You be the judge

Great Debates
101

[Moderator Hat: ON]

Gigoloman said:

And just who is this “we all”? Did you make the alleged phone calls? Do you know who did, as you indicated above? If so, please forward the information to me or e-mail me and tell me who, specifically, in the administration told you to drop it.

In answer to others: No, there is no documented evidence that I’m aware of that the calls were made. However, in all fairness, I’m not sure what kind of documented evidence we could expect other than police subpoenas of phone records of the calls – and even if that happened, I somehow doubt the cops would turn over the info to us.

It’s time to get on with more regular SDMB stuff, folks. Mikey is gone, at least in that persona. If Gigoloman or anybody else has information about who made the alleged calls, I encourage them to e-mail me. Otherwise, there isn’t a whole lot of point in continuing this discussion.

David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator

[Moderator Hat: OFF]

102

You are a liar David. Then you tried to hide the evidence by banning my account. That is sad. John John and I both recieved CC copies of the email sent to you. We both also know that a few people admit to have calling to a certain extent, but not his home or work, as others did.

“WE” was used loosely to mean all of “us” here at the board, need to respect boundaries. “WE” shouldnt encourage BACKGROUND checks of our members, or allow that to happen.

David your lack of honesty here scares me as you are an “administrator”. You make Mikey out to have been the bad guy, yet it was his family put in jeopardy by this board. Wasnt your response and action to that to simply cancel his account. When I firsted started on this board you showed morals, dignity, and trustworthiness, what happened?
Weasel.

-G

103

Y’know, I’m no defender of David’s generally – Satan’s been known to call for weather checks on a regular basis when he and I agree on something. But for all I’ve had clashes with him, and question the wisdom of some of the things that he has said and done on this board, I have NEVER seen EVIDENCE that he has lied to us, and I’m willing to bet it just hasn’t happened. Avoid a difficult question, yes. Lie about it, no.

You have defamed David publicly on this board. I make the same statement to you I made to Mikeylikesit – put up, or shut up. Prove your allegations, or withdraw them.

-Melin

“I’ll never argue with a lawyer again.” – The Devil Himself.

104

Check your mail Melin.

-G

105

I am also interested in these allegations.

My email address is munozrd@erols.com.

Thank you.

  • Rick
106

You should be in receipt of an email Rick

-G

107

I would like to see your “proof” too. sburch@pcquote.com

108

What the heck are you talking about? What am I lying about, specifically? How did I ban your account? Here’s a hint: I’m a moderator, not an administrator. I can’t ban anybody’s account.

He asked us to remove his account. I forwarded the request to the Admins. They did. Now you’re complaining about it? How about you calm down a bit (if that’s possible) and explain exactly what it is that I’m supposedly lying about and the points you are trying to make?

I asked you to e-mail me anything you have that might help us figure out what was going on here. You now claim to have some info, but you are apparently not going to send it to me? Instead you’re going to go around e-mailing people about what? Allegations against me? So you’re willing to publicly accuse me of being a liar, not explain what I’m supposedly lying about, and then run around behind my back about it? Well, that shows courage.

Melin, Bricker, and anybody else who is e-mailed, please feel free to contact me with any questions you have.

109

I am in receipt of an e-mail which promises to send me a copy of the Mikey-to-David e-mail by 6 PM tonight.

I will wait until 6 PM tonight. Please note that it would be much better if you did NOT cut-and-paste the mail, but rather forward the e-mail you got to me. Do you understand the difference?

Thanks! I look forward to getting this.

  • Rick
110

Of course Rick. Thats what I planned to do.
Dont be so strange. Im just involved here, not INVOLVED. I want honesty and the “straight dope” spread around here. By all.

-G

111

The parts within the quote lines were Originally posted by Gigoloman & my commentary is between the quotes themselves.

[quote]
You are a liar David.

[QUOTE]

That is an assertion. In every course in Logic or Debate I’ve attended, the next step is to provide proof of the assertion.

Well, apparently the next step is to add another assertion with no facts.

Agreed. However, I’m quite sure we’re describing separate events with the word “that.”

This makes Assertion Without Proof (AWP) #3. At least under your current persona.

