, others change their looks because they want to and some are just fine how they are, fat or not. I wish I can be content with myself no matter what happens - fat people are beautiful when they have that look on them that they are happy in their body. I’m very happy with my looks now but you never know what’s going to happen in the future and no one should (have to) rely on their looks. It’s a confusing world for every girl growing up and you can only work with whatever you have.
Would you mind telling us your age or a range? I’m curious because of the parts above that I’ve bolded. I can’t reconcile them. Anorexia has been talked about openly in the media for probably more than 30 years. Even if you were 10 around the time the school nurse talked to you, that would put you into no pregnancy worries and wrinkle territory if you were young before anorexia was talked about.
ETA: Not that there aren’t many women into their late 40s and 50s without a lot of wrinkles. My mother just entered her 60s and could easily pass for her mid to late 40s.
Sorry, I’m around 30 now. I grew up in a village if that matters and I remember it clearly that I had never heard of or even thought about a medical condition that is related to “skinnyness”. Maybe my parents protected me from such hype.
Edit. Or maybe I was too happy living my seize the moment, happy go lucky days. I remember anorexia first entering my world of understanding maybe after 13-14.
That caught my eye because I am 5’8. That puts you at the lowest end of a healthy BMI for your height. Any lower you would be underweight. Glad you feel normal, but you are thinner than the average 5’8 woman. Seriously, you don’t feel skinny?
And there I go! Turning the focus on appearance.
Just awful. Sorry.
Believe me, I do feel normal now. I’ve been underweight most of my life and just hated the advice even random people gave me “just eat more”*. It wasn’t that simple for me since I could not gain weight no matter what and I got used to looking like a little boy with no curves whatsoever. I’ve never been a sucker for junk food or candy. At the moment, none of my bones are sticking out like before and I actually have boobs yay! So yes I do feel normal and feminine and I’m happy with myself!
*I guess same can happen in the opposite for fat people, randoms telling them to eat less.
Yes, I must guess because I would never say such a thing to another person and I have never been fat. Sorry, I’d speak from experience but I cannot :rolleyes:
I wouldn’t be surprised if us larger girls got the “eat less” comment less than she gets the “eat more” one, just because
Most people are overweight and
a. identify with the struggle to lose weight, so they know that “eat less” isn’t really going to be helpful
b. probably feel like it’s hypocritical to point out the mote in someone else’s eye while ignoring the beam in their own
It’s more socially acceptable to tell someone they are too thin than to tell them that they are too fat
Honestly, I think these women are trying to help you, it is just that their help is misguided. They think being prettier is your goal, because it it their goal. It is just like guys who think that the one and only thing any woman wants to hear is how pretty she is. Tell me how funny I am, damn it. "Cause I am hella funny.
Most compliments that I receive from my loved ones center around my looks. My family, my husband, my friends, they tell me that I’m beautiful, pretty, etc, as a way of expressing love and affection. It’s the same for a lot of women because, unfortunately, a woman’s worth in this society is still heavily based on her looks, so calling her beautiful is seen as a very high form of praise.
When shown a little girl, most bystanders will comment positively on her looks. When shown a little boy, most bystanders will expand the type of compliments to include intelligence, personality, strength, etc. A man’s looks are rarely considered unless he’s exceptional one way or another. This carries over through adulthood. I hang out on some mostly male message boards. Whenever a woman is depicted, even if the article has nothing to do with her looks, her physical appearance is always commented on. If she’s attractive, then the thread is full of comments about they’d ‘hit that’. If she’s not, then they act as though it is a personal affront to them that she’d show her face in public.
I do ignore the media as much as possible. I don’t usually wear makeup (even on first dates), and I focus on comfort versus femininity and style. I still enjoy being complimented on my looks by friends and family members. I feel good about myself when I feel pretty.
sven, that was a great post and I concur. It isn’t an external thing - or at least not completely. Its more complex and subtle and gradual and both more an less healthier than that. And you are too young for that much understanding of it
yay! So yes I do feel normal and feminine and I’m happy with myself!