We should all keep in mind that 90% of what the presidential candidates have said is total bullshit – both Obama and McCain will say anything, regardless of their true opinions, if it helps them get elected. That’s why I’ve been trying to ignore this whole political process, because all the statements made on BOTH sides are 90% bullshit. IOW, it doesn’t bother me that Barack Obama expressed a negative attitude towards Calif. Prop 8 – if it helped HIM get elected, more power to him.
What’s important now, of course, is how Barack Obama treats gays and gay rights now that he is, for all intents and purposes, our 44th POTUS. I think he’ll do a good job overall – he has the potential to be one of the greatest Presidents of all time, up there with Clinton, both Roosevelts, even Reagan & Lincoln. We shall find out in due time.
I agree. Government should not be in the marriage business at all. Let there be an easy way for any people to form contractual relationships that bestow the rights that are typically afforded to married people - whether that’s a gay couple, a married couple, or elderly siblings living together. Call it whatever you want, but make it equally available to all.
Let the churches do whatever they want in terms of ceremony and religious ritual.
Not that I can tell. Googling around it was really scary and depressing just how organized the christian right is, and how often they boycott companies that aren’t sufficiently anti-gay.
I quote him since as an American, he probably has more insight into this issue and the attitudes of fellow Americans than I from over here, where most of the coverage has been on the Presidential election.
The origins of marriage are (poetically) shrouded in the mists of history. It’s impossible to tell whether it was a state arrangement first or a religious one. Don’t let the religious folks fool you into believing they invented it; it’s jut not known.
The secular concept of marriage is about as old as human history. We’ve always needed a way to verify paternity, determine who is eligible to inherit what, and to establish exclusive breeding rights. (Yeah, sexist, but so was human history for millennia.)
There is a separate, religious concept called “holy matrimony.” Matrimony, as far as I’ve ever known, is not a word that has been associated with the secular recognition of couplehood. It’s always been a religious word to the best of my knowledge.
Therefore, I propose that there is a legitimate right for the civil recognition to continue to be called “marriage” and the religious aspect of recognition to be called “matrimony”.
I say we abolish Marriage entirely. Parenthood, too. Same with pregnancy. Neuter everyone, bring back Eugenics, and raise all future generations in a Brave New World scenario, where embryos are raised in glass jars and labeled “Alpha”, “Beta”, etc. based on the function they are designed to perform for society.
Meanwhile, let’s let anyone fuck anyone else they want (including animals, furniture, and other inanimate objects) as long as both parties have informed consent.
The passage of prop 8 is an insult to everyone, not just gay Americans. But everyone needs to drop the bitterness and anger and march on. I was just watching a rebroadcast of Obama’s acceptance speech and the camera zeroed in on Jesse Jackson. He had that face full of character, tears streaming down and holding an American flag over his shoulder. I realized just then the enormity of the moment, as this was a guy who marched on Selma…and he is watching an African American accepting the role of POTUS. Fucking incredible. So this speedbump is just that, a bump in the road. We’ll get there.
At issue is the fact that the same-sex marriage ban is not actually a ban on wedding ceremonies, it’s a ban on the recognition of same-sex marriages. The actual text of the Constitutional amendment in California reads (paraphrasing): “Only marriage between a man and a woman shall be recognized as legal in California.” Forgetting about the obvious loophole (everything except opposite-sex weddings is illegal in California?), the point is that the text clearly states that California is not to recognize same-sex marriages, whether they’re from California, Massachusetts or Copenhagen. Considering that the federal government also fails to recognize same-sex marriages and it’s not completely clear that even Massachusetts and Connecticut would recognize our SSM, I frankly don’t get why any California same-sex couples think they could stay married if Prop 8 withstands the various court challenges.
Of course, Prop 8 is intentionally short and intentionally vague, partly so that it could pass more easily and partly (IMO) so that conservative and fundamentalist interests could keep their people riled up about it for a longer period of time. This whole mess is a politician’s dream, because it basically ensures that the nation’s most passionate voters will be swarming the polls in higher and higher numbers for some time to come. This is even better than the flag-burning bill the GOP kept trying to pass earlier in this decade.
What I don’t get is where we got the notion that voters can directly, deliberately retard social progress in this country. OTOH, we’ve come a long way in the last 10 years, especially in California. I remember that when Prop 22 (the statutory SSM ban) was on the ballot around that time, you were actually automatically considered gay if you were thinking of voting “No” on it. That’s literally the reaction straight people would get when they told their friends they were going to vote “No”. A lot of people were shamed into voting “Yes”, and the idea of straight people voting “No” because they didn’t believe in taking other peoples’ rights away was considered suspicious, at least here in San Diego.
Are you joking or trolling?
They were not voting on marriage.
That’s not the text, that’s the Secretary of State’s summary. This is the text (PDF WARNING).
Domestic partnerships aren’t close enough to marriage, even here. Anyway, they have you exactly where they want you: ready to accept permanent second-class citizen status. Don’t fall for it!
If you find yourself in San Diego, I can point out a handful of them to you. For educational purposes only, of course.
Infringe on their civil rights, presumably.
You clearly haven’t been hanging out at the same bars that I have, or, for that matter, reading craigslist.
Every muscle in my body literally relaxed when I got to the last two sentences quoted. Thanks for this.
Obama is African-American. There is no “half” about it. Almost every African-American alive is of mixed ancestry, and in Obama’s case, his father cannot reasonably be considered an African-American-- he was a Kenyan, from Africa, who happened to live in the US for a few years.
Having said that, it is very unfortunate that the current political climate in the US is still largely anti-SSM. But that’s changing fast. Maybe not fast enough, but it is still changing.
Maybe KGSDad belongs to the school of thought that Spaniards aren’t Hispanics. I’d like to invite him to, say, take a walk around Chueca, go to the beach in Salou or attend the Carnival Drag Queen Contest in Tenerife.