Generally, if I’m talking to someone, if they tell me their problems and if I don’t think about it and offer a solution, it means that I don’t give a damn about them or their problems. If someone trusts me enough to say that they’ve got a problem, I will in most cases go out of my way to think about how to solve them and offer my help in whatever capacity that I’m capable. Although I rationally understand empathic listening, having someone get angry at me going out of my way to offer them help or support is viscerally insulting to me. It feels like ingratitude. If they don’t want my help, there’s plenty of ways to politely decline.
If someone tells me right off the bat that they just want me to listen, I’ll certainly suppress my instinct to offer help, but it won’t be particularly pleasant for me. If I say that I think a particular course of action might help, it’s usually because I’m willing to help contribute to said course of action. I don’t just say that “Oh, do this that and the other” and then look at the other person as if wondering why they’re still there.
In fact, someone telling me about a problem that I can do nothing about is almost painful to me. It makes me very uncomfortable, and I have a pretty strong urge to ignore it, even to the point of ignoring the person! The worse the problem, the stronger the urge. I won’t do that, of course, but I’m not going to enjoy dealing with that person, and thinking about the problem.
The safest approach is assume someone (male or female, really) is looking for empathy rather than advice. You know it’s the latter when you say “Wow, that sucks” and the reply is “Yeah, but what am I going to do about it?” If your girlfriend isn’t asking you questions - what would you do? what should I do? did this ever happen to you, if so what did you do? - she’s probably not asking for answers but just venting.
I don’t want to speak for all women (standard disclaimers apply here), but imho, you can almost NEVER go wrong by giving loving support. With me, I will always love and appreciate hugs and affection. Other women might be more reticent and prefer kindly words and looks. I’d venture to bet that with most of us, even IF we’re looking for help and advice, will love you for giving us that love, attention and empathy first.
To give it a logical spin, it’s the way our wet-ware is wired.
I am not. But I love several. My father the engineer has in his age come to terms with the fact that other people (like me) are very odd and graciously accomodates them. My husband the engineer and physicist (talk about a double freakin’ whammy) is still working on it.
One time his boss planned a lovely vacation to Mexico for the whole team and their families. My husband accepted for himself and declined for me and the baby without asking me. I was beyond furious and he couldn’t figure out why. Here was his reasoning: “I knew you would in the end decline after thinking about it and trying to arrange things and making a big to-do so I just saved you the emotional turmoil”.
The truly infuriating thing was that he was of course correct; it was not possible for me to go with the baby at that time. But that’s not the point. For him it is the entire point and while he has accepted on my word that this is nto a good way to proceed, he still does not really grok why. I suspect he considers it a quirk of my personality which must be accomodated in the interest of keeping the peace.
Made me want to go even though it was impossible, it did.
Why do engineer types so often marry prcess-oriented types anyway? It imploded in my parents’ marriage; in my own we seem to complement each other just enough that it’s only an occasional issue.
I suppose it’s the same dynamic as why spenders seem to marry savers.
I have to disagree with you here. Most women I know wouldn’t “test” a boyfriend or husband - in any way. Not only do you unfairly set someone else up for failure, you’re also setting yourself up for disappointment that way.
Based on my personal experience, a lot of women don’t want to ask specifically because it could be seen as being needy or overtly setting the tone for a conversation, something that a lot of us have been trained is rude. Plus, many women perceive telling someone explicitly, “Hey, I need you to say X/do X” is scripting the conversation, too demanding or too close to begging, something they don’t want to do. It’s taken me a while to realize that my husband is literal, I’m not, and if I need something, I should say so before things get ugly or I get huffy and feel even worse than I did at the beginning.
So it’s not a test - it’s more of a mindset. I don’t want to be seen to be clingy and needy and demanding, but calmly telling someone what I need isn’t any of those things. It’s quite the opposite and the most likely behavior to get what I’m looking for, whether that’s a sympathetic ear or clean dishes.
I’m female and i have been surprised many times at some reactions. I always tend to answer in combination: validation of feelings that they are experiencing and give advice (or gentle nudges). The person in question gets a little huffy, be it male or female.
Maybe i am not a good listener as i have thought, but in a conversation where you use the words to the effect of “what am i doing (or happening) wrong/ what you think i should do” and don’t like getting advice, i mean what the hell?
I can simply just close my mouth and nod, it’s hard when by some unknown force i’ve been dubbed a therapist
I hope i didn’t sound prissy, nor that i insulted anyone.
I agree with overlyverbose - it’s hard to request empathy, love, and support explicitly. It’s akin to planning your own surprise birthday party in minute detail and then handing the plans to your friends. The whole point of the enterprise is to feel that the other person loves you and feels bad that you feel bad. If you tell him, “I just want you to say, ‘Oh, that must feel terrible, I see how you are so upset,’” what is the point? Scripted responses lack the genuine connection that is sought.
Now, that is an extreme example to make a point. When I tell my husband (also an engineer by training), “I just want support, not problem solving,” I’m not scripting for him, merely providing important guidance for his genuine response. However, as overlyverbose said, the point is that women may have a “scripting” feeling even providing that much guidance, at least until we get used to it.
FWIW, I do some counseling for women, and one of the things they hammer into our heads (even though most of us are women ourselves) is to mirror feelings before jumping into concrete information and solutions. Having someone say, “I hear you. You are at the end of your rope. We have all had that feeling, and it is so hard to get through,” is really invaluable when someone needs help with a tough situation. At least in my experience.
Although I’m largely “feminine” in how I want people to react, I have had almost this exact conversation with my (male) best friend. When I read this, I laughed out loud at how uncanny it was.
