We are getting into the final stretch for release of those two games. Checking EB Games website they are both due for release on November 15.
Now the problem is to decide which one I want to get (hoping Dopers can shed some illuminating opinions on this)?
FWIW I despise the levelling treadmill. The go out and pummel 500 rabbits to death then pummel 500 deer then pummel 500 Orcs, etc… I am currently playing EVE Online (pointed there by dopers a year or so ago) and love the real time based training system. The hardcore gamer who plays 18 hours a day progresses (in skills at least) no faster than the casual gamer. I recently beta tested Saga of Ryzom and found it to be pure treadmilling and it drove me nuts.
I tried playing Everwait (err…Everquest) a while back and the camping literal hours to get one thing likewise drove me up the wall and I quit.
Warcraft I have always found to be overrated. I liked the games and they were fun in general but not the end-all, be-all some seemed to think they were. I realize that WoW is perforce a different thing being an MMORPG but like Everquest I find its heritage not exceedingly compelling.
So why want either of these games? Well, I am hopeful that Sony (developers behind Everquest) have learned a great deal over the years and developed a game that avoids many pitfalls of MMORPGs. I know they are doing things like instanced dungeons (so only you and your group are in a dungeon so no worries about kill stealing and massive camping). I do not know what all else they have planned though.
For WoW while I was guardedly happy with the series I will say they had a knack for lots of little and fun touches. I would hope WoW might be similar and have that polish I have come to expect from them.
But in the end I have not tried either and reading up on them hasn’t helped overly much. So…any opinions?
WoW’s account servers are down until late Friday evening; the rumor is that when they come back up, Open Beta will begin. Given how long their closed beta has been, their open beta may be done in time for an 11/15 release date.
I am drooling over the chance to play WoW. I’ve played ten of the last eleven releases by Blizzard, and love their sensibilities for game design. I played the stress test for WoW, and was awed by how much fun it was.
Advantages for WoW:
-The questing system is great. It’s very easy to figure out who’s got a quest for you. Your quest log gives you both a quest summary and the full text of the questgiver, as well as the rewards you’re due if you complete the quest. I ended the stress-test with over a dozen quests in my log–and that was after I’d spent almost the entire week finishing other quests. They’re plentiful, varied, and fun.
-Combat is complicated and fun. I was playing a warrior, and an average combat involved five or more different maneuvers on my part. Had I spent more time grouping with other people, I would’ve been using a completely different set of maneuvers. And combat’s usually over fairly quickly.
-The graphics aren’t state-of-the-art, but they’re purty. And that’s far more important to me.
-There’s some tremendously cool locations in the game. While I was exploring the dwarven city of Ironforge, I wandered past the room full of giant vats pouring molten steel down into the forges, and found myself in a dwarven museum, with dinosaur skeletons, old war machines, and so forth scattered around. My brother told me about stumbling across the wreck of an old biplane, way up in the mountains. They put a lot of attention into the great little details.
-Levelling is apparently pretty quick, compared to other games. While there were a few annoying quests (you need five dinosaur eyeballs, but it turns out that only about 10% of dinosaurs have eyeballs, for example), there were overall few occasions where I felt like I was grinding.
I think it’s gonna be great, and am really looking forward to its release.
I was in the WoW stress test beta, and am currently in the EQ2 closed beta. Envy me
I second everything Left Hand of Dorkness says about WoW.
Here’s my opinions of the differences between the two games. Remember this is my opinion alone, and I can’t really tell you much about EQ2 because I’m bound to a nondisclosure agreement.
Both games are visually spectacular, but in very different ways. EQ2 is very realistic, and you have a ton of control over what your characters look like. Also, character animations are very, very good in EQ2 (characters look at each other when they talk, and emotes are very detailed). WoW is just flat out beautiful, in a dreamlike cartoony way. It’s very colorful. Ironforge, the WoW city LHoD mentioned, is flat out the best looking game city I’ve ever seen.
