I think DataX nailed it here. On Ricks side it is possible that he never has experienced a relationship where the woman was so willing to be submissive and he is somehow getting off on it. They may reach a middle ground as they grow more accustomed to one another or Rick may continue to push his agenda to the point of abuse. Really a hard call without knowing the history of both of them.
For me, 1 and 3 wouldn’t be major red flags. Some couples are happy with one person being the breadwinner. And keeping up family appearances at church is a big deal for some people. Very much not my thing, and it would make me roll my eyes, but it wouldn’t set my alarm bells ringing.
2 and 4, though, are dodgy as hell.
To address all four of the original points.
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Isn’t much of a red flag to me. Plenty of couples have a joint bank account with only one income earner. In fact about half my coworkers have stay at home moms for a wife. Honestly, if she doesn’t have to work, who would blame her for staying home?
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Depends on how it was presented. If it’s “I don’t know why she’s spending all that money/going through all that stress/taking all that time away from the family for something she’s not planning to use at all”, then it seems reasonable to want to talk her out of it. If it’s “Women don’t need any education to raise my kids and fulfill my needs”, then it’s a big red flag.
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Seems more like a small red flag. It seems pretty normal to want your whole family with you for what is ultimately a social gathering. I’ve been invited to a few houseparties, and my wife is a bit of an introvert, so she tends to stay home. I frequently get “Where’s the wife? I was hoping to say hello at least”. And that can get kind of grating and sometimes I get odd looks when she misses three or four of those parties in a row. So I can understand wanting your whole family there.
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This is bizarro land, and I agree it’s a red flag. If it was the only thing you mentioned, I’d just chalk it up to Rick having odd ideas about fashion and Lori deciding this wasn’t a hill to die on. With the rest it seems awfully controlling.
So, taken individually I don’t actually see most of these as too concerning. It’s the combination of all four that would set off alarm bells. I’d fear that even if Lori says she’s happy, she’s only saying it because she doesn’t want to admit the truth to herself.
As for whether or not Skald should get involved: I’m reminded of a quote given to me in high school after a particularly bad breakup “Nobody can tell you that the relationship you’re in is a bad one. You have to figure it out yourself”. That particular girl, most of friends gave me the “are you sure about this dude?” speech and I blew it off. Only after we broke up did I realize they were all trying to look out for me and I was getting pissed at them instead. I think the same would happen with Lori. She would probably just get pissed at Skald for trying to interfere in her marriage, even if in the back of her mind she knows he’s right.
The two parts of your post that really seem over the top to me are “wouldn’t look right” and “began to suggest that I enact a similar rule for my wife before I suggested he shut his mouth.” Wouldn’t look right to whom? Why is he so obsessed with what other people think? And what right does he have to tell you how to treat your wife?
Those two things add up to "religious nutjob.’
I have no idea who the mother of Rick’s youngest is. I didn’t know he existed until he was four, and I had no idea until last weekend that Rick had two others. Which doesn’t mean much as we aren’t close, but my older brother, who is close to him, says the older two are news to him too.
I mentioned her appearance because of something she said to my wife–that a pretty, slender twentysomething has more options than a heavyset fiftysomething.
Oh, I’m not considering getting involved. I only care about Lori in an abstract sense, and they live a thousand miles away anyhow.
But even if neither of those things were true, I learned my lesson on this issue more than 25 years ago. When I was in high school, my friend Blondie had a boyfriend who slapped her around, so our mutual friend “Kennie” and I got mad and had a searching conversation with the dude. Did no good whatsoever.
I would tell Rick that he is a putz and I would not waste anymore breath on speaking with him.
I doubt that other men telling Rick he’s full of shit will have any effect at all. I’m guessing that Skald’s emphatic rejection of the no-pants suggestion didn’t faze Rick in the slightest. More likely, Rick thought that Skald was pussy-whipped and to be pitied.
But, I think it is very important that lots of people tell Lori that Rick has all the signs of being an abuser and she needs to wake up and smell the coffee, if only by setting up a secret savings account to build her get-away fund. Because she’s gonna need to get away someday and probably not too long into the future. Yes, I suspect the Lori has some self-esteem issues. Typically, only a woman with issues, or no real life relationship experience, would allow a man to dictate important parts of her life like that.
Bingo. Definite red flags and obvious power imbalance for mine, but I dare say she knew what she was getting into and is either happy with it or at worst comfortable to tolerate it and play along.
What’s “the Shovel Speech”?
I’ve known plenty of Pentecostals that are not like Rick. And I don’t just mean the people who go to the more liberal Assemblies of God churches that have the speaking in tongues thing but not the misogynist requirements for women.
Plus, Rick is married to an atheist, so he’s already not toeing the party line.
FTR I have never met Skald and I am not related to him by marriage.
Just wanted to clear that up.
Getting back to the OP. Putz? For sure.
Old fashioned ideas about gender roles? You bet.
Abuser? Assumes facts not in evidence.
But the thread isn’t about what conclusions can be reached by analyzing the facts in evidence; it’s about red flags.
There are the red flags about this situation, but it isn’t your place to step in.
What you Can do is have a frank discussion with your wife. Express to her your concerns & see if she echoes them (She’s met Rick, I haven’t). If she agrees with you, there still isn’t anything that you can do now.
You CAN agree, however, that if Lori ever approaches you showing abvious signs of abuse, says she wants out and can’t get out… that you can provide her with a safe “Rick-Free” place to stay until you can get her into a battered woman’s shelter.
Rick will probably take her for everything she has & torpedo her education, but if her close relatives/parents (you’re just cousins) are alive, its their place to step in and say something. Maybe they’ve already done a “Will” upgrade
so that anything she inherits is held in trust & distributed to her alone monthly. Granted, you are certainly free to talk to your relatives and see what they say, but unless they plan on throwing Rick a “blanket party”, leave your bat in the closet.
How do you know he isn’t simply going to offer his input? He said “discourage her from continuing her education”, so I would assume that’s what he’s going to do.
In the absence of anything else, I don’t think that the thing about discouraging Lori from her job and MBA are ‘red flags’, whatever that means, or problematic in any other way. The stuff about the jeans is kind of strange. It’s ultimately their life though.
I don’t think I’d want to inhabit your ‘perfect’ world.
As I grew up in a Pentecostal church I was very surprised to hear this. Is this common for Pentecostal churches in the states, because it certainly does not happen in any of the churches near me.
It was true in the church I grew up in, when I was growing up. I don’t know about now, though I doubt women wear pants to service.
*Secular *women wearing pants is still occasionally a big thing in the south, especially in old-money or rural areas. It’s a weird culture if you aren’t familiar.
From my experience, it greatly depends on the church. When I was a teen we bounced through a great many Pentecostal-flavored churches, and they varied from head-coverings to long-skirts only to “just please don’t wear ripped jeans to church.” Most of them did prefer women to dress “modestly” which usually translated to dresses/skirts of some kind, because apparently the fact that women have legs is really stimulating.
And Hector, I agree, my description was in-apt. It’s not a perfect world when a woman has to encourage another woman to keep a sense of self in the face of spousal pressure. You’re correct that my advice reflects a very imperfect world.
If that wasn’t your concern, then I’m sorry that you feel threatened by women encouraging other women to continue wearing pants (or working outside the home) without spousal approval, of women finishing their degrees regardless of the “input” the spouse offers, or of everyone who is married having their own personal, private (which often necessitates secret) bank account in case things turn out poorly.