You tell us.
Sooo, has anyone been slipped the sausage?
Not by Cuckoorex, apparently. Back in post #75, he introduced us to Laura as “a woman I hooked up with a few months ago.” 103 posts later, we learn that “hooked up with” = “ended up making out in her car.”
Frankly, Cuck, if you hadn’t told us you were 37, I would have guessed about 20 years younger. 19-year-old Ashley sounds like the most mature player in this little drama. And you might still have a shot with her if you’ll just man up and make something happen.
I’m bushing here! Like :mad: but not all angry-like. You rock, too!
But as Cat Whisperer intimates, you’d have to be in dire need of a shag to buy into this mess.
I think she put it more delicately.
You know, I love the snark from some of you. I really do. I’ll try to address certain posters and their responses ASAP.
Meanwhile, here was my Monday:
I did some contract work downtown, and that took me to about 5 o’Clock or so, so when that was done, I decided to get a few brews. No one really around, it is a Monday after all. Ashley was working and she stopped over to talk to me, just small talk and all that, and she didn’t seemed fazed at all by me meeting up with Lauren before, which probably means she really isn’t interested in me after all, as I suspect. But one woman saw me and called out to me by name. This was the chick I was dancing with a night or two ago, we’ll call her Helen, and Helen had just gotten off work. I hugged her and sat with her and as it turns out, she’s had a pretty shitty couple of days; she got dumped to start with, and then her best friend’s little brother, who apparently was into drug dealing, got robbed and then he decided to take revenge and shot someone so his life is pretty much over; bail set at 1.5 million, no chance of parole, and apparently Helen really thought this guy was generally good except he got caught up in the wrong scene. Helen herself, apparently, is a recovering meth addict, though obviously she still drinks. VERY skinny woman. She’s 32 but honestly looks like she’s in her early 40s. From moment to moment she’s either flying high or swimming in the muck. She’s laughing one second and crying the next. I recognize this as the kind of manic-depressive behavior that my mother experiences, and I really just want to help her cope. Admittedly, alcohol is NOT the best remedy for depression, but it happened…
So of course I sit with her, and we toast her friend’s brother and I make her PROMISE she’s not going to drive (she was already hammered by the time I got there) and she keeps going back and forth between crying and laughing and for fuck’s sake, what am I supposed to do? She wants to go to another bar, and I agree to follow her; I should NOT have let her drive. She actually went the wrong way down a one-way street even as I was honking at her to NOT turn, and somehow she ended up arriving at this bar before me.
She DID realize she went the wrong way but kind of blew it off. I made her promise, PROMISE, that she would NOT try to drive home, and she agreed. We sat outside and talked a bit and ultimately she REALLY broke down, just lots and lots of crying, and I told her it’s alright, just let it out, if there’s anything I can do, let me know.
So she came out of the funk for a few sporadic episodes, and yes she kissed me a few times but NO I do not think it means she “wants me”, she’s fucking wasted and really emotional at this point.
She went to the restroom and came back telling me that she was going to go for a ride with this guy who rode in on a Harley. At this point she is barely able to stand up, so I’m doubting her ability to even ride as a passenger on a bike. Still, I tell her I’ll watch her stuff while she rides, she says she’ll be back in ten minutes, which of course I know is bullshit.
She comes back maybe 4 minutes later saying she needs her purse because she needs her ID. Why, I ask? She says the cycle guy was saying that if they get pulled over then they both need IDs. I tell her that right away that sounds like bullshit but hey, not only is she drunk and wanting to do this, but I’m not dating her or in any way responsible for her, so why should I care? but… Still, I ask her if she’s coming back, made her PROMISE she would, and asked her to be safe and NOT drive, and she promised that as well.
About an hour and forty minutes later, I had enough and left. Her car was still there, so at least she didn’t drive; if Harley guy took her home or whatever, at least she wasn’t on the road. But yeah, I was feeling resentment for having fallen for this shit *again *and spending nearly two hours worrying about her and waiting to see if she was OK and needing a ride home. I sat there with a water and a basket of peanuts looking like a doofus because I was worried about her.