EQ2 has a fairly involved fight system. You have a lot of choices of what to do and when to do them. WoW is simpler and more direct. I worry that in the long run, WoW might become too simple and evolve into “Press key1, then key2, then key 1 again, then key3. Rinse and repeat for every fight.” EQ2 has me thinking and moving for every fight.
WoW quests make sense and many of them have a sense of humor. I never wondered where to go to finish a quest, and there were always hints in the quest journal as far as who to talk to, where to go, and what to do. EQ2 unfortunately follows EQ1’s lead of incomprehensible quests that force you to go to spoiler sites to figure out how to do them. OK, I need to kill 10 orcs. I’ve never seen an orc in game yet. Where do I look for them? No hints at all in the quest text.
Also, EQ2 quests are stupid at times. For example, a quest might have you collect 5 tokens that drop from rats and bring them to a guard. Why in the world do rats drop tokens, and why would that guard want them anyway? In contrast, WoW’s quests have you searching for so-and-so’s lost brother, finding out brother has been poisoned, then gathering plants in order to make an antidote for him. A little plot can go a long way, IMO.
EQ2 forces you to group more at lower levels, and levelling is slower than WoW. WoW is easier to solo in.
I’m planning on playing WoW, because my initial impression is that it’s not as hardcore as EQ2. After 3+ years of heavy EQ1, I don’t want another hobby that takes over my life, I want something I can do 2 or 3 nights a week and have fun at it. EQ2 feels very, very much like EQ1 to me, albeit a new and improved EQ1.
Long term, I have my worries about WoW continuing to be fun, because of the simple fight mechanics I mention above. But remember, I only played WoW for about 10 days - hardly enough time to know everything about the game.
WoW’s open beta should start any day now. I plan on being in it - anyone else?
Very interesting comparison! Obviously I’ll be in the Open Beta, probably as a Night Elf Mage (since I plan to play Horde primarily during the retail release, I figured I’d get a look at the other side). It’d be fun to do a doperguild, if other folks want to play Alliance.
I’m on the EQ II beta and I preordered, it is a beautiful world with lots of eye candy. But I stopped logging in 2 weeks ago, I seemed to be spending all my time grinding just trying to keep up with my guildmates and it was sucking up all of my spare time. IMHO it’s not for the casual player.
Funny you say that. I played the EQ2 beta pretty heavily when it first came out, but in the last couple days I haven’t at all felt like logging on. Not sure if it had anything to do with casual play or not, but I find myself not into it.
Then again, I have a very heavy case of EQ burnout at the moment, and it may just be that, and not the game itself.
Interesting stuff. So far seems like WoW is getting the nod but the comment about EQ-II being more harcore appeals to me. As mentioned I play EVE Online now and it is stunningly hardcore (but still approachable). EVE sadly lacks in game driven content but what it lacks there is made up by player driven content in spades. Recently the game experienced it first Great War (dubbed The Great Northern War) that ran for months. It was 100% player generated…the developers had zero to do with any of it and it was great. In short, I like a little more meat to my games.
What have either WoW or EQ-II done about things like kill stealing or someone pulling trains?
I know EQ-II is doing instanced dungeons where essentially you get your own private copy of adungeon to explore and do not have to worry about hordes of others camping something. On the one hand that is appealing but while it does answer a particularly vile aspect of MMOGs it also seems to lessen them a bit. It is fun running into others and helping or getting help in an impromptu fashion. Seems it will be lonelier in the dungeons with just you and perhaps your group.
I know WOW will have PVP, but you don’t have to participate if you don’t want to. I don’t understand exactly how it will work, but there are tons of articles on www.worldofwarcraft.com
In general, I’ll refrain from commenting on EQ II, as I have not played it, but I will say that, based on how SOE treated EQ I, I do not expect much out of the sequel.
I got into the WoW beta just after the stress test beta. The developers really seem to care about the players and the game. I played EQ for a few years, and the difference in mindset just makes a world of difference. Quests are more involving (even the FedEx and Gather-5-Rat-Tails quests), classes have a much better chance of actually being balanced, and the game is tailored to avoid or minimize common MMORPG problems: quest bottlenecks, kill stealing, camping.
