Seethruart:
If you have some points to make concerning the OP or relevant discussion, I invite it.
Do not hijack this thread with advertisements of your righteousness anymore.
or your stupid god damn smilies
jarbaby
I have made points relevant to this topic.
The only time I have not stuck to the topic was when someone else brought another topic up.
I guess you didn’t want to see that part of it.
There seems to be a lot of reality ignored by the people in this forum.
Seethruart
Considering the source, that’s the funniest thing I’ve read on this board in a coon’s age.
You obviously don’t believe in God. Those who truly do believe wouldn’t use that phrase.
On the day you die, you will be in for a shock.
Seethruart
Not near as funny as some of your off the wall “make it go away” explanations in that thread.
Seethruart
Well, there’s a lot of room between being absolutely Mozart-esque brilliant and being a “drudge”…
I think one of the points of encouraging kids is to get them to work hard for whatever it is they want to do. As Ukelele Ike said, that could be a lawyer, or a doctor, etc. And both of the above professions require a lot of work, but aren’t as impossible and based on chance/luck as perhaps a film star or rock musician. After all, it’s like they say- 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration.
Kids have all sorts of super-ambitious goals when they’re younger, whether it’s being an astronaut, or an actor. But for the most part, little kids don’t get attached to these professions. Eventually, one gets older, one changes, and becomes more realistic. I don’t think this will necessarily cause trauma, because what you wanted to do when you were six or seven may be completely different from what you want to do as an adult.
Plus, dealing with disapointment is a part of growing up. Maybe some kids do have to lower their expectations, but that is part of life, and not something limited to children. Adults deal with disapointment, too. In any case, I think encouraging kids too much is better than too little.
A couple of personal observations:
My first husband was the result of parents who told him he could be anything. He was SOOOOO Smart, SOOOOO Talented, etc. He ended up thinking the world owed him. He took no responsiblity. And he was disappointed that NASA wasn’t knocking on his door to make him an astronaut. Now he is perpetually underemployed and wondering why no one recognizes him for the wonder he is. (He is a really smart guy, but has never really applied himself to anything)
A friend of a friend was also told by her parents she was SOOOO bright, talented, beautiful. She bought it. She’s wondering why she isn’t recognized for being bright, talented and beautiful. She is a pretty average person.
A somewhat distant relative that at 45 is still waiting tables and pursuing his rock star dream. Guess its important to him, but I’m hoping that by 45 my kids have things like a retirement account.
Finally, I have another friend of a friend who is an astronaut. His mom told him he was talented and bright and could do anything he wanted if he worked at it. He worked his butt off, and he is now a shuttle pilot.
From this, I want my kids to have confidence in themselves. I also want them to appreciate the hard work, luck and sacrifice that goes into achieving your dreams.
Like I said, it’s different for each child and parents are responsible for deciding how much a child is pushed and how much coddled. It’s not easy to do, and no one can make the right decisions consistently without knowing the children personally and thoroughly.
Well, I would think that there’s something seriously wrong with thousands of kids killing themselves each year. . .
Honestly, though, what makes you think that those suicides are all because of parental pressure? Oh. . .wait. . .
That really helps your position. . .if the person reading it has suffers from a case of extreme ignorance. Every one of the reasons that jarbaby listed is a plausible reason for a 15 year-old to kill himself. I have 15 year old friends who are bipolar, clinically depressed, and/or suffering from drug problems. Believe me, in those cases, its not parental pressure that’s driving them to suicide/suicidal thoughts.
And, on a slight tangent, I’m friends with a family who recently lost a son to the last thing on jarbaby’s list. So yes, even that improbable one does happen. He was 17.
Now, come on, that’s just inappropriate in this kind of discussion. We’re talking about people dying, and you’re grinning at the end of every post. . .Christ Almighty. . .
I think you asked a good question and people ignored you. Let that be a lesson to you!
Personally, I don’t think that pushing children to academic, athletic or artistic success is a problem. ( unless you have RABID parents – but rabid parents are a problem no matter what. ) Pushing teenagers for the same thing is more dangerous, and pushing adults/young adults is just plain stupid. I mean, if the child spends 6 hours a day dancing and is enjoying it, what is the harm? Teaches dedication. If a young adult is doing that with no backup plans, it may lead to the waitress in LA career – not exactly the most fulfilling.
So, if you listen to a 17 year old who can’t sing worth a darned – feel free to mention that he may look at other career options. But, if an 8 year old is singing badly, for goodness sakes, don’t bring up ivory towers, and how painful it is to fall.
I still can’t play violin to save my life – but that bitter disappointment didn’t [twitch] leave any [twitch] scars.
Me’Corva
First Seethruart, let me just say, you are a freaking loon.*
But in response to the ‘limited number of reasons a 15 year old would kill themselves’, let me ask you this: Have you ever been a 15 year old? If so how long has it been? You might want to check around, there is an UNLIMITED number of reasons for a child to want to kill themselves.
you are a scary, scary individual.*
*apologies to the Mods and the Admins, but it had to be said and this thread hasn’t been moved to the 'pit yet. It won’t happen again. Miss Creant
My God, you people will argue with ANYTHING, and insult ANYONE who doesn’t agree with your fantasies, and then you whine and cry when the same thing happens to you (and you deserve it).
