What makes me different is simply that I don’t get off on being mean to people. I don’t enjoy trying to make people feel bad, to make them ashamed of themselves, to belittle them. As my “hysterical yammering” shows, I will still do it, obviously, when I think it’s warranted. But I will say it once, to get it all out of my system, and be done with it.
The difference is that if I suspect that I’ve mis-interpreted what someone is saying, or that I’ve over-reacted and said something in haste or in anger, I will go back and ask for clarification, or retract it, or apologize. I won’t keep beating on it until I see blood. I won’t try to change the topic. I won’t shout people down. I’m not sure if that makes me a “goddamn drama queen” or if I’m just a pussy.
And I stand by everything that I said. I don’t like how I said much of it, but I can’t honestly say I regret it. That was the calm version. And I wouldn’t have written such a long treatise if I didn’t believe it could say everything that I felt needed to be said.
I honestly don’t know what reasoned “debate” you’re looking for. If someone wants to argue that domestic violence is ever justifiable regardless of sex, or that it’s okay to jump back into another relationship immediately afterwards with no remorse, then I don’t want to be part of that discussion. Because those are completely indefensible positions.
And I don’t know what it is you’re looking for now. You’ve won. You got your way. The thread is closed, torie got completely ripped apart, and the other people in the thread who were looking to cheer her up, got mocked and belittled. And now, people are going to be much, much more reluctant to come to this message board seeking support or encouragement, however small, from fellow posters, after seeing what can happen when you trust someone to listen to your personal baggage and treat it with care.
AvhHines wasn’t getting where the venom was coming from. I explained. And, which questions did you have? Are there degrees of violence? Certainly. Does all violence deserve the same response, regardless of degree? Of course not. Saying it does just to justify your point is silly. If someone slaps me, I may or may not press charges. If, on the other hand, someone else hits me so hard it breaks bones, they’re going to jail.
Wait a minute, wait a minute—both sisters hit someone: me. I have a certain tendency to bruise, and my skin has a certain tendency to tear, and it’s going to be identical when I’m being hit by either sister. So, obviously there was a difference in the hits that these sisters inflicted upon me, right? I mean, you’d have to think so, because I got (hypothetically) significantly different injuries from one sister, compared to the other.
So, both sisters are pissed and they hit. But since one did a great deal more damage than the other, do you take into account the likely possibility that Sister #2meant to do more damage, knew that she could do more damage, and sets about to inflict more damage (and obviously does)? Or the possibility that Sister #1 likely knew that she didn’t have the strength to do much damage, or was not setting out to do much damage, but was flailing out in frustration and rage? These are not elements that would have any bearing on how you treated these sisters? You wouldn’t want to investigate what their motives or expectations (or whether they had any thoughts at all) when they hit? Or, do you think that once a person flails out, no matter how ineffectually, their actions are identical to someone who sets out (and successfully) gives a person a lot of bruises and a flat lip?
I guess I misread your question. Of course there are degrees of beatings. I didn’t even know that was a question here.
My point is that hitting can hurt and be painful without leaving bruises.
torie suggested that her boyfriend was not hurt because “it didn’t even leave a bruise”
I offer that whether or not a physical mark is left behind on a person, you can have hurt them. I’ve been hit in the chest so hard it knocked the wind out of me but no marks were left. Was I not hurt?
We don’t know both sides of the story, so I’m not going to go with torie’s as 100% on the money. It IS possible for a woman to hurt a man physically.
And yes, I would investigate motives. The fact that torie slept on the situation and got up the next day and went over and hit him meant it was not ‘in the heat of passion’, but calculated. I don’t think that counts as ‘frustration’…unless she’d like to come back and give more details.
People generally sleep on issues to KEEP from lashing out in rage.
Yes, I contributed a full third. As a matter of fact, I had given him 250 dollars the two days before he kicked me out. I had sold my bed when I moved in. So, because I did not have that 250 dollars and had gotten thrown out, I could not buy myself a bed. THAT makes me angry.
No, they hopefully sleep on issues to try to find the right thing to do. But if nothing has changed, then nothing changes. Emotions can still seem overpowering. After making some wrong decisions, torie began making some good ones. A person in that position needs to be encouraged to make more such good decisions.
Holy cow, this thread is a trainwreck. I swear my patients generally interact with each other more productively.
Holy shit, how insightful you are. I never thought of it that way. Golly gee, nobody’s ever brought that up—the concept that someone can hit someone else and cause them physical (or emotional) discomfort, and yet they aren’t black and blue! WOW! This is all new territory for me!!! :rolleyes:
Sorry, I know I’m being terribly sarcastic, but this is old, old, territory. Of course there are levels of hurt, and of course a blow can not leave a bruise but still hurt or sting. Where have I denied this possibility?
But there is also the distinct possibility that torie more closely resembled Sister #1 in her actions, and while the boyfriend may have felt discomfort at the time, and may have (probably, more like it) felt upset at what she was doing, he’s not dragging himself out of bed today, all swollen and stiff and chugging down Advils because of all the blows she inflicted. From her account, it does not appear that she inflicted blows with that level of descructive intent. Doesn’t mean what she did was cool, or insignificant, or that she should be off the hook, or that he didn’t suffer on some level.
Where do you get that it was “calculated”? I don’t recall her saying that she plotted and planned to go over there for the purpose of hitting him. Did I miss something? Or is it possible that things transpired in such a way the next day that she had a sudden outburst of emotion and flailed out at him spontaneously?
Girl!
Always keep a bunch of money separate from your guy.
That way, when you need it, it’ll be there, if you have to have a friend hold it or bank, do so.
I learned that the hard way once.