You know this exactly how? And the last phrase is AWP #4.

You certainly don’t have the authority, nor even the ability, apparently, to speak for me. Therefore, you most certainly do not speak for the “corporate we” of the board members here. Just in case you weren’t paying attention: what I just did is couple a (1) Assertion and (2) a relevant fact (proof) of that assertion. Take notes next time, please.

You’re evidently afraid of your own shadow then. David has done nothing dishonest as you’ve alleged. Again prove it.

Nope; “Mikey” was the “bad guy” and proved he was not exactly in touch with Sol III by (1) posting lies and (2) trying to rescue those lies intact. It didn’t work.

Nobody’s family was put at risk. “Mikey” lied about the entire thing. Not only my posts here but Melin’s and a few other poster’s prove that. Didn’t I ask you to take notes? If you’re going to make an assertion, be prepared to defend it with facts, not shadows!

Nope. Apparently “Mikey” asked for the account to be terminated. That’s a decidedly different event than having it terminated as punishment.

What happened is that you’ve just registered on this board according to your profile. I seriously doubt, given the posting of yours I just disected, your ability to even recognize moral behaviour, let alone understand it.

[QUOTEWeasel.[/QUOTE]

Talking to yourself doesn’t really assist your assertions, either.

Granted, you very well may have been a member since June with “0 posts until now,” but I’m inclined to doubt that absent any proof. Especially since your posting above shows a complete lack of veracity.

112

The below quoted atatement is yours David:
David B
Moderator posted 01-13-2000 08:41 AM

[Moderator Hat: ON]
Gigoloman said:

quote:

I think we all crossed the line in calling his employers and family people. Shame on all of us for allowing that.

And just who is this “we all”? Did you make the alleged phone calls? Do you know who did, as you indicated above? If so, please forward the information to me or e-mail me and tell me who, specifically, in the administration told you to drop it.
In answer to others: No, there is no documented evidence that I’m aware of that the calls were made. However, in all fairness, I’m not sure what kind of documented evidence we could expect other than police subpoenas of phone records of the calls – and even if that happened, I somehow doubt the cops would turn over the info to us.

It’s time to get on with more regular SDMB stuff, folks. Mikey is gone, at least in that persona. If Gigoloman or anybody else has information about who made the alleged calls, I encourage them to e-mail me. Otherwise, there isn’t a whole lot of point in continuing this discussion.

David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator

[Moderator Hat: OFF]

In it you state that you never recieved any documentation of the incident. You and I and John John all received the same email. So you did receive documentation.

Second you then turn attention on me(gigoloman) by asking if i was a part of this incident by my use of “we” to refer to those of us on the board. This is rather misplaced and you know that. What I was referring to was the improper behaviour of those who use the board, us.

TubaDiva stated in the same thread and on one other that at no time should we be contacting employers, and attempting to verify identities and credentials, and such. This was taken too far on this thread, and unchecked by administration.

The email you received names no one in particular as the “callers”, as a kindness to them I think. So rather than sweeping the issue under the rug, perhaps you should amend the Terms Of Use agreement to include You will never invade ones provacy or contact anyone directly in contact with a board user to verify anything. Not just say, hes gone, its over. This is the fourth such threat against members of the board (one of which you received), dont you feel our safety is significant enough to maybe place and ALL BOARDS MEMO on this topic?

So lets deal with the situation honestly. Since we would rather not have contributing members and good speakers ( as in my opinion he was, and would have been) leave this board in fear for their lives. I note on quite a few other threads he was carrying on civil and educated conversations, and was well liked.

As for my comment about blocking my Username; I may have jumped to conclusions, I apologize. The timing was suspect though. You make a post in which you attempt to divert attention to me, then my ability to respond is taken away. Hence I had to re-register.

I apologize for jumping on you David, but lets see how the situation is handled from here on out.

-G

113

Monty-

Chime in only when music is needed.

Since you happened in on this half way through if not later, objectify yourself, and refrain from comment, unless its educated, and the above was just attempted slander and vitriolic spew.

When you have nothing nice to say, stay silent. From this post on I will do the same to not be labeled a hypocrite.