Finally I decided that I wasn’t going to worry about her anymore; she’s not my SO in any way, and although I like her and don’t want to see her hurt, it’s not my responsibility to watch over her. I went to get some groceries and stopped back and her car was still there, So I went to another place where I knew one of my friends would be bartending. Got a beer, told the story, was told by the bartender that I was pretty much a well-meaning idiot, and hey, guess who texted me? Lauren, wanting to know if I was going to be out tonight.
Sigh.
So I meet up with Lauren, and I pretty much straight up ask her what the deal is with Martin the other night. She says he was jealous of everyone that night, even getting angry when she was talking to girls. Now, Lauren had said before she has problems with jealous guys, and I’m pretty sure that qualifies. I decided to take a bit of a chance, so I said to her, something like this: “what are you REALLY looking for? And please be honest with me and I promise I will be honest with you.”
I think that took her by surprise a bit, because she hemmed and hawed a bit, but I prodded her, for example asking her “what do you really want to be doing three years from now,” and “If you could choose an ideal lifestyle, what would it look like?” and so forth, and she started answering me, at first hesitantly but she started opening up more, and ultimately I told her, “I really enjoy spending time with you and I think we have lots of fun together, but I want you to promise me that you will be honest and real with me and I’ll promise to do the same with you, and maybe we’ll never be more than friends, but we WILL be friends at least.” And she seemed to think about it for a moment, then she hugged me and said “deal,” and as far as I’m concerned, that was a valid transaction.
Somehow in the midst of this, I never did get her to clarify what she meant by “committed relationship but not exclusive.” Maybe a topic for another time.
Well, Lauren had to go because her babysitter was going to be off-duty shortly and all that, so I said goodbye to her and nursed my beer. There were some people I knew at the end of the bar, so I moved over to join them. Eventually most of them left except one girl of mixed ethnicity, something like Hispanic but kind of Asian, maybe an Islander background. Anyway, talked to her for a while, and she’s a singer, and new to town, and told her about some karaoke bars around town. She made me promise to show up and sing with her, otherwise she wouldn’t do it. So I said sure, and she left, no hugs kisses or anything, which is absolutely fine.
Now here’s where more fun happened. There was a blonde girl sitting at the bar, and she was with two guys but they took off and it seemed like they were gone for a LONG time, and she looked really bored. I asked the bartender if he knew what was going on and he said it was her brother and a friend as far as he knew. I decided to buy a shot for her and go over to talk to her. She thanked me for the shot and we had a nice conversation until the other guys came back in. So I had brother and friend on either side of me, standing up, and brother asked me my name. I told him, and he responded with “Stay the fuck away from her.”
Okay…
So I said, “hey, I’m not trying to take her home or anything…hey, have I made any indecent comments or suggestions to you?” To which she said no. “Have I touched you in any way?” No, again. So I said to brother, “I’m sorry if I upset you, I meant no harm.” and I walked away.
I overheard the girl berating her brother saying he was rude and how I was just talking to her and hey, you know what? Brother came over to me a few minutes later, and apologized and not only did we do a shot together, he paid my tab. I told him that it was no big deal, if someone had been sitting talking to my sister I’d be protective, too, and we talked a bit more, and the girl eventually came over and was trying to apologize but of course by then it was all good…and you know, I’m sure if I see any of those people again we’ll just share a shot and laugh.
Now, I know I have some people in this thread that are really kind of hating on me thus far; I’ll make the same promise to you that I made to Lauren; I will be totally honest and forthright with you.
What’s my motivation for posting this latest update? Well, let’s take it case by case.
Ashley seemed glad to see me and made small talk, but I’m still thinking she just wants to be friends as of now.
I don’t really know Helen that well; we’ve danced together and I’ve been a shoulder to cry on but beyond that, I don’t really know her. But I do know she’s emotionally fragile right now and she’s had a few recent events really push her buttons. I wanted to just be a friend to her. Eventually, I did leave and honestly I feel guilty about it, because what if she DID come back and try to drive home? Again, I don’t care if she went with Harley guy to get high or laid or whatever, it’s her decision…but dammit I was feeling really trod upon there.