I’m coming to this thread late, so I don’t intend to get fully involved in the main issue. (I will say, though, that I generally agree with Diane and specifically agree with avhHines. IMO, I think he nailed the reason she’s been so reviled here - her objection to the culture of superficial validation that is the expected response to anyone’s claim of victimization.)
I’ve got to respond to two recent posts, though.
{post the first}
I’m sorry, but this (far too common) debating tactic is (a) stupid; and (b) really irritating. Diane has pointed out certain flawed assumptions and other defects in your position that you can’t rebut logically. So instead, you assert that your view must be equally valid, because “We’re both entitled to our opinions.”
Nonsense. I may be of the opinion that (a) atheists can’t be good Americans; (b) statistically, children in two-parent families have no advantage; (c) the theory of evolution has no merit; and (d) saying anything negative about overweight people on the SDMB is a good idea.
But I’d be wrong in each instance. And if someone pointed out my errors (an inevitability on this board), a response by me whining that “I’m entitled to my opinion” would get the scorn that it deserves.
Also, the BIG RED FONT adds nothing to your argument.
I will say one thing, though.
You’ve redeemed yourself, sir, with this post. The best thing about this board is its ability to make one reexamine one’s opinions when an uncomfortable inconsistancy in one’s views is pointed out. Although I wasn’t a participant, a recent GD thread on the hot babe teacher/middle school teenage guy news story did the same with me.
{post the second}
By the way, I wasn’t the one who used the big red font, that was a quote. But then again, since people kept misinterpreting our position, and kept saying we were condoning violence, which was false, I figured maybe they couldn’t read our posts…so the big red letters may have been easier on their eyes, and maybe they’d finally get it through their heads!
Random, much as I appreciate your thoughtful and insightful (read, you agreed with me!:D) post, I must also point out that I am a “she”, not a “he.” But don’t feel bad, I make that mistake all the time. Next Diane will be coming and telling us that he’s male.
I am here to say that I agree with Diane; I understand where she’s coming from; and I think the people who are stuck on her love affair with profanity, to the exclusion of her actual message, are thundering dunderheads.
Also, the suggestion that there is a “posse” which forms to back people up in here is preposterous.
There are several people who are very opinionated. More often than not, they agree with each other. And here’s the important part: they all enjoy reading through and posting in The Pit. It is inevitable that they’ll end up in many of the same threads, usually backing each other up.
Sometimes, already being in agreement, they will fun with each other (“magically delicious,” et al). That kind of thing happens in other threads in other forums all the time.
To imply, though, that any of these people give a “call to arms” when there is an issue on which they feel strongly, though, is utterly ridiculous. It implies a lack of capability for independent thought in people who have demonstrated themselves to be strongly independent people.
That kind of bizarre “they’re trying to be popular cheerleader kids” sneering mindset - and the idea that anyone buys into that kind of horseshit any more in the first place - reflects far more poorly on those making the accusations than on the accused, believe me.
As far as I am concerned, this is my final word on the subject.
I would like to thank Diane, Jarbaby, and others who made me examine my motives, intent, and assited me in coming to the realization that I don’t want to be seen as a victim.
Thanks to Nocturnal, Nyctea, and others for having the courage to stand up for me.
The thing I like so much about this board is that it makes me a better person. Continually I am challenged, and I like being challenged. Through this whole thread, I was hurt, sad, but never angry. (Well, except when I kept getting called a liar, but that’s water under the bridge.) Many, many comments in this thread, although painful, helped me do some objective introspection.
I am not fat, nor am I thin. I am a large girl who COULD hurt someone. As for whether or not I hurt Marc, I don’t know. I only have his word that I didn’t leave bruises. Marc and I were verbally abusive to each other. I think we both have work to do if we are both going to regain the self-esteem that we need. Marc needs the counseling just as much as I do, and I hope he gets it.
I miss him. I miss our friendship. We had such a good relationship before resentment, anger, and control wrested it away from us. Some days I get up in the morning so sad because I can’t talk to him.
And that’s how I feel. I hope this clarifies and closes some things.
Some laundromats have drop-off service, where you can dump it in the morning, they’ll do it, and you can pick it up that evening. Not sure if that’s what Torie’s talking about, but they’re fairly common in NYC, and I’ve seen a couple in Ohio, so it’s entirely possible.
[/hijack]
As far as this thread, I completely agree with everything that AvhHines said. I’ve read the whole thread with the horrified look of someone passing a deadly car accident who can’t look away.
Torie, I hope things work out the way you hope for you. Good luck with your new job.
Torie - I am glad that you are able to see the actually words that I have written and have taken them just as they were intended. In spite of the few people who blew the entire thing off into left field and created things from thin air, I have always, from your first post, been impressed that you saw the beating as something bad and that you did something about it. I not once ever thought you were undeserving of support or kindness. Never. It was the flirting that bothered me, your request and the responses. It bothered me even further that some people implied that things should be different for you because you are a weak helpless female. I am not sure whether or not you felt it, but as a strong woman (mentally, emotionally, and physically), I would have been highly insulted. It also bothered me that others were creating a monster out of your boyfriend for the good of their own argument.
As far as the other things that have been mentioned, sometimes the people who attempt to defend someone end up causing a lot more damage. I think that was definitely the case here and inspite of the harsh words that were tossed around by all sides, I think it is safe to say that I, along with those who agreed with my feelings, never thought you were unworthy of friendship or support. I hope you can see throughout this thread that those were the creations of your defenders.
The other hateful implications (the fat thing for example) were a result of people just trying to stir the shit and should be taken as such.
Yet again, I am impressed that you have taken my words as they were written and used them to reconsider how you want to be perceived. I sincerely do wish you well and hope things improve.
I see no reason to further carry with this thread.
Hama - Does this mean drill practice is cancelled?
