I’m opening a thread for this because it is inappropriate in the original thread and I didn’t want to drag the OPer into it because I’m not questioning her actions at all.
Background: The OPer in another thread recently broke up with her boyfriend because he turned out to be a gambling addict. After a confrontation, he broke up with her, but they remained in the same house while one of them found a new place to live. However, after finding out from a friend that he’s been out chasing women in the last few weeks, she confronted him, and shoved him. She was the aggressor. He didn’t retaliate but rather left. She came home later to discover he’d moved out. She mentioned in the OP that her anxiety level was very high and she didn’t feel “safe.” To the best of my knowledge, the OPer’s boyfriend has never threatened her physically. She also lives with an 18 year old daughter.
Here’s my question: Many posters advised her to get herself immediately to a women’s shelter. (The OPer didn’t act on that advice, BTW.) And my reaction to that was “What?” I mean are women’s shelters really there for women who are going through breakups and have no reasonable fear for their safety? I’ve always looked at women’s shelters to be for, well, for emergencies. And having a big fight with your boyfriend doesn’t really meet that threshold, IMO.
However, sometimes I have been accused of being a tad calloused. So I wanted to pose the question to the Doper community at large: Is the recommendation of a women’s shelter appropriate in this situation?
Original thread is here, but please don’t use that thread to comment. As I said, I’ve got no issues with the OP, but rather the advice given to her.
It seems like a waste of what I’m sure is limited space. If he didn’t even retaliate when she shoved him and has no history of violence, there’s no reason to think that he’ll start now.
If he’s left, and hasn’t been aggressive to date, then I don’t think moving to a women’s shelter is warranted. -She already has a place to stay, and can change the locks if she doesn’t feel safe
-She also has an 18-year old daughter, and with a place for both of them to stay, it just seems…rude, mean, whatever…to take two places at a shelter that would be used by women who really do NOT have anywhere else to go.
Now…as far as the counseling the women’s shelter can give, yeah I’m all for it. But being a day-member rather than actually living there is something else entirely.
It seems more reasonable to change the locks and to be prepared to call police if needed. I didn’t sense there was urgency to leave for fear of her life which seems to be the purpose for many shelters that are explicitly for women.
I didn’t read the other thread, but taking THIS post on face value. If he didn’t hit her back, doesn’t appear like he’s going to, has never abused her in the past etc…I’d say no. If she’s worried about her safety and doesn’t have anywhere else to go, then go for it or find a family member or friend to squat with. Even if she does want to go to a Women’s Shelter, don’t you need a social worker or police officer to get you there? The one I know of is at a ‘secret location’. You can’t just drive up to it. I have a friend that works at one. She’s been working there for 12 years or so, I couldn’t even tell you what part of town it’s in. I’d be surprised if her husband new more then that much information. If that’s the case for all of them (and it’s probably not), she’d still have to plead her case to a cop/social worker and go from there. I’m not sure a cop would take her into protective custody when nothing has really happened.
Again, you have to keep in mind, I did NOT read the other thread, this is just based on what’s written here.
You have to keep in mind, this is the SDMB, the land of no middle ground. As a collective whole, we really do have a hair trigger when it comes to telling people to call the police, get a lawyer, go the media, break up with him, quit your job, fire the employee, sell your house and move somewhere else etc…
On the face of it, this seems to not be a case where going to a woman’s shelter would be appropriate in that she does not seem to be in any reasonable fear or danger and there are limited spaces which would be taken from someone who genuinely need it.
This is the place where posters regularly council others to call the police/report to HR when someone looks at them funny. Surely you can’t be any more surprised by over-reaction advice than I am.
And yes, the advice to go to a shelter wasn’t appropriate.
She is not a victim of domestic violence (if anything, she is the perpetrator of domestic violence), so its not a very appropriate use of a domestic violence shelter. From the point of view of the fact that she can’t afford her rent and will soon have no place to stay, it’s a completely appropriate use of a shelter whose mission is not specific to domestic violence victims. for example, this shelter or this shelter which exist specifically to provide temporary housing for homeless families. Compare to this shelter who serves domestic violence victims specifically.
Just FYI, there are women’s shelters that are not specifically for battered women- any homeless woman can avail themselves of these. I don’t know about my current area, but I know of at least 3 of these types of shelters back in Tucson, where I used to live.