But first, the graphics. SOE is always trying to push the graphical envelope. Normally, this is not a bad thing; everyone wants their shiny lights, textured armor, and glowy weapons to look good. However, in EQ I, this meant virtually every expansion after Velious required a video card and RAM upgrade. In addition, the graphics for previous expanisons quickly become dated.
EQ II looks to continue this grand tradition. The listed requirements are:
Since those are the requirements just to get it to run, I can’t imagine trying to play with 20, 30 or 60 other people packed together in a small space, unless you have a top-of-line system. Compare to WoW’s requirements:
WoW’s requirements are half (or less) that of EQ II’s. In my laptop, I have a 16 MB graphics card and 256 MB of RAM. WoW runs with very few hitches, and I believe that’s due more to my internet connection. Conversely, I have a hard time playing the original EQ. Plus, I really enjoy the cartoony look, because it’s easier to get things to look “right” and ages very well.
Now, on to gameplay.
Kill Stealing
WoW uses “tapping” to minimize kill stealing. The first person to damage a mob, gets the mob. The mob’s portrait turns gray to everyone else, to indicate it’s already been tapped. It doesn’t completely eliminate kill stealing (as in situations where two players are going after the same rare mob), but for your ordinary experience fodder, it works very well.
Camping
The number one reason for camping: rare loot. The number two reason: rare quest loot. WoW tries to minimize the former by spreading a lot of rare loot over a particular type of mob, rather than limiting it to one particular mob that everyone is always waiting for (although there are still some sought-after rare mobs). WoW takes care of the latter by spawing a copy of many quest items for each group member who has the quest. No more arguing over who gets the Dain’s head, or having group members skip out as soon as they get their quest item.
Instancing
I believe this is a necessary evil. As Whack-a-Mole mentioned, they take something out of the environment. However, having seen the insanity, backstabbing, and utter chaos that can result when two (or more) groups/guilds are racing toward the same goal, I think it’s worth the price. However, not all dungeons in WoW are instanced, and some dungeons have only parts instanced - a nice compromise, IMO.
Training
I haven’t seen much of this, really, but I haven’t spent much time in dungeons, either. It seems that after a mob gives up chasing someone, it runs right back to its normal path, pretty much ignoring everything along the way. I’d appreciate more information from those who have been in beta longer.
PvP
Haven’t done much of this, either, and that’s just the way I like it. On a normal (non-PVP) server, PvP is entirely by consent. You get “flagged” as PvP-ready by attacking the other side’s NPCs (sides are determined by your character’s race: Horde or Alliance), aiding a PvP-flagged player, or by using the /pvp command. The PvP-flag lasts for five minutes after the last PvP-related combat, and then you’re back to normal.
On a PvP server, there are areas marked “Alliance,” “Horde,” and “Contested.” You are PvP-flagged once you enter the other side’s area or a “contested” area, while you are safe in your side’s area unless you’re flagged for PvP (as above).
Best part about PvP: virtually no taunting by Bnet kiddies - the Horde and Alliance speak different languages.
Tradeskills No tradeskill failures and virtually guaranteed skill level-ups for appropriate level recipes. That alone is enough for most EQ veterans to take up tradeskills (ahh, blacksmithing - “Click Your Way to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome”).
Overall, I’ve enjoyed WoW. However, I do still have my doubts about the ease of leveling pre-30 (and even pre-40), the exp grind in the 50-60 levels, and the end-game.
I’m not sure which one I’ll go with. Probably WoW, because it will offer me more freedom as far as not sucking 40+ hours out of my life to have a good gameplay experience.
But on the other hand, Sony has learned an awful lot about building MMOGs. Blizzard’s never done this before.
And plus I’m in love with the idea of no race/class restrictions in EQ2. Ogre bards. Troll necros. Erudite shamans. I love unusual combos.
I’ll try both, but I imagine I’ll gravitate to EQ2.
But I stopped logging in 2 weeks ago, I seemed to be spending all my time grinding just trying to keep up with my guildmates and it was sucking up all of my spare time. IMHO it’s not for the casual player. 