. . . but they got to the semis in 1930, and I doubt whether anyone either side of the great divide will ever forget Belo Horizonte in 1950.
As someone in the Daily Telegraph said today, “England will claim, as they have done for every tournament in recent memory, that they are the best-prepared side ever to have left these islands. Holland will be every neutral’s choice to win [this, of course, before they were drawn in the Argies’ group], especially next year with the tournament in Germany”.
Nations that the U.S. has beaten in the World Cup
Belgium, 1930
Paraguay, 1930
England, 1950
Colombia, 1994
Portugal, 2002
Mexico, 2002
But the Americans might have a chance at Ghana!
So what? Four years ago, France didn’t make it out of its group. Does that mean the French should believe they can’t have a chance of winning it all? In 1994, the English didn’t even make it to the dance. Holland didn’t make it to the finals last time out.
Past performance is not an indicator of present abilities for any team. The US team has played well, and it did beat Mexico in 2002, beat them at home this year, etc. Italy qualified out of a relatively easy group (sorry, Scotland, but it’s true!), so they haven’t been solidly tested, and their more recent World Cup Finals performances haven’t been stellar.
And let’s not forget the Americans probably could have won the game against Germany in 2002, though I’m not one of the people who shrieks about a missed penalty call. So I have confidence that we will surprise with our result.
Of course, if Keller gets injured, all bets are off. :eek:
I’m just a very skeptical American soccer fan. I expect the worst and usually get it.
In some respects, I understand that. But don’t you think there are Italian and Czech and Ghana fans going “damn, why did we get USA instead of Saudi Arabia?!?”
We (the US) may not have a world soccer power pedigree, but we’re a pretty damn good team.
I was gutted when we got Sweden in our group, we never seem to be able to beat them, hopefully things aren’t made even worse by Sven’s divided loyalties :shock:
Overall it looks like we are in for some absolutely amazing games of footy next summer, I for one can’t wait for it to kick off.
I can’t picture an Italian fan being worried about the U.S. They should be slightly concerned, but I can’t imagine they would worry that much. Who knows, maybe Italian fans are naturally pessimistic.
The U.S. has never beaten Italy or the Czech Republic. They are 0-3-2 alltime against Italy and 0-1 against the Czech Republic (actually Czechoslavakia at the time.) The U.S. and Ghana have never played at this level.
The U.S. is improving faster than any other team in the world. They didn’t qualify at all between 1950 and 1990. They were awful in '90. Not a whole lot better in '94 and they played below themselves in '98. In '02 I read several European prognostications that pegged them to be the worst team in the entire field. But they weren’t, of course. The team this year is better than the one from '02. The team they will bring in '10 will be better than this one. The young players coming up are quite good (and not just Ado).
Nevertheless, they are in the group of death. Sure Argentina and Holland are good, but so what? They both qualify. Nobody great gets eliminated. In this group one of the world’s top 12 ranked teams will go home. Ghana is probably the best team in Africa as well. Even if the U.S. sneaks in with a second-place finish they will likely get Brazil in the second round. It should be a short cup I’m afraid.
Italy and The Czech Republic will be playing virtual home games vs. the U.S. I wouldn’t be surprised if their fans outnumber Americans at the games by 20-1 or more. The U.S. does have the advantage of expectations though. The Europeans will talk about how they won’t be underestimating the U.S., but let’s face it, they will expect to win and would be devasted by a loss to the Americans. Italy and the C.R. have already been installed as heavy favorites to qualify from this group. The U.S. is a 7-1 long-shot to win the group (at a European book site). Italy is 3-19 to qualify. I think the pressure is very much on them.
Thirty-one teams in this tournament carry the hopes and dreams of their nations on their shoulders. The U.S. team is under no such pressure.
I bet the T&T fans are just happy to be there. Angola probably has low expectations, but they got put into a group with Portugal and I’m sure that that match has the potential to be very, very, very ugly.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a huge US presence at that game. Also, it is quite possible that the German residents of Kaiserslautern would also root for the Americans in that game. About a quarter of the Germans in Kaiserslautern are employed by the US government in some fashion, so they might swing that way.
I would go if I were still here at that time, that’s for sure…but, I had BETTER be back in the US with my wife by June 17. That’s all I have to say (I’m supposed to already be there, but I’m held for stop loss).
But is USA ranked higher than Italy? Hasn’t Italy been underachieving for years?? I don’t follow that closely, I don’t really know what these FIFA rankings are based on.
I’d love to see that US-Italy game.
