read this and this for a more conservative estimate of the effects. Or, read this.
One thing is clear, there is no way a few hits of LSD caused serious brain damage. But, mix alcohol with downers, and it is very possible to cause all sorts of harmful effects.
Even the Alcohol and Drug Helpline has to admit you can’t OD on it. As for that last part about accidents, that goes double (or times 100) for alcohol.
IIRC, the damage was caused by an overdose of acid and I do know that that is what the family and Social Security consider a cause of his disability. I have heard his condition described many times as taking a major acid trip and never coming home.
It was not one dose, (and again, IIRC, it has been a lot of years since 1980) but many hits of acid dropped into the punch bowl. He had drank more than a few large Mason jars full of the punch so maybe the alcohol did play a part in it, however, he was a big kid who played football and was known to slam back a lot of booze on more than one occassion.
However, I admit that I have never personally seen his medical records and am just going on what happened at the party all those years ago and what I have been told by his family. I don’t have any cites or proof and really don’t know enough about acid (except for the few trips I took back in the day ;)) to insist that his brain damage was definitely caused by the spiking.
I think I still have the newspaper article that was written at the time that blames the spiking of the punch for what happened. I’ll see if I can dig it out this weekend.
In that case, let me correct you:
And I wasn’t using “we” in the royal sense.
I think the worse thing I’ve put in someone’s drink without their knowledge is store brand cola in place of The Real Thing[sup]TM[/sup].
Does this mean that we can communicate on this subject?
While it is not really technically possible to overdose on LSD it is possible to have a permanent trip from just one hit of acid. It really depends on the person, the strength of their psyche, whatever. To overdose in the technical sense it would take some inordinate amount of the actual drug (600 hits is what I’ve always heard) so I really think this is just a semantic argument over the term “overdose” at this point. I was a bit of an acid fiend a few years back (yeah I know all my detractors are gonna file this one away) and I did a lot of acid and I’m not permanently fried because of it and I did a lot, but there are people who did it their first time and went nuts and people who did it their five thousandth time and went nuts. I haven’t done it in years and if I did it tomorrow I could go nuts, regardless of how much I took, that’s one of the reasons I stopped taking it, because the Russian Roulette factor is just so high. So in otherwords, this kid is probably fucked up for life because of the acid and not the alcohol. From a legal standpoint poisoning the punch is poisoning the punch, but spiking it with acid is one of the most dispicable things that I can think of to do as it is so unpredictable and the results are almost never fatal, and can be permanent in the most bizarre horror story ways that one can think of. So while it wasn’t technically an overdose, I would say with 99% certainty, that it was the acid and not the alcohol that did that to him.
Erek
Well, I’m not going to fight with you on this subject if you are AFK for the weekend, so you have a good weekend too, and I hope that you see some nice leaf colors, wherever you are. They are just starting here in KS.
:bullshit:
If someone who is already disturbed does LSD it will not cure them, yes. As for the “permatrip,” chalk that up to an urban legend.
I think it is interesting that if this kid had spiked a punchbowl with alcohol ( which is IMHO a far more dangerous drug, but thats another thread), there wouldn’t have been the same enthusiasm for trying him as an adult. I think that the fact that it was pot (and not hash, like so many have posted) does contribute towards some posters strong feelings on this issue, regardless of their denial.
You can eat shit and die, loser. You can’t even get my sex right, and you’re taking my posts out of context?
You’re the brainiac that said us “yuppies” need to keep flying, so we don’t “destroy the economy”, right?
Disappear, troll.
Well, I apologize for thinking that you had done that without their knowledge, I’m glad I asked. When you said “party”, I pictured several other people besides your friends…whatever, I obviously read too much into your words.
Ahh, yes, I’m a troll because I don’t agree with you. Irrefutable logic…go you you beautiful androgene you.
Erek
Well, I disagree somewhat. It was the Pot that drew my attention, but I think mine and the expressed feelings of a few others here is that the punishment should be the same.
I almost get the impression that part of the argument defending the “kid” is one based on the stated “harmlessness” of Pot. And possibly, a reaction to what people who believe in a right to do drugs see as being part of the hysteria of the “war on drugs”.
