Since we’re in the “Pit”, I will courteously respond by hoping that you know your limitations and
Do NOT Vote
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Nobody is denying that. Your double standard is not that you support the principle of a carceral system while opposing its abusive atrocities in practice, but that you’ve admitted you would cut ties with a family member who defended that same principle about the Chinese carceral system despite its abusive atrocities.
According to you, tolerating inconsistencies between security aims in theory and murderous oppression in practice only qualifies as a dealbreaker for family relations if the sadistic perpetrators are Chinese rather than American.
You are missing the point. All systems are flawed and any system that has humans as part of its operating conditions will potentially have atrocious behavior. There is a significant difference between the scale and severity of said atrocious behavior depending upon other properties of the system. To reiterate, we will always have some level of sadism and abuse in let us say the US prison system but to equate that with the Chinese policy of genocide is just a false equivalence.
Furthermore, you are deliberately conflating support for an overall policy with explicit agreement with every aspect of said policy. I can support the US efforts in WWII while questioning certain aspects of the effort while not supporting the Axis’s efforts and not be hypocritical or inconsistent in so doing.
The main thing is, I think it’s stupid to think one is some paragon of morality and virtue because one is ostracizing uncle Cleetus because of a MAGA hat but still shops at Wal-Mart and buys cheap Chinese goods that are made with slave labor. That is just the essence of performative outrage. But, unlike China, we are still a free country and we are free to disagree without fear of losing our kidneys and corneas to someone better connected to the regime.
But there’s a point that you’re missing, and it’s rather important. Trump has been recklessly and illegally expanding the scope of executive power with the implicit acquiescence of a cowed and dysfunctional Congress and a (so far) complicit Supreme Court. His regime is comprised of the most corrupt and incompetent sycophants who have ever held senior positions in the US government. They are rapidly and systematically dismantling the institutions of democracy, installing Trump loyalists throughout the senior echelons of the civil service and the top leadership of the military and planning major interference in the November mid-terms to ensure continued Republican power, generally following the Project 2025 blueprint.
Neo-Nazis like Stephen Miller and Tom Homan are running wild, exuberant in their new-fouind powers as democracy crumbles, and their orange master destabilizes the world order by threatening Panama and NATO allies like Denmark with reckless military force in what is supposed to be peacetime in the western hemisphere. And on the other side of the world, siding with Putin in his invasion of Ukraine.
Does this describe to you a state of affairs that is merely “flawed”? If you think this is just some “flaws” and not an immediate and existential threat to the future of America and a peaceful world order, then you’re a fucking myopic partisan moron.
As for China, yes there are major internal abuses, and there are various ways they could become a global threat, both economically and maybe even militarily. What the fuck do you propose to do about it? How about dealing with the rampant and dangerous abuses in your own homeland first?
Well since we each have exactly one vote and this is a democracy then the impact I have on the process, electorally, is ~1/(number of voters). It would be exceedingly main player syndromesque to think that my preferences should have a greater weight. What I don’t do is get on my self-congratulatory high horse about how I cut off contact with great-aunt Myrtle while still lining the pockets of the CCP.
Not only is Kimstu right about that being a false dichotomy fallacy …
It’s also analogous to accusing Mothers Against Drunk Driving of not caring about childhood diabetes.
Well, yeah. You are in fact one of the people being Pitted. You knew how horrible Trump was, and you say you didn’t even do the least you could to try and stop him. So now the war crimes and crimes against humanity that Trump is enacting are partially your fault. Blood is on your hands.
Your righteous indignation rings hollow, as does your attempt to reframe this as “they didn’t vote the way I wanted.” Both require you to ignore reality.
I suspect that it’s more about defending yourself because you feel guilty, but that’s possibly my sympathy and compassion getting in the way of my understanding of reality. I seem to do that a lot.
Huh? He posts solely in the Pit, posting in antagonistic and inflammatory ways against his political opposition. He’s very much spoiling for a fight.
Hell, the post you are replying to is doing that right now.
I think it’s you who are missing the point here.
The point is that somebody with good-faith concerns about Uyghur terrorism could similarly claim that the Xinjiang internment camps are merely unwarrantable abuses of necessary security measures, not a campaign of ethnic cleansing or genocide. Just as somebody with good-faith concerns about Palestinian terrorism in Israel could claim that slaughter in Gaza and torture of prisoners are merely unwarrantable abuses of necessary security measures, not a campaign of ethnic cleansing or genocide.
