I’d like to know what comfort REASON can give.
Does it know you, love you?
Irishman: Oh it irked you.
We are all so sorry.
God forbid anyone should mention prayer in times of horrible distress!
Your sensibilities should have taken precedence.
Thanks, pldennison, for expressing so eloquently what I was trying to express so clumsily.
To put it another way, I ask the believers why is Earth not like Heaven?
Dunno. Maybe because Heaven already existed? If you’re truly interested, then maybe you should start a GD thread on it, and some of our more knowledgeable posters (like POLYCARP) will offer an opinion.
Of course, you realize none of us knows. None of us really knows why He does anything.
And yet you believe. Can’t you see why I and others think that is strange?
Jab - so, I gather you would prefer a life as a “happy sheep”? Where you don’t struggle, or stretch yourself?
Personally, I don’t “aspire” to be a “happy sheep”. That’s your spin on it. But if that’s how you want to interpret it…
I think Jodi is right - best to start a Great Debate about it. I know I am not as eloquent or as well-versed as Poly on this topic, and I won’t pretend I am. However, I do believe that free will on Earth means being able to choose evil, or good. If evil is taken out of the mix, what is there to choose from? Good and good? What a challenge.
I was taught to believe that Earth was a place where we would face challenges and would struggle. It’s where we aspire to make more of ourselves. Heaven is an entirely different kettle of fish altogether, the next stage of our journey. But frankly, I feel I am ill-equipped to elaborate with any eloquence on it.
I am posting only because through this thread I am able to better understand my own emotions on this topic.
At first I was bitter and angry and tired of hearing the religious rhetoric. After a day, I realized that my anger was misplaced. After a few days, I am actually on the side of the religious folks. I am still agnostic (god is as reasonable as the big bang to me). However, I can see how many people need this type of guidance or comfort in this difficult time. I respect them for their devotion and I envy them somewhat - as I have no confidence in the higher purpose (?) of this tragedy.
Peace to you Jodi, Jester, yosemitebabe and everyone else on this feeble little world of ours ! 
In the latest issue of LAWeekly, (which is currently having server problems), Dave Shulman asks this question: “Do you recall the last time anyone was terrorized by agnostic fundamentalists?”
So what’s your point, jab?
Trying to spread a little joy here? :rolleyes:
Peace to you too, Lockfist. We are all just trying to get through this, the best we can.
Jesus, Mohammed, Buddah… they are one and the same.
they all get together at the end of the week for drinks after work, and to swap stories about their week. (“You should have seen what one of my followers did this week! It was so cute!”)
the sooner people realise this, the sooner weeks like this will stop happening.
people, you know what is right and what is wrong… why do we need commandments to tell us this? why should certain types of food condemn us to an eternity in hell?
(my world has gone horribly wrong this week, and thus i must appologise if i have offended you. actually no. if i have offended you then perhaps you need your third eye squeegied clean.)
Huh? Take this frustration out on the people who advocate flying planes into buildings. Hint: Not all people who believe in a diety advocate or encourage flying into buildings.
Seriously. I understand the frustration with crackpots. And certainly many religions have crackpots. But many people with many different beliefs or faiths live their lives in a productive, helpful and loving way. What they personally believe is no skin off your nose, is it? As long as they aren’t preaching to you, or anything…
Oh. I see. Only your world has gone terribly wrong. My apologies. Please. By all means, then. Offend as many people as you see fit. :rolleyes:
Actually, I’m not too “offended”, but I wonder why some people get bent out of shape by other people getting strength and solace from their personal faith. So what if you think it’s a bunch of BS? So what? I think that certain kinds of music and certain sporting events are utter BS, but I don’t mind other people enjoying them. As long as they don’t try to get me to participate too…why should I care?
Speaking only for myself, it is precisely this that I am objecting to. My faith, or lack thereof, is my business and the business of my deity of choice. I do not object to your* faith or how you choose to demonstrate it**. Please do not interfere with mine, or use recent events as a means to convert/chastise me.
- The “your” here is general and not specific.
** This is just a lie - I will object to your means of demonstration whenever I feel you are using your faith to further your own personal agenda in a way that causes physical or emotional pain to others.
i wish i could, but they are no where to be seen. nor are there many people who should still be walking around enjoying their life. 
i know. just trying to make a point is all.
my point EXACTLY.
uhm… yeah. only mine. everyone else is having a FANTASTIC time.
not bent out of shape. peoples faith is what keeps them going. for some people its going to church. for some its going to a mosque. as long as at the end of the day its not promoting this kind of evil shite then its fine by me.
my appologies if i sound preachy. i dont wish to convert you. i just want some people to think a bit more about what is going on in the world around them (pretty pointless here really. most people seem to have their feet firmly planted on the ground, and their arguments rooted in logic)
well what do you know. i did end up appologising.
Yeah, OK. We are in agreement, then. As long as people leave you alone, and don’t try to shove their beliefs down your throat, you’re OK, right? Good!
I guess my main point in all this is that some people believe what they believe, and as long as they are not pestering your or trying to convert you, why piss in their cornflakes? Why rain on their parade? Not that I am accusing you specifically, though. I am speaking generally here - some people want to just be a big ol’ bummer and tell those of us that are faithful that it’s just a load of BS. Which is their right, I guess. But what a bitter, negative bummer thing to do - especially at this time.
Nope. Religion is not rational. It therefore is not amenable to detailed explanation. It is super- and supra-natural, and so it is fruitless to expect it to fit into the understanding and concepts we have for and in this natural world.
Moreover, I frankly do not care in the least if “you and others” think it is “strange.” I and many “others” find it comforting and supporting. I’m not trying to convert you; I don’t care in the least what you believe or do not believe. But it seems to me to be the bare minimum of respectful behavior to refrain from attacking others’ beliefs just because you don’t share them.
I answered your questions because you asked them. I was not attempting to change your mind.
What a massively stupid question. What is an “agnostic fundmentalist?” What are the tenets of agnosticism that may be taken to extremes and perverted by extremists? It seems to me obvious that if you have no beliefs, then you have no beliefs subject to misinterpretation or cooption. That does not mean it is inherently better to be a nonbeliever.
Some people are never called to fight – physically, intellectually, emotionally, or in any other respect – because they don’t have anything worth fighting for. That doesn’t mean they are better or luckier than the rest of us.