You’d be surprised how many people can’t even endure a power outage. Or, say, a person with different opinions.
WTF? You must be reading another thread because my posts had nothing to do with being gay. I was attacking the concept of the Atonement, the central doctrine of Christianity. My point would be the same were the most hetero of skirtchasers, so leave out the irrelevant “Well, you’re GAY” responses, shall we?
If yopu are not prepared for rough, blunt discussions, you don’t belong in the Pit. This isn’t the vicar’s tea party. And if you don’t know enough about Christian doctrine to know that Christianity teaches that Christ died for the sins of all humanity (Acts 2:22-24, I Cor 15:3), then you don’t belong in this discussion.
So, Monkey with A Gun, don’t bring a knife to a gun fight (but you’d better bring your Bible and at least a smattering of theology–citing “ineffability” isn’t a good start.)
I made no comment upon whether gobear’s question was accurate, I just said the comparison you drew was wrong.
No, you please show me that they are the same. You are yet to do so.
Coulter’s comment states very directly that Islam exhorts its members to genocide. Explain to me how what gobear says amounts to that.
Um, that’s not what I said–I never said anything about Christians being commanded to kill, but that God decreed that sinful humans–you, me, all the Dopers, everyone–deserves to die and be cast into Hell for our sins against His law. Jesus, the Lamb of God, was sacrificed to atone for our sins and to allow us to enter Heaven if we believe in Him. (John 3:16-17). How you equate that with Ann Coulter is beyond me.
Well, this has gone way beyond what I wanted it be.
I just always think of the points in the OP whenever my Mom starts moaning and weeping about Jesus’ sacrifice, and simply wanted to vent them.
That’s all.
I’m not looking for any kind of “solution” for the theological differences between me and my Mom. None is needed. Our relationship is very good.
We don’t exactly know of any of their names, either. But the point is that while killing a man may be a horribel thing, we killed God. That ranks beyond the Holocaust on the evil scale. In fact, it ranks beyond any evil deed ever done, ever. Were it not for God’s love and willingness to forgive, that alone should have damned us all.
But he wasn’t demanding blood atonement from his son. He was offering himself up for punishment by people who had no right, because in shedding he would create a new covenant with mankind. I don’t claim to fully understand why He would choose that way, but He did. God offered nothing He had no right to give.
I’m a Rudyphobe myself. And on nights when I’m alone, the thunder and lightning are bullying-up outside and the floorboards are creaking… I’m a hand-stabbing Cliffphobe, too.
I’ve always been afraid of Theo and the rest of the Cosbys.
First, how can you kill God? An eternal, immortal being can’t also be a temporal, mortal being–it’s a logical contradiction. Moreover, Jesus knew that He would resurrect, so all He really gave up was a weekend. Heck, Army reservists do that regularly.
And killing one man unjustly outweighs killing 6 million people unjustly? That makes no sense either mathematically or morally.
And just what do you mean by “us” kemo sabe? You can blame Christ’s death on the Romans and the Pharisees, but don’t look at me, I wasn’t even born yet. Killing Jesus on the pretext of atoning for sins that hadn’t even been committed yet (that’s assuming the existence of sin in the first place) also makes no sense.
Again, killing innocent people to punish guilty people is no way to run a justice system–and exactly why do humans deserve to be killed by a Divine Bully, anyway? To quote Patti Smyth, “Jesus died for somebody’s sins, but not mine.”
One point it seems many people are missing is that Jesus was not “just” crucified. He was crucified with all of the world’s sins on his head. Of course, there is no way to tell exactly how much that was (if, indeed, even worldy pain can be quantified) but you can feel the terror that he experience not only because of the agony but by the shock of God leaving him (as he was tainted with a world of sin). “Why have you forsaken me” indeed.
That begs the question of why was the Atonement* necessary. God sacrificed Himself to Himself to satisfy rules that He made?
Speak for yourself, pal. I wasn’t there and I killed nobody.
Historical trivia: after the Sparticus revolt, the Romans took six thousand of the rebellious slaves and crucified them along the Appian Way. Kinda puts the crucifixion of two thieves and one messiah into perspective.
How exactly did you glean from the OP that she was “being way worse than the god she professes to love”? And even still, how does that justify such an abrasive response?
True, I stand corrected.
I believe she was mentioned in revelation 17:3-5.
Ret?
I know you weren’t asking for advice, but I agree with telling your mom that you know dad’s in heaven because he was a good guy is a good idea. Maybe she’ll start to believe you and be happier.
If you want.
But don’t get into, ‘Big deal, it was only three hours.’ Bad idea. Very bad.
That was approximately the funniest Bible reference I’ve seen in my life. Hee hee.
Since I don’t have a Bible handy, I’m guessing the cited passage refers to The Whore of Babylon.
You’re on the Internet, so you have a Bible handy.
Wait a minute, how long were your parents married? I mean, the poor woman was just widowed. Maybe your dad was the center of her life for so long that she’s displacing her grief onto Jesus’ pain. I would cut her some slack. But if she does press you on it, I would say that we humans can never understand God’s mercy and we can assume that He gives every chance to every person who dies, whether or not they’re in a ‘state of grace’ of one particular religion or another.
Why is she so concerned about your father’s soul? You mentioned that he ‘didn’t share her beliefs’, but does that mean he was a different Christian church from hers or was she more orthodox in the same church? Did he refuse last rites or did he never get a chance to pray before he died at all? If he died suddenly maybe she thinks he wasn’t right with God. JMHO.