I tend to hear two conflicting messages from women. The more frequent message is that women find it attractive when men express feelings.
But from time to time I also hear that men should never, ever express fear to a woman. Take drugs, sneak off to a shrink, call your mom, confide in a prostitute, but never risk telling your SO that you are scared. The most recent reference to this was on 24 last week, when Rena Sofer sneered at her husband for letting on that he’s jealous of his brother.
Maybe women only want to hear certain feelings, like: I love you…I miss you when you’re not here…
So, what’s the real story? What’s it like when your SO lets on that he’s scared?
My husband is a human being and has fears like everyone else. This I understand, expect and have nothing but sympathy, caring and respect for him because of it.
I didn’t see the show, but maybe she was sneering because his jealousy was stupid, immature and unfounded–not merely because he experienced feelings.
Look, if you’re looking for relationship advice from the entertainment media, you’re bound for disaster. Relate to women as a human being. She’ll probably expect this – and be sympathetic if she cares for you.
I have a hard time hearing people’s feelings at all, but I have to say I am more comfortable with a woman doing it. But I think that’s only because it’s more expected. It would be more of a shocker to hear it from a guy since they are much less likely to say anything, so perhaps that would exaggerate the problem in my mind?–like, it must be really bad for him to say anything. And then I’d panic.
Of course, lately it’s been my brother talking about his suicidal ideations, so take it for what it’s worth.
Well, to be honest it sort of depends what the guys afraid OF.
I have a friend that has a medical condition that was a real bugger to diagnose - while Drs were trying to sort stuff out he said he was scared. Cool - I guess you would be scared with some bizaro thing wrong with you.
However if a guy says “I’m afraid of losing you.” it comes accross as a little needy - it would really depend on context.
If a guy says “I’m terrified of little fluffy kittens, they make me cry.” I’m not sure how much sympathy I could muster.
I think when it comes to relationships, stereotypes go out the window. Men are human beings, they have feelings, they have fears. Any woman who has a problem with her SO’s HUMANITY is obviously insecure and needs to get a life. My husband can be quite emotional… I love him, my commitment is to help him through hard times. I would expect that he would be honest about his feelings. I would be offended if he wasn’t.
I agree. I really would rather not be with a guy who’s eyes water at a sappy Halmark commercial but showing emotion during life’s challenges is expected and certainly not unmanly.
I’m afraid of squirrels. Lemme clarify. I’m not deathly afraid of them, but they broke the deal many years ago. For some reasons, we live in a constant state of anarchy and we don’t like each other.
Our mothers raise us to be good husbands, not desireable single men. The bad boys of the world that women swoon over don’t think about flowers and candy until they’ve royally fucked up, but by then such a pointless gesture of apology is just a formality because women don’t fall in love with flowers or gifts or kind gestures. They want charming, self-assured confident men, not gestures of fear, desperation, worry, or jealousy. You cannot buy a woman’s affection any more than you can bore/emote/pity her into liking you. Do icons like James Dean, Sean Connery, Harrison Ford, Warren Beatty, Brad Pitt or any other hunk of the silver screen EVER apologize to women or tell them about their fears and insecurities? No, because they would immediately emasculate themselves.
The scene in Bedazzled which features Brendan Fraser as a sensitive, creative, artistic sap who writes poetry and cries at sunsets is a very funny example. His fantasy girlfriend is sitting there on the beach with him struggling to bring herself to break up with him just as another guy who is essentially a macho asshole comes and effortlessly walks away with her after kicking sand in his face. An extreme comedic stereotype, yes, but oh so true. It’s an evolutionary fact, and any women who don’t think so are lying to themselves, or are not in touch with their own nature. Women who like men that ‘emote’ either lack their own confidence and/or like to try and control a man’s emotions in an effort to sway the balance of a relationship. The whole 50/50 relationship arrangement wherein both sides freely exchange ideas and have an equal say in things is utter nonsense. Yeah, such 50/50 relationships do exist … they’re called “she owns you” relationships. Granted, there is a time and place for everything, but my point here is that what women really want is what I’ve described, and the kind of men who share their sensitive feelings assume a very different role in their lives.
Married couples are an entirely different animal because marriage requires a committment to communication in a way that doesn’t exist in unmarried couples and dating singles. Like I said, our mothers raise us to be good husbands, not desireable single men. We have all the time in the world to emote and share feelings after we tie the knot. Until then, men, grow a pair!
If he’s scared of something I’m not scared of, that actually makes me feel good about myself. I can comfort and reassure him in all honesty, and that makes me feel caring and strong, and I like that.
So, if he’s scared of losing me, or scared of a wasp in the house, I’m all: “c’mere sweetie !”. because I know he won’t lose me and I laugh in the face of wasps.
But if he’s scared of something I’m scared about too…, like going bankrupt, or that he won’t love me anymore if I gain to much weight… Or if he’s tired, just when I was dead tired as well and I was so hoping he’d be the one to set out the garbage…then I don’t have much patience for his emotions and I have to force myself to be open to them.