If anyone was reading this thread because I was participating, you can stop now, because this is the last time I will post in a thread with people who want argue over such PETTY details… The main thing is THOUSANDS OF KIDS KILL THEMSELVES EACH YEAR AND NOT A ONE OF YOU GIVE A HOOT ABOUT ANYTHING BUT YOURSELVES AND YOUR SELFISH LITTLE LIVES!
IT’S BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT KIDS COMMIT SUICIDE!
Seethruart
Please tell me where you are getting the idea that we don’t care that kids commit suicide?? I’m not seeing it. What I see is you claiming that most kids who kill themselves do it because of parental pressure, and everyone else saying they think there are lots of other reasons and that parental pressure related suicides are probably only a small fraction.
I was HIGHLY suicidal when I was 15, but it was because I have bipolar disorder. The first time I tried to kill myself I was in 6th grade. It had nothing to do with parental pressure. In fact, most kids at 15 are much more concerned with their dating prospects, popularity, getting a driver’s license etc than they are with what their parents want them to be in life.
You’ve asked jarbaby twice to cite reasons why a 15 year old would commit suicide, then ignored the reasons when she listed them. Let me list them again, and add a few specifics:
Physical/Sexual/Emotional Abuse
Drug Problems
School Pressures
Bullies
Unrequited Love
Clinical Depression
Schizophrenia
Bi Polar Disorder
Auto Erotic Asphixiation…
Boyfriend/girlfriend breakups (yes, at 15 they seem like THE BIGGEST DEAL IN THE UNIVERSE and I can tell you that I certainly got suicidally depressed when my boyfriend dumped me at that age)
Being left out of social groups
“revenge” for humiliating incidents (proving a point, they’ll be sorry when I’m dead, etc)
Failing grades
Mean teachers
Abusive relationships (friends, family, anyone)
Alcoholism (I knew plenty of alcoholics as early as junior high)
All of the above are reasons that someone at age 15 might kill themself. There are plenty of others, too. I’d say that parental pressure is probably a small-ish section of the graph.
Perhaps if you were to actually read what people read it would help your comprehension? Because I haven’t seen a single intelligent reply from you yet, but plenty of unwarranted and off the wall irrelevant accusations and such.
Yah, it’s a largely skeptical bunch here, and that’s what I find so endearing about this place. Someone brings a claim, we expect that that person will also have brought good evidence. Don’t complain if you fail to persuade with your evidence, either here or in the other threads.
I find this sentence incredibly revealing. So we don’t agree with your fantasies, huh?
Newsflash: This forum isn’t for fantasies.
**
Sounds like a promise. We’ll see how good you are about keeping it.
**
These statements I don’t intend to dignify with comment.
And if you want to rant about other Dopers here on the SDMB, there’s already a room for that. It’s called The Pit. Go there and have yourself a nice flaming barbecue if it pleases you. You might as well have a peek there, since there’s a Pit thread about you.
Have a nice life.
Um…Seethruart…you aren’t making any sense at all. This is too ridiculous to even spend time on.
Good luck with some new meds
What? like filling their heads with fantasies about tiny shuttles and clouds that are really UFOs?
Check the forum title, you might want to find another called ‘cosy delusional agreements’ and post there.
And that’s something that you’d never do, isn’t it?
Oops, yes you would.
Anyway, to get back to the OP, the desire to transcend any and every limit is why we are where we are as a species today, it’s the reason that we’re not sitting in a tree chewing leaves, it’s built in (notice how often the ‘faster than light’ question comes up on the board).
When somebody says ‘this is the limit’ ten other people start looking for a way to break it.
Personally, I think encouragement is a fine thing – so long as it’s encouragement of reasonable goals. My 14 year old daughter has cerebral palsy – she can’t walk or stand without crutches, and she also has some less serious issues with fine-motor skills. She isn’t going to be a neuro-surgeon, no matter how hard she tries. And, like most kids who’ve spent a lot of time in hospitals, she went through a period when she wanted to be a doctor. Rather than mindless encouragement of that goal, I redirected her – “I don’t know, Dori. I’m pretty sure your motor skills have to be perfect to be a surgeon. You know what you could do though? You could be a research scientist and work on curing diseases instead of just treating them.”
The doctor-thing was just a phase, though. Doe’s true love is music. She loves to sing and write songs. Her goal is to be a country music singer-songwriter. Here too, I try to encourage the possible. When she wanted to learn to play the guitar, we got her lessons. I wasn’t sure her motor-skills would be up to it, but I agreed that she should give it a shot. She’s an incredibly focused and disciplined person and she practices for an hour every day. Still, her condition limits her, and she agrees that she’ll never be a guitar-ace. However, she’s learning to read music and will be able to score and arrange her own songs someday. I have her on a waiting list for private vocal lessons. She also sings in her church and school choirs. In fact, she sang a solo of one of her own songs for Maundy Thursday services this year (beautifully, too!). However, I’m always careful to point out that fame depends on much more than talent or drive. There’s a luck component there that nobody can control. So, Doe says that her goal isn’t to become famous – her goal is to build a career around music. First choice would be the singer-songwriter thing, and she plans to work towards that goal. However, she also works hard to keep her grades up and plans to become an elementary school music teacher while working towards her big break.