suranyi, I don’t want to start a pile-on (of myself) so I will just say that these are THEIR impressions not mine
Jews have a similar culture in that they
-strongly value education
-have a stronger attachment to family and I guess my parents mean family in umm, an ethnic, pushy Indian type way
-don’t push prosletyzation of their faith (this is BIG with them, they despise evangelicals)
-don’t care for Jesus.
All four of these things please my parents greatly. For the American half of my existence my parents moved us (deliberately) to a very upper-crust town with a large Jewish population so it just happened to be that most of my early boyfriends were Jewish and my parents tended to get along with them and their families so I think familiarity with the culture is also a big part of the preference.
We are a pretty standard Causasian family, and we have a 13yo daughter (as well as a 10yo son, but he doesn’t factor in here at all). Our daughter has had several crushes on African-American boys as she has grown up, and her current SO is a Caucasian girl her own age. She has also had interest in Caucasian boys, so she’s not just purposefully excluding them.
Personally, I don’t see any problems with this. I believe that a person is a person regardless of how they look (race, gender, etc.), and I only want the best for her. Excluding some people just because of how they look might actually prevent her from finding the Right person for her, and I would much prefer that she have an open mind now, while she’s young, since it’s more likely to carry into adulthood.
As if I have the power to control who my child dates!
To me the issue is less “race” than cultural identity and values. Values can be shared across many ethnic and religious lines, but cultural identity can get lost in the mix. I would be fearful that my grandchildren would not be raised with an appreciation for their Jewish heritage. I care fairly little about having a Jewish daughter-in-law or son-in-law (the first is likely to occur sooner what with sons 18, 13 and 9 and the daughter, adopted from China, only 3), but more about having Jewish grandchildren.
Still, values are far more important. Ethics. Love. Intellectual curiousity. Tolerance. Committment. Some humor helps. At least knowing to laugh at my jokes even if they aren’t too funny.
I don’t much like being a me-tooer all the time, but Dung Beetle’s reasons are pretty much my own. I would worry about the other relatives’ reactions. My father would literally kill me (at least, that’s what he has always told me) if I “brought home” someone of a race other than our own (white) or of another religion (nominally Christian).
As for myself, while I would like to think that I would primarily be concerned that my children’s potential SO’s/spouses treat them well, I don’t really know what my reaction would be if my children brought home someone of a different race or religion. For one thing, I still have no children. For another, I “know better” with regards to prejudice (or so I like to think), but I don’t know what I would do in practice, having not been tried.
Wow. There are young adults out there who actually do what their parents tell them to do … including regarding the choice of potential life partners. And the secret of that parenting “success” is the percieved threat of imminent bodily harm or loss of life.
Gosh. You know at times I bemoan the fact that I doubt my children will/would listen to any edict that I would give them when they are young adults. But then I remember that the reason I lack the power is that I raise them to trust their own judgements. And that they know that I will be there for them even if they make what I think are terrible mistakes. I thought that was part of being family.
I’ll take my lack of power I guess. Young folks, if you are adults then it is time to think for yourselves and not let your parents threaten you into compliance. Dating outside of your cultural group may be a poor choice or may not be, but have a backbone about controlling the fates of your own lives.
I’ve really not had any interest in dating outside my race, to be honest, so while I think my father’s policy is stupid and ignorant, it doesn’t mean I don’t have a backbone about controlling my own fate. I’m just lucky, I guess, that I haven’t had to make that kind of choice. It isn’t as though I’ve been turning down suitors all my life because of my father’s threats. I suppose one day I could bring home a woman of another race and/or religion, just to see if his head spontaneously explodes from the revelation.
I would be upset if my children went out with someone not bright no matter what color, ethnicity or religion. This would also encompass honesty, kindness, and trustworthiness and loyalty.
If the person were too street smart, too controlling…this would bother me as well.
As far as race, religion, ethnicity I could care less.
I would also pretty much echo what Abbie Carmichael said, in regard to religion. My older daughter has “gone out” with (in seventh grade terms) and also had a crush on African American boys, and her first real boyfriend was Mexican. The younger one isn’t quite as busy in that department and her only boyfriend so far was African American. Hasn’t been a problem any time, since all of them seem to be willing to obey our rules for the girls. And willing to go along with the girls’ rules for themselves, in terms of limits on sexual behavior, in the broadest sense.
However, when the older one was a freshman in high school one of the boys who was interested in her was Jewish and I told her then that I wouldn’t allow her to go out with him. (As it turned out he soon proved to be a controlling bozo so that was a moot point.) She was fourteen at the time. As she gets older I obviously have less and less control over who she dates and when she goes to college next year I will have even less influence, if any. But I explained to her then, and have talked to both girls about it since, that I really think they will be wise to choose someone who shares their faith. And since it’s much easier to make that choice before you decide you love someone, it’s wise to limit your dating choices to that criterion.
Their faith is very important to them and I think they will be happier and their eventual marriages will be less stressful if they have husbands who will support them in their beliefs and with whom they can share the most important things.
But, with all of that, we will never turn away from them or anyone they choose, and any man they end up with will be family here. I do hope they will choose guys who are intelligent, caring and respectful of them. We talk about that, too, most often in context of what they tell me about their friends’ relationships and behavior. It’s easier to do it casually then.