Lauren? Well, I actually felt that there was some progress there; I felt like I let her know that something was off about the Martin thing and that I would be honest with her if she agreed to be honest with me, and I think she accepted that.
Islander chick? We’re gonna sing, to the best of our drunken abilities, on Wednesday. Other that that, I have no designs or intentions on her at all. Yeah, she’s cute, but I don’t know her very well so I’ll stick with “casual friendship” here.
Blonde chick with protective brother? I honestly don’t expect to see them again at all, or if I do, that I’ll even recognize them. If so, great, and hopefully we’ll laugh about what happened the first time we met. I just thought she looked lonely and bored and wanted to try to cheer her up.
So, for those keeping score at home: number of women I went home with or otherwise got anything more than a kiss las night: 0.
TL;DR
Don’t act like the poor, confused man. Seriously. The girl you mentioned in the very beginning? Ashley? Laura? Whoever? The 19-year old. She seems nice and you think she likes you. Ask her out. If you start dating her, stop “keeping your options open” and enjoy your time with her.
PROTIP: If a girl is drunkenly kissing you one night and a Mexican neurosurgeon the next, ignore her.
You’re probably right in regards to my chances with Ashley.
As for “making out” and “hooking up,” I’m sorry but maybe my definitions of what each entails are different than the generally accepted terms; to me, “hooking up” means “meeting someone for a night of fun that culminates in direct sexual activity which may or may not involve penetration.” And “making out” pretty much has the same definition in my mind. So I use them interchangeably. For whatever reason, if I’m talking about something like just kissing and random groping, I’ll say “fooled around a bit” instead of either of the previous terms.
My husband and I were just talking about this. Hooking up has always, since I can remember, meant a ‘getting together, hang out, starting to date a bit’ kind of mesh. Hard to exactly pin point, sometimes some sex involved, though.
So the other day, I’m watching some horrid reality show and they keep saying ‘hooking up’ when they mean ‘sex’, and my husband says to me, "Do white people think ‘hooking up’ means ‘having sex’?
So, I’m still team Ashley. I have no clue why all these other encounters even matter or are at all noteworthy.
Keep in mind that based on most of the other threads going on lately the Mexican Neurosurgeon should be watched because he was near a Mosque once.
Hell, denounce him to Homeland Security, or the Arizona cops. He’ll wind up in Mexico City or Gitmo, and you’ll have a shot.
My take on this from the outside: None of these women will ever sleep with you, because they think of you as the “nice” safe guy friend they can kiss without consequence/will watch their shit when they go off with other men/be their shoulder to cry on. You’re like the gay best friend. No, the nice guy doesn’t always finish last and you don’t need to be an asshole. But everything you’ve put out there in this thread makes you look spineless, and that’s incredibly unattractive in a potential partner. (IMHO obviously!)
You need to find a new batch of women. Give up on this current lot, your chances with them are nil. Good luck to you, I hope you find what you’re looking for.
“Even books have spines!”
That’s an excellent definition, Melon. “Hooking up” is intentionally ambiguous and can meet nothing more than “ran into someone and spent some time in his or her company” with no physical contact whatsoever. And, yes, Nzinga, it can also mean actual intercourse. It all depends on context.
My thoughts exactly at this point.
And by the way, for a single mom, Lauren seems to spend a lot of time hanging around in bars. She’s out drinking on a Monday night while her kids are home with a babysitter? Hmmm…
They probably only matter in the sense that I overthink everything, so whenever I get a kiss, I start wondering if something more is going to happen, or if I should say something about it, or whatever. Apparently kisses are the equivalent to a brain taser for me. As for the rest of the encounters, it’s pretty much a way to provide some context, a baseline for how most of my interactions usually go, hopefully allowing for a more thorough picture of the situation.
You know, this is kind of what I’ve been thinking for a while now; I do come across like the gay friend. (That isn’t meant as an insult to anyone of course) My bartender friend said (mostly in jest, I hope) “Now you know why so many guys are assholes.”