I think Europeans are genetically hard-wired to underestimate Americans in soccer. Not saying we are going to beat the Czechs or the Italians, but I can guarantee that they will play against the USA as if we were the Faroe Islands Old Timers Squad. If we end up even taking a point, its ritual suicide all around.
I guarantee that Italy v. USA will be a much better game in 2006 than it was in 1990. And the USA v. Czech Republic game will be different simply because both teams are much better than they were in 1990.
Um, by the way, anyone who is casually dismissing the Serbia and Montenegro team is being stupid; that’s Yugoslavia’s core with some very good players. They finished ahead of Spain in their qualifying group. That Argentina - Holland -Serbia group is going to be a tough battle. I have to pity poor Côte d’Ivoire.
Boy did Germany get the bunny draw. :dubious:
I wouldn’t bet that way, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if either Argentina or Holland did not qualify out of their group. More likely Argentina because of playing on European soil. And Argentina are a very good side right now. It’s just a tough, tough group. I think Cote d’Ivoire will surprise one of those two with at least a draw. And I agree that the Serbs are a very tough team. I was surprised to see them go in the “special pot”, but I think that’s just FIFA’s strange way of ranking teams. If I were choosing, I’d much rather play Poland, Sweden, Swiss, maybe even Spain in the first round. And France looks eminently beatable coming in.
As for comparing USA vs Italy or Czech(oslavakia) Republic of 1990… that was fifteen years ago. Maybe there’s a goalie who was on the teams back then. USA has really improved in the defensive part of the field, although they struggle to find a quality leftback. The midfield and finishing are the suspect pieces, although they do have some potential there.
I’d love to see a poll of non-Americans on their chances of winning their group. I’d bet that you’d get no more than 5% support of that outcome.
The only reason that would ever happen is because Americans in general don’t care enough about football to warrant travelling such distances. You can be damn sure that Brazil will snap up every ticket offered to them and as many as they can buy off e-bay despite having to travel further than the U.S.A… The distances a country’s fans need to travel generally has no effect on the number of fans that travel, they still sell all of their alloted tickets and have scores of fans looking for touts outside games and many many more scattered around local bars, travelling there just to be part of the event without even buying tickets.
I would be shocked and dissappointed if U.S.A. doesn’t fill every one of the seats they are given.
It’s VERY difficult to get tickets for this World Cup if you’re a USA fan. There just aren’t enough to meet demand. All of the USA tickets will be taken, hopefully (but not necessarily) by hardcore USA fans. What WON’T happen is for Americans to fly over “on spec” and hope to get tickets somehow. That’s where the Europeans will have an edge.
Also, in my experience, it’s a lot more common to cheer against the USA than for them. Particularly with the current political climate. In Incheon against Portugal there were roughly the same number of Portuguese and American fans, but the entire stadium was wearing Portugal colors. Why? Because 90% or so of the stadium was filled with Koreans wearing Portugal gear. I don’t think these were Koreans who actually loved Portugal so much. I think it was the Korean face saving effort. They did cheer for Portugal, sadly for them. Similar at the Poland game (the Korea game was authentic and a bit intimidating). Same thing at Lyon in 98. Certainly more Iranians than Americans in attendance, but most of the people cheering for Iran were French who were more about cheering against the USA than for Iran.
I expect more of the same in Germany, although there will certainly be plenty of Italians and Czechs in attendance. I’m sure there are a decent number of both living in Germany, not to mention those that will travel the few hundred kilometres to see their squad.
I don’t think many Americans would pick the US to win the group, either. I do think, however, that the rest of the world would underestimate the Americans’ chances of making it out of the group stage at all.
Each football association is being given 8% of the venue’s capacity to sell to their fans so they will certainly all be taken by American fans for each of their games. However, my point is that it is no easier to get the “public” tickets for each game if you are Brazillian, Argentinian, English or Italian. Basically you have the same opportunities to get tickets as everyone else, the only area you lose out is in buying tickets from touts but other countries’ fans will travel further than American fans on the off chance. It’s all about passion for the game and American fans aren’t as bothered in general. You can’t say USA is getting a raw deal with the tickets, they are in the same boat as many other countries.
I take your point about neutrals supporting the team USA are playing, you aren’t too popular around the world but far stronger feeling is felt between European rivals, for instance, if England played USA the German fans would root for USA all the way. Many other rivalries exist in Europe that are far stronger felt than the dislike for Americans so the effect may not be as pronounced as you think.
Still, best of luck to America, I really hope you do well to further the growth of game in the USA. I heard a well-known American sports commentator (I forget his name) state that the reason American fans don’t follow football is because they realise they have very little chance of winning the World Cup and by and large American fans only root for their team if they think they will win. Perhaps if America do well next summer the popularity of the sport will take off.