This thread is an eye-opener. I’m really trying not to beat my head against my monitor every time I read quotes like:
by trying to put it into perspective. I’m an atheist, so I don’t have any religious beliefs to safeguard. I’m respectful of other people’s beliefs so long as I don’t feel that they infringe anyone else’s basic rights. What people look like and where they come (place or background) from is either irrelevant or interesting, but certainly not negative. My political views are pretty well entrenched, but I don’t necessarily think that anyone who disagrees with me is inherently evil (just misguided).
So what do I value so highly in other people that it would pain me to see my child lacking in a relationship? The answer is probably (in no particular order): tolerance, compassion, intelligence, humour, respect. Just what almost every other parent wants for their child, in fact. And as far as that goes, DSeid said it for me:
I’m just remembering when my aunt, who is very big on having her two daughters romantically involved only with Jewish men, sent my then-sixteen-year-old cousin to study in Israel for a quarter during her junior year of high school.
Aunt Joan thought it would make my cousin “more Jewish.” My cousin came home with a pierced navel and an Israeli soldier boyfriend several years older than her. I don’t think that was quite what Aunt Joan had in mind.
I usually don’t bother making posts that are certain to cause me to be pounced on, but I will state that, although I would never “forbid” a child to date anyone based on race, creed, etc., I would strongly discourage them from having children with anyone who was an immigrant and still had close ties with relatives in their native country. Why? Because I work in Family Court and have seen too many people going crazy trying to get their children back after the ex snatched them and shipped them out of the country. This does not just apply to daughters, but to sons as well.
Before you start climbing all over me and calling me a bigot (or whatever), please ponder the fact that experience is a teacher. Learning from experience does NOT equal bigotry. And I am well aware that many immigrants would do just about anything to AVOID having their children grow up anywhere else but their new, adopted country. Nonetheless, cross-border custody disputes are a horror, and I would counsel anyone (and that includes people from countries other than the US who are considering having children with people from the US) to be extremely cautious about having children with an expat.
It would be much better if people would inform themselves about the existence of treaties between nations, preventing/solving such cases.
If there is no such treaty - and if if there is one - it would be wise in any case to have a pre-nuptial or other legally binding (considered as such in both nations) document to prevent such situations.
I didn’t actually do it. I wouldn’t subject someone to one of our family reunions unless I was pretty seriously dating them, and even then probably not, because yeeech.
What is cool is my dad’s willingness to piss off more close-minded members of our family when he thinks they’re being jerks. Rather than just trying to keep the peace.
Please note that she was very young at the time. If the same issue came up today (three years later) I would remind her that mixed faith relationships have some unique stresses, and then I would shut my mouth. And I also think you should know that at no time was she prevented from spending time with this kid or from being friends with him. In fact, she and his mother planned his birthday party two years ago. (Of course, it was the being friends part that taught her about his character, and they’re not so friendly any more.)
And if I’m understanding you correctly, that you think I’m saying there is something wrong or negative about people of other faiths, that would be a serious misunderstanding of what I said. All I said was that I think romantic love, and especially marriage, is a special relationship, and differing in substantial ways about an essential part of your being is not the best way to make it work. I’m not trying to protect my kids from “evil”, I’m trying to help them have the best chance they can to have a strong marriage and a strong faith. And it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if parents who have raised their kids in a different religion, or without any, would not be thrilled with their child dating my Christian daughters.
As I said before, as they get older I have, and want to have, less and less control over their decisions. If one of them brings home the love of her life and he happens to be someone of a different faith, he will be family here, as long as he respects and cherishes her.
My children would be lucky to FIND someone of the same race/creed/religion, we’re all such a gorgeous mix. My sisters and I are encouraging one of the varied of our offspring to marry a Laotian/Hmong/one of the new immigrant Asians to our area because Grandma doesn’t have one of those babies yet. We live in Central California and the newcomers are just getting into their 2nd generation and were’nt ready to marry up with us yet, but we’ll break 'em down. Our sons and daughters are good-looking and have decent jobs, so it’s just a matter of time.
Christmas dinner already consists of tamales, sweet-potato pie, HoneyBaked ham and lumpia. There’s room on the table for purple rice with spicy shrimp.
My son and daughter have my blessing to date whoever makes them feel good about themselves and to marry whoever makes them feel content.
I understood you to say that you had forbidden her to date him because he was Jewish, whereas now it seems that you are saying that it was due to her age. If I misunderstood you, I apologise (although in that case, what did the fact that he was a Jew have to do with it?)
I understand parents being concerned about the difficulties inherent in interfaith (or outerfaith) relationships. However, the example in front of me is that of my own parents who have adamantly held different beliefs for 47 happy years. Their love and respect for each other as people have never got in the way of the fact that they hold completely opposite views, and their children were brought up to know that there was always more than one equally valid way of seeing things, (perhaps this is why, as an atheist, it doesn’t really bother me that my daughter has so far almost exclusively dated Catholics). If someone’s faith is strong, it can stand to be tested.
While I tend to agree with you on the “faith tested,” point zephyrine, I would say that for some people religion isn’t only about faith-it’s also about maintaining a certain lifestyle. As a moderately religious Hindu, I would say my lifestyle and culture would be a slap in the face of someone who is very religious and practices an Abrahamic religion, so much so that either I would have to alter my lifestyle or they would have to alter theirs. And you know, there’s no way I’m altering mine so I wouldn’t blame someone like thirdwarning for advising her child against dating me (well, let’s assume she has a son). Personally, I think if you change, it shouldn’t just be about pleasing the other person but also because you fundamentally agree with the lifestyle/views of the other religion. This is also what I meant about being disappointed if my child had to give up practicing Hinduism just to marry someone.