I’m most likely going to check to see if Helen’s car is still there or if she’s at work, doing alright. This has NOTHING to do with wanting to make anything happen with her, and everything to do with worrying that I left her in a vulnerable and inebriated state. I think THAT makes me an asshole more than anything else I’ve done recently. I shouldn’t have let her drive at all, and I should have insisted that she go home to sleep it off, and should have driven/walked her home (she lives near the bar) but I didn’t. So maybe I’m a good listener but a shitty friend to her.
Gaaaah! She’s a grown-assed woman and you are not her parent/babysitter/keeper! Helen isn’t a friend, she’s someone who drunkenly flirted with you and then used you as her emotional tampon/purse sitter. Sure, you shouldn’t let her drive home drunk, but going back to the bar, checking in on her at work is creepifying, lost puppydog, and paternalistic. I understand you want to be a good friend but you are not protector of damsels in distress. (That paragraph sounds more ranty than I intend, but hopefully you take it for what it’s worth: my opinion!)
You don’t have to be an asshole to project some self-confidence. The “you have to be an asshole” bullshit is what men who have no self-confidence and are bitter toward women for not fucking them their tell themselves to shift responsibility for their shortcomings to everyone but themselves.
So because Ashley wasn’t fit to be tied with a jealous rage over you talking to another woman. . . she doesn’t like you? Dude, if I like a guy and we aren’t exclusively dating (or, ya know, dating at all as is the case here), I wouldn’t get upset if he talked to, went out with, or fucked another chick. Period. You aren’t mine. I have no reason to be upset. Because I’m a sane and rational woman, I would never be stupid or crazy enough to go to level 10 drama queen over such a thing.
And this, sir, is why you are single. Here you have a perfectly sane sounding girl (minus this initial astronaut thing ;)), who is clearly showing interest in you, but you’d rather play the field with crazy bitches you have zero chance with.
Here’s another friendly tip, from a chick in Ashley’s age demographic: unlike our middleaged, damaged, single mother counter parts**, we aren’t desperate for love, physical attention, or men to take care of us. Ashley’s in college and you’ve said she’s a pretty girl, smart too. I know I would never blatantly throw myself at a guy because I don’t have to. And she doesn’t either. Sure, I’ll flirt with you and open myself up for a move, but if you don’t make it, well- I’m going to move on to a guy with the balls to ask me out. Sorry. We’ve got options.
**Not ALL women are like this, I’m talking about a specific group of bar flies.
You make some valid points. I’m not sure why I keep getting drawn to crazy, but somehow I always seem to end up there. Lauren, as you might have guessed by now, is the only one of the women involved that I’ve had any kind of actual sexual relations with, and she’s clearly Bad News. Our conversation last night notwithstanding, she still hasn’t explained “committed but not exclusive” and the only thing that might fit that description that I can think of is polyamory or an “open” relationship, but if Martin is freaking out over everyone talking to her, including women, then clearly he doesn’t understand or like that kind of relationship. I’m not sure if I would like it, either. I’m perfectly fine with it in concept, but in execution it’s a different matter; I know I would get jealous, too. I get the feeling that she’s WAY less concerned about jealousy than any of her guy friends would be.
Helen…well, I’m not going to go check on her. Like some of you have said, she’s responsible for her own actions. I do think now, that if I had made an effort to do so, I could have taken her home, etc. But she was vulnerable and nearly falling-down drunk. As far as I’m concerned, even if she practically rapes me, she can’t give consent. And I will acknowledge that some of my buddies will tell me that some women will deliberately get that drunk so they can get laid, otherwise they wouldn’t do what they do. Whatever. I’m not against an occasional drunk romp but if you could have seen her…she told me the same story four times in one sitting, and one of the times she kept saying, “have I told you this?” and I said “yes,” and she still kept on telling the story. She nearly fell over just standing up. That’s not attractive to me.
Ashley *is *still one of the most attractive women to me, (with maybe Kelly being up there based on how major of a crush I had on her, but really that was just a thrill, like finally meeting your favorite movie star and they give you a kiss) and maybe I’ve just hung around drunk and crazy too much to pick up on the more subtle cues. So I think I need (a) to take a break from drunk and crazy and (b) just ask her out, period. She is, so far, the least crazy after all.