-G

114

Gigoloman said:

No, I received an e-mail from somebody who claimed it happened. That is not documentation. Heck, in the message you quote I specifically said I wouldn’t know what kind of “documentation” I could get, other than something from the police. But the point is, anybody could e-mail any claim to anybody else. That is most certainly not documentation.

The way it was worded, I didn’t know. You seemed to be acting like you had information.

He made the info available as part of a claim he was making. Somebody checked into it. The administration of this message board is not the mommy for everybody here. Yes, Tubadiva did eventually come thru and delete certain things, but we can’t be there every minute to make sure nobody divulges any information. In another thread, I gave enough information that users could figure out (not quite exactly, but close) some information about my family. It was pointed out to me that this was not very smart. I will be more careful in the future. But you didn’t hear me crying that nobody should have looked into it – and I wasn’t even making a specific claim like Mikey was.

If you want to make suggestions about the Terms of Service, post in “About This Message Board” – those decisions are not up to me. Also, those are things that we cannot really police. If we got specific evidence linking somebody on this message board to harassment outside the board, we would do something about it. But we can’t enforce something like that.

Indeed, that’s all I asked for.

Maybe next time you should consider asking about it instead of accusing.

When I signed on today, I noticed that several people had “Unregistered” listed by their names. I thought this suspicious so I called Tubadiva and told her. She is looking into it, but between that and the people whose sigs reverted to an old one and those who noticed they had a smaller number of messages posted than they used to (as listed in their profile), we suspect something in yesterday’s upgrade caused the board to revert to a slightly older user file. Thus, people who registered in the last few days lost their registrations. (Incidentally, I just noticed that Mikey’s registration is back, which supports this theory. But I’ll let Tubadiva know to get rid of it again.) She may post something about this, but may still be looking into it.

Indeed, let’s.

115

Situation resolved. Life in this jungle can return to normal. See proof to all that “issues” and problems can be fixed civily.

(offering my hand) David, Thank you.

-G

116

[Taking hand]

Ok, now what am I gonna do with an extra hand?! :eek:

117

Shake it. Then return it.

I need that damn thing.

-G :o)

118

Are you attempting to give me an order, punk? If so, go screw yourself. This is a free country and you will soon realize, once you’re out in the adult world as I am, what comes with that freedom. All folks here have asked for is proof of your outrageous allegations.

Bullshit. I “happened in on this” at the outset. I’ve been involved with the Straight Dope site for over three years, a good portion of that time as staff.

I have said nothing subjective in this case, unless you consider asking for proof not objective.

[QUOTEand refrain from comment,[/QUOTE]

See above about free country, punk.

I actually have received an education; and apparantly one far better than yours. An aside: many folks here are attempting to give you an education but you persist in refusing to learn. Oh, well. the junior high schools should be back in session soon.

Slander is publishing false attacks on one’s character. I have not done that. The preponderanc of evidence shows that (a) “Mikey” lied his little tush off and (b) so did you.

I spewed nothing here, punk, and certainly nothing caustic.

I gave you one heck of a good lesson in (a) debate and (b) logical argument.

Yet, you persist in your refusal to learn.

You do not dictate what I say or don’t say, punk.

What would be nice, on the other hand, would be if you wouldn’t post unless you had something TRUE to say.

I didn’t label you a hypocrite. I labeled you and “Mikey” liars. If you don’t like that particular label, there’s an easy solution: QUIT TELLING LIES!

119

Punk? As you can see David and I resolved the dispute by meeting at middle ground. Thats what matters. Dont interject yourself where you arent asked for, nor wanted.

May I ask you to show me where I lied too?

Now little prick, go wipe away the milk from your “mommas titty”.

As I can guarantee that I have in no way invited your commentary, other than to note, mind your own business, and you wont have problems.

This was between David And I, began as such and ended as such.

Thanks. The exit door to this thread is to the right, enjoy your trip.

120

You lie in asserting that “Mikey” received threats, that someone violated his “provacy” (the actual word is “privacy”) and in your accusation that David banned your account.

(An aside: the expression should be “between David and me.”)

You invited my commentary when you lied. This site is dedicated to eradicating ignorance. Truth will set you free; lies keep you, and others, ignorant.