Would you give Mike Pence a chance?

We had threads earlier on giving Trump a chance. The consensus seemed to lean towards no or he had his chance already and blew it.

So let’s suppose Trump is impeached and Mike Pence is declared president. Would you give him a chance?

I was originally going to try to come up with reasons why somebody might or might not but I’ve decided to keep it simple with a Yes/No. Feel free to elaborate as to why or why not below.

Would I have a choice?

/closethread in 1. :slight_smile:

I think we’ll find out well before the end of… summer.

What does it even mean to give him a chance? I’d criticize him for a lot of the past things he’s done and said and advocated for, and I’d look at his new proposals with a skeptical eye, and if they were similar to these past objectionable policies, I’d criticize them as well.

It means whatever you choose for it to mean. That’s why I’ve tried to keep it open ended to facilitate discussion. In my mind it means to not oppose his presidency on day 1 before he has taken any actions.

Furthermore, I suppose one of the things I’m wondering is does Pence’s association with Trump automatically make him presidentia non grata or do you think he would or should be evaluated based on his own merits?

What do you mean by giving him a chance? In the increasingly probable chance that Trump is forced out of office, Pence will become President. Unless he gets damaged by the general corruption of the Trump administration. (Was he in it all along or was he just too dense to realize what was going on around him? And that crew is pretty bad at keeping secrets.)

I find Pence’s policies revolting but he’s marginally better than Trump. Less danger of accidental nukes.

That’s as far as I’m willing to go. Pence will have to earn my respect.

Since we have a few votes and a couple of comments, I will reply to my own OP.

I voted yes. I’m pretty sure I won’t agree with Pence on many issues but I can’t really fault him much for accepting the VP nomination. I think that if (some might argue when) he becomes president he deserves a chance to see what his policies will be. In my mind, his association with Trump diminishes him but it doesn’t taint him irrevocably such that I would reflexively reject what he has to so or what he wants to do.

As above it means whatever you want it to mean. I’m trying to keep in open ended so as to facilitate conversation and not colour the matter with my own reasons and interpretations.

He has yet to indicate that he is any less complicit in the goings-on of the last month, so I give him as much of a ‘chance’ as Trump, which boils down to “do and support horrible things, and I will think you are a horrible leader.”

This applies to just about all federal-level Republicans at this point, by the way.

I don’t see how it really can mean anything. If someone holds a position as the result of a standard process, they ***have ***their chance regardless of whether anyone watching ‘gives’ it or not.

Pretty much this.

As far as how Pence gets to be President or Acting President, I’m with Atrios: eventually the job and the criticism depress Trump so much that having the spotlight just doesn’t make up for it anymore, and he resigns.

As long as the Republicans control the House, and as long as most of the GOP base likes Trump more than they like the rest of the GOP, there will be no impeachment, and there will be no 25th Amendment remedy.

No. He would have a long and arduous mountain to climb convincing me that he is anything other than a theocratic pseudo-Christian bound for the imposition of Levitical Sharia law on the entire population of the USA. He seems especially dedicated to those parts of the Biblical Old Testament (which, let’s remember, represent pre-Christian laws and philosophy) which he can cherry-pick to defend the subjugation of women.

Given the presence of Ryan, Cruz, and their ilk in the Congress, he is a great danger to the Union, and likely to bring about a CONUS religious war.

The really confusing thing about this lot, is that they somehow manage to conflate the imposition of Levitical rule with American Patriotism. The founding of this country could not have been more completely based around the dedication to religious freedom, and nothing could be more un-American than theocracy. It’s the apex of insidious, malignant Orwellian double-speak. (Or should I say its nadir?)

So, yeah. How this poll is running 50-50 I have no idea. Pence has not left any room for doubt about his intentions. There’s no need for a “chance.”

A chance but I would be quite wary about any move he made.

I have to go back to the original question and ask back, what could you possibly mean by ME giving him, or anyone, a chance?

IS it that I would hold my tongue when it comes to criticism? Why on earth would I do that? Where does this concept of “give him a chance” originate? Because it sure sounds like an attempt to suppress realistic evaluation and possible dissent.

I’d absolutely give him a chance. Not because he’s someone whose policies I necessarily like or agree with, but because he’s essentially a professional politician, not some sort of loose cannon reality star/billionaire politician wannabe. Meaning that Pence is likely to respect the position and try and have the proper gravitas and respect that the position demands. He’s also likely more beholden to the GOP than Trump was, and would likely choose less contentious cabinet members.

In other words, I don’t think he’d be drastically different than any of the last several Republican presidents. Not awesome, but hardly the end of the world either.

Remember- the issue with Trump is that he’s a loose cannon and seemingly unstable, not that he’s merely a Republican.

Presidents don’t arrive in office as newly hatched baby chicks, tabula rasa, with no previous actions or statements. Mike Pence has a political history and it is fair to judge him by that history. Part of Pence’s history is his support for, and work with, a mentally damaged Russian agent just because that lunatic could advance his personal career and his party goals. He deserves to be judged by that.

We are judged by the friends we keep and the choices we make. Presidents don’t deserve a free ride.

One might hope that, after the last month of having an insider’s view of how screwed up the Trumpites have been, he’d have developed an appreciation for being reasonable, and at least try to walk back the crazy-wing shift the Republican Party has been on the last 8 years or so. I wouldn’t expect him to go all Democrat on us, but at least try to move back to having positions based on logic and evidence, instead of lies and conspiracy theories.

Do you mean 5 minutes in a locked room with a 1911 Colt with One Bullet before being arrested?

This. Despite not being American.

I’d be very skeptical of him, and oppose any policies that were similar to past objectionable policies that he’s advocated for. I wouldn’t oppose anything he proposed that I didn’t find objectionable. I don’t know what that means with regards to “giving him a chance”.