I don’t think it’s ever inappropriate to call and ask. Just don’t misrepresent your situation. I mean, I have no idea if battered women’s shelters are regularly sending people back to abusive husbands because there is no room, or if they generally have excess capacity and are often willing to help someone in complicated, destructive situation even if they aren’t a victim of abuse. I suspect it varies a great deal by location. I do think it’s a place for someone with no friends or family to start looking for guidance.
I recommended in the other thread that she contact the women’s shelter, and I’m sticking by that.
I don’t necessarily think that they would (and certainly don’t think that they SHOULD have to) offer her a place to stay there (shelters are notoriously short-staffed and short-bedded), but what they WILL do is give her useful and legally valid advice for getting herself sorted out and disentangled legally and financially from her ex-fiance. That sort of advice is hard to come by on short notice and free.
I also think it’s slightly different being homeless vs being in a relationship going south. There’s no evidence from the posts here that the fiance was abusive, or had any inclinations of being abusive, just an addicted gambler and liar. So I don’t think staying at a shelter is her best option, nor do I think that a shelter would feel obligated to make a place for her.
I would think that your ex gambling away your money so you don’t have a deposit for a new place would qualify as a good reason for some women’s shelters.
While prior behaviour is a predictor for future physical risk in DV, the one that’s been found to quite reliable is the persons level of fear. I’m on holiday so can’t run down a cite right now. Unfortunately this isn’t widely known so people tend to think its jumping at shadows rather than them knowing the person best.
Contacting services is useful in order to run a more detailed assessment, because one of the highest risk times is separation. Often people are not completely consciously aware of the large range of behaviours that have occurred during the relationship, that has resulted in them being so frightened and once the range of controlling behaviours has been examined a situation can change from ’ she’s never been hit’ to a situation that is much more serious.
So I would agree contacting a shelter has its place, for reassurance and options if nothing else.
Even if a particular women’s shelter isn’t quite the right place for her to stay as a resident, they will certainly have information on what resources are available to her as she gets back on her feet emotionally and financially.
Most cities have a patchwork of organizations providing support groups, mental health counseling, financial support for doing things like getting together a security deposit, apartment listings, youth services, legal advice, financial counseling, food pantries, etc. Shelters have trained personnel who are familiar with what services are available and how to make use of them. There services often really want to help people in these sorts of jams. Their help has a strong chance of contributing to a positive outcome, and helping someone get back on their feet can be a nice change from people with more chronic and less resolvable problems. Really, they are there to help people. Nobody should be ashamed of asking if they are able to help.
And if a shelter does have some space, they may welcome her and her daughter to take a short break away from the turmoil so that they can plan their next move in a neutral space.
There was no indication that she needed to leave where she was right away. She was not homeless. And it turns out to be correct, the landlord is working with her.
These things vary from state to state. Here a woman’s shelter is not the place to turn to for advice. It is the place you might be sent to by those that give advice. There are other people and agencies much better suited for giving advice. The types of shelters that were mentioned in the other thread are specifically for domestic violence. Ymmv
And if not reliable, at least effective - in many locations an expression of fear is sufficient to result in a restraining order against the man.
This happened to a friend of mine. After a dispute, his GF was able to obtain a restraining order simply by saying she was afraid. There was no history of any sort of domestic violence, but no such evidence was required - indeed, there was nothing resembling due process. He could not enter the house (which he owned) temporarily to collect any personal belongings, including his computer that he used for work.
After about a week it was looking as if he might be allowed to enter the house briefly, with a police escort, to retrieve some personal belongings. But this possibility ended when she accused him of sexually molesting her 10-year-old daughter (from a previous marriage). He was arrested for this - had to post bail, hire a lawyer, tell his employer, etc.
The issue was resolved about 7 months later when the daughter (who’d had a good relationship with my friend) told a social worker that there never had been any abuse of any kind, and that her mother had said that this was alleged simply as harassment. This was confirmed by a friend in whom GF had confided. GF had said that she’d contacted a “women’s advocate” who explained that the restraining order was essentially automatic and (when it looked like he’d be able to return for his stuff) said that “If there’s any history of sexual abuse, this would be a good time to mention it.”
Abuse charges were dropped, but the GF never suffered anything beyond a loss of credibility. And when he was at last allowed back in the house (after she moved out) most of his personal belongings - including the computer - were gone.
IOW, saying “I’m afraid of him” can be an extremely useful tactic for a woman - the man is basically guilty until proven innocent.