I also have to add that as a woman, it can be hard to recognize a man’s emotion as fear. I tend to think: " he’s angry" when in reality my guy was scared.
But he was nasty to her (not so much “I’m jealous” as “you’re a slut”) while he was “expressing his fear.” Plus, he’s an evil, terrorist co-conspirator - so Rena’s character does get a break.
But that’s part of the point - what fear is being expressed and what is the manner of expression?
I will admit, if it’s expressed badly (I am way more ok with an emphatic “I do not like fluffy kittens” than “Eek, a kitten!” screamed while jumping on a chair), I’m more likely say something out loud if the ailurophobic is male*, while I’ll just quietly lose respect for the woman on the chair.
*A quick internet search says that Napoleon, Alexander the Great, and Julius Caesar were all afraid of kittens. Perhaps saying something is not in my best interest after all
In my little world, men can be sappy when overwhelmed with happiness, men can cry when life sucks, men can be confused during unexpected circumstances, men can be scared when they ought to be scared.
However.
Men must be confident, they must have the will to persevere, but most importantly, they must be courageous.
Nothing I would not expect out of myself, actually.
What the heck are you talking about? Unfortunately, it sounds like you’ve only ever experienced high school relationships, and immature ones even for that. Women who like men who show feelings like real men, not macho silver screen stereotypes. 50/50 relationships are the ones had by people who have gotten past the need to impress each other.
Yes, they are … and as I said, the people who are past the need to impress each other are married, or well on their way to being so. Charm and confidence does not equate to open exchange of feelings, which is why I brought up the comparison to “macho silver screen stereotypes”. Having women want to know more about you is what creates attraction, not telling them everything they want to know exactly when they ask for it. The type of man who shares his fears with a woman probably assumes that because she’s a sensitive woman she’ll sympathize with him and develop a connection, when in fact he assumes a much different role to her … that of a crying shoulder or one whom she can take her drama to. I’m not talking about wasp phobias or a fear of heights, I’m talking about self-defeating insecurity. That’s fear, and that is what will lose the game for you faster with women that anything else in the world.
I’m looking at this from the perspective of a guy who goes into a situation with a new woman thinking “how can I make her laugh and want to know more about me?” as opposed to “how can I make her understand who I am and what I feel inside?”. One makes the woman the pursuer, whereas the other makes her the one being pursued. The second a woman starts feeling pursued in even a slightly needy sense will instantly disqualify the guy as having much appeal to her. I think you confuse being a “macho silver screen stereotype” with something else. Sinatra was renowned for sharing his mood indigo, but he was also a timelessly classy charmer. For every one of his blue tunes, there were two equally swingy ballads about being on cloud nine. There needs to be a balance and when it’s done right, it’s fun for the guy, and it’s fun for the woman. Expressing too much too early on to a woman will never build any attraction or affection on her behalf whatsoever.
It’s the same for me. Sure, there are times when it can be annoying. For example, a man who’s an incredible hypochondriac or so afraid of rejection that he drives people away before they can reject him. But that’s just as annoying in women.
I don’t often find men willing to discuss their fears. As a result, it means a lot to me when they do. I know they trust me enough to share that with me, and that makes me feel very special.
Sometimes, it can be endearing. My boyfriend has an irrational fear/hatred of birds: big scarey raptors, little chirpy chickadees–they’re all dreadful creatures to him! I find that awfully cute!
Sounds like the big question so far is: What kind of fears? Good question.
I’d say there are two kinds of fears I’m wondering about. Jealousy is the first. Getting back to the Rena Sofer scene, I can see where she was upset by the contempt, but she said something like “Insecurity in an adult is unattractive,” not “Suggesting that your wife has been sleeping with your brother is unattractive.” And, of course, I’m not taking advice from unknown script writers (although I frequently follow advice from unknown dopers) but I’m suggesting that someting on a popular TV show might reflect prevalent thoughts in a culture.
Also to use jsgoddess’s term, one might be married to an “agoraphobe.” What if you want to go away for the weekend but he’s always too anxious about leaving home so you never get to do anything? What’s that like? Is it a turnoff?
I don’t mean this in any sort of argumentative way. My experience is exactly the opposite. I’ve never been depressed by any of these. What is it that depresses you (assuming you’re still reading this one)?
The omnipresent idea that men have to be strong and manly and if women say they don’t have any problem with men expressing fear they are lying and delusional, etc. The stereotypes, the generalizations, the rigid gender roles, they get trotted out every single time, and those of us who don’t fit are told with either really do fit and just don’t know it or we’re lying or deluded.
The fact that such a thread has to be started is depressing. I’m not complaining about your starting it, just frustrated that it’s even an issue for people.
Sorry about that, I guess I haven’t read that many threads that closely. I had no idea these were old themes, but I’m not surprised, since I’ve read such a small percentage of SDMB. Anyway, I, for one, will accept at face value pretty much anything posted here. I’ve always hated it when people tell me that I’m not experiencing what I say I’m experiencing.
It’s always an issue when I post anything here, either starting a thread or adding a comment, that what I say has already been overdone. But I’m sure not going to say it causes me anxiety