Just like you’re trying to claim about ICE abuse of detained undocumented immigrants (who aren’t even committing terrorist violence to any detectable extent, unlike some of the Palestinians or even some of the Uyghur, so the American abuses are even less excusable. In addition to the fact that American abuses are the ones that Americans ought to be more concerned about and take responsibility for opposing, since they’re being committed in our name).
To sum up, when you claim that you would feel justified in cutting off Uncle Cletus for enthusiastically supporting the abusive Chinese internment camps, but you maintain it’s overreacting and counterproductive for somebody else to cut off Uncle Cletus for enthusiastically supporting the abusive ICE raids and detentions, you are being a hypocrite. Your “family dealbreaker” conditions are riddled with double standard.
@Spice_Weasel This is the post (and poster) that brought up the idea. It sure seems to me to be specifically about those who are MAGA or openly racist, and specifically talks about whether or not you just stood silently by and did nothing.
Those activists who actually are trying to form relationships and such? They’re not idly doing nothing. They’re not just sitting it out.
@Dinsdale If you have openly told them the issues with Trump, then I don’t think you fit this either. And I do very much sympathize and empathize with your argument. I know what it’s like to have few things that make my life joyous, and limited friends. And even if they were full on MAGA, why the fuck would I let them take away this activity I enjoy? I’d just minimize contact.
Same as I use the ignore feature here for the people who make my posting experience suck. They don’t get to make me leave.
That’s what I thought when I realized it wasn’t the OP, but I couldn’t be sure.
I never used to put people on ignore but it actually makes life a lot more pleasant. There are certain people here who come off as very shrill and patronizing and whether I agree with them or not it’s just better not to have their (imagined) voice in my head.
I feel like the fact that @penultima_thule lives in Australia is relevant here.
I would argue that refusing to confront your friends’ fascism because it would disrupt your golf outings to be morally bankrupt and indistinguishable from being a fascist yourself (and also the whitest thing ever).
ETA: if you play golf with fascists, fuck you
Yes, it is. It does make it likely that the OP was not in fact pitting him. It doesn’t make the content of his posts any better, though. He still is treating voting and politics like a game, ignoring the reality, and his righteous indignation still rings hollow. It’s just that his ignorance of what is going on is a little more understandable.
His drive to opine on it becomes less understandable, though. He still seems to be taking it personally.
Okay. But what does that have to do with Dinsdale’s situation? He apparently did confront them:
Sure, he still is in the golf groups that also happen to contain these people. Why should he let these fascists push him out spaces he has every right to be in? His quitting will not in any way change anything. It would just be a performative action that would deprive him of a tool he is using to manage his mental health.
I know that your cry is coming from pain and hurt and a completely justified anger. But I just can’t let fascists deprive me of my compassion for others or my ability to see nuance and see people as people.
Dunstable is exactly why fascism thrives. Bougie little men who won’t lift a finger to make the world a better place if it means the slightest amount of discomfort. We’re talking about playing golf with a specific group of people for fucks sake. I know Afghan women who stood up to the Taliban. I know an Iraqi doctor who ran a secret clinic for people during the Saddam regime. He registers his complaint, checks it off the list and goes back to a trite life of comfort at the expense of others.
And you don’t know shit about me. It is obvious what is happening and I refuse to let people pretend they are not complicit. That does come from not being a morally bankrupt twat who looks the other way.
Thank you for making clear that I have no reason to further communicate with you.
Oh - I think we know at least a little something. 
Agreed.
I can’t completely shut off my compassion, but I can be more direct.
You are not convincing anyone that they are ignoring their complicity with fascism. You are not inspiring others to act differently.
What you want Dinsdale to do accomplishes nothing. It is not remotely equivalent to those other people who presumably were actually doing something. And few have the strength to do what they did.
You can choose to let the fascists make you hate. I will not. I will continue to see you as a hurting person who is lashing out, and not as a monster who is using fascism as an excuse to spread hate. Those are my choices, and I choose the former.
And my last act of compassion will be to refrain from speaking with you further.