FTR - I could care less if adults grow, smoke, buy, or sell Pot. For that matter, I really could care less if people want to drop acid, smoke crack, inhale paint thinner, or do a big greasy line of Ajax every morning. So long as it does not negatively affect my life in any way. I don’t do drugs myself, and never even experimented, but I don’t look down on people who have. I think doing them is mostly silly, but then again so is baseball IMO…
Pot may not be harmful, but it is not inert. It does alter moods and behaviors (or else why would people take it?) I think that I, and others, have a right to not have foreign substances put in our food and drink that are not normally expected to be in our food and drink, regardless of their lethality, without our knowledge. Pure and simple.
I’ve had things put in drinks that I was given. And it scared the hell out of me. Thankfully, I can read body language better than anyone else I know, and both times I knew something was up before I took a drink. Which was openly admitted. The first time, it was piss. The second time, it was claimed to be an “upper”, because people thought it would be funny to see me “freak out”. :rolleyes: And one time, I was given a slice of pizza with “shrooms” on it. Once again, my ability to read body language set off alarm bells, and I got them to admit to it. Scared the hell out of me still. And it’s one reason I really am bothered by the whole scenario surrounding this person who did this.
No apology is necessary, and thank you.
Just wondering why nobody else got a “major acid trip” from drinking the punch. Hmmm? I hate to break this to you but like my three sources at the top of page 3 say, acid wears off in a day or so no matter how much you take. If he took 300 hits (no way someone dumped that many in punch) he would come down. Like I said, LSD won’t cure someone who is already messed up. It is a convenient out for people who want to blame something other than the usual boring suspects: mental illness or chronic alcohol abuse.
I find it strange you don’t want to attribute any of this guy’s problems to the fact he was known to “slam back a lot of booze on more than one occasion.” I know it is legal and all, but you might want to do a little research. Like, for example, look at the cites I put on the top of page 3. If he was taking any number of over the counter meds. alcohol could cause serious problems. Not all of them go away quickly, if at all, either. Not to mention the horrible effects just being an alcoholic has on people. Geez, one time he takes LSD and that did it. But you say he slammed back a lot of alcohol as a defense. Er, if aliens examined this argumentation they would find it strange. I know alcohol is legal, but it is still the most dangerous drug out there. One high dose is fatal every time. It does “kill brain cells.” Moreover, it is addictive (LSD is not) and causes various disorders from chronic use.
I am no LSD advocate, but some of the crap I hear about it I think is masking just how dangerous some of our “accepted” drugs really are. Alcohol is one of the most deadly and has horrible synergy with a number of other things.
It was necessary for me, at least, do make it.
I have a question, though - what is Hanlon’s Razor?
I don’t disagree with what you are saying and I certainly don’t approve of what this kid did. But I have a hard time believing that people would be calling for him to be tried as an adult if it was alcohol that was involved.
Prison would harm this kid far worse than his prank harmed anyone. Was the potential there? I think to some extent, say for instance if someone who had never felt the effects of the drug tried to drive. But I could never justify ruining a kids life forever for a stunt that didn’t hurt anyone because I don’t believe that it was his intention to hurt anyone. Get them stoned? Yes. Stupid idea? Yes. Punishment? Absolutely. I wouldn’t be against suspension, probation, and community service. But prison? Thank god these people weren’t making the decisions when I was a kid.
Hanlon’s razor is a great piece of wisdom:
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity”
Or “to” make it…Jeeze…long week.
IIRC, using over-the-counter drugs contrary to the directions for same is a violation of some law.
Someone seriously brought up slavery in this thread? Please. I made the points, in order, that (a) some crimes are considered triable as adult crimes at less than the age of majority, and (b) that Jesus was a member of a society that considered him to be an adult when another poster stated that Jesus was an idiot juvenile at the age of 14. FWIW, Judaism still considers a male to be adult at the age of 13, IIRC.
Now you are full of shit, it’s not an urban legend it’s happened way too many times.
Erek
As a pre-emptive strike: Do you have a cite that it’s an urban legend? 
Erek