I didn’t say that USA gets a raw deal (other than from our own governing association – USSF – more on that in a moment), just that MOST USA fans don’t have the time and resources to cross an ocean, take weeks off from work (the average yearly vacation here is two weeks), plunk down huge sums for tickets, accomodation, food, etc. Heck, the average American has never left the country. So it’s a long time before I see us dominating crowd support. I can see Germans or the French cheering against the English, maybe, but in general footie fans will support whoever we face.
Tickets from USSF went on sale officially at 1 pm yesterday afternoon. Only option was to place orders via fax or certified post. Fax machines were impossible to get through for hours. We joked they had one machine set up at 1200 BAUD. My fax got through about five hours and twenty minutes after official. Many folks gave up and sent FedEx/DHL/UPS parcels. Many others had faxes go through much later than mine. Only a few that I heard from said theirs went through earlier.
There is much wringing of hands over how many tickets were actually available. Most figure that USSF will skim about 50% of available tickets from the top for cronies, sponsors, whatnot. These are not typically dedicated fans but someone who says, “hey, WorldCup, that might be fun”. Nuremberg is the smallest venue (I think England also have a match there) and holds only 36,000+ seats, a bit more total capacity and a bit less (32k) is mentioned for Group Stages. This is the site for our last group match against Ghana. May be a fantastic place to see a match, but that limits the 8% to less than 3,000. Which leaves about 1,500 seats for the real fans. Not likely to make much of an impact. Gelsenkirchen is between 43,000 and 48,000, so maybe 1,000 extra seats for this one, although since they’re only selling complete group tickets I’d have to assume that the Nuremberg number will probably be the one dictating the number of seats alloted. Kaiserslauten falls smackly betwixt those two.
Also, FWIW, if I read the match schedule correctly, England and USA can only meet in the semifinals if they both win or place second in their groups, and only in the Finals if one goes through as a winner and the other second place. Here’s to an England - USA final!
So, as I was just checking venues and capacities and whatnot, I thought it might be interesting to take a very early guess as to how this might shake out, at least the groups and then a round or two. Of course I’ll be wrong, but a couple of groups will be shocking if they DON’T turn out this way:
Group Stages - First half
Group A:
W - Germany
R - Poland
Others: Ticos have an outside shot if they play their game. Ecuador travel extremely poorly, so would be surprised to see them win a game.
Group B:
W- England
R - Sweden
Others: Paraguay are the dark horse, but I just don’t see it happening. T&T will be happy just to be there. Top order could be reversed depending on goal differential in other games and assuming the two sides draw each other.
Group C:
W - Netherlands
R - Argentina
Others: the above (or reversed) is conventional wisdom. But CIV or S&M could also advance and I wouldn’t be surprised. Both might be a shock. This is one group you don’t want to face, regardless, in the second round, although maybe they’ll wear themselves down through the competition. Definitely a Group of Death.
Group D:
W - Mexico
R - Portugal
Others: top 2 could go either way, and it won’t matter, because they then face group C winner and runner up. Iran could be a spoiler, but more in determining who wins the group. I don’t expect much from Angola other than a fiery match with their former masters.
Second Round:
Germany v Sweden - Germany should be lightly tested and playing in front of a huge partisan crowd at the new Munich stadium (don’t tell me this is not arranged ), which is why England really need to win their group. Tough test for any visitor early on.
W - Germany
England v Poland - England have shown that they can handle the Poles. Crowd should be interesting, but England advances if they get this match, or any other Group A runner up.
W - England
Netherlands v Portugal - No reason Netherlands or any other Group A winner shouldn’t take this match.
W - Netherlands
Mexico v Argentina - Again, I see the Group C runner up as stronger than the Group D winner.
W - Argentina
Which sets up…
Quarterfinals
Germany vs Netherlands in Berlin. This could be the most anticipated match of the tournament. Can Berlin and the home field help overcome what is not a fair fight, on paper? I don’t think so, although I might be underestimating the effect of German soil. I think this is where German is exposed, although if this is Argentina or CIV or Serbia then Germany probably wins.
W - Netherlands
England v Argentina in Gelsenkirchen - Battle of the Falklands III. It’s truly to early to pick this match, and probably this isn’t even who is there. But what the heck. Both sides are cursing their luck here, but do you prefer to have Germany/Netherlands… maybe this isn’t so bad. Really, absolutely could go either way, but Gelsenkirchen is much, much closer to England, and the English fanatics find a way to get into this game. Gelsenkirchen is never the same.
W - England