You look at a teen wrong now-a-days and can get sued..How then do we discipline?

In My Humble Opinion
1

My wife and I have no kids yet. We are in our thirties and know that we want them sometime in the next decade…We had revved up careers in our twenties (and still do) and early thirties, and moved a fair bit in the last 2 years… Back and forth from the east coast to the west and back again… But we know we are going to settle here in CT…

We have a couple who we go out with on a regular basis and they are having terrible troubles with their teenage children. They have a 14 year old girl and a 16 year old boy. They Boy is actually not so bad, he seems to be the most centered of the two… However, the girl, is completely out of control. She stays out until she feels like it, and if she gets grounded she just escapes through her window and still stays out until she feels like. Her parents are sufficiantly sure she is sexually active, and quite sure she is hanging around a bunch of older kids who are into drinking and drugging.

When they try and discipline her she either says f*ck you and leaves anyway or says that if they touch her meaning a physically hold her back she will call the cops on them for domestic disturbance, or whatever she can pin on them.

The couple is at their wits end. They say that they raised her the same as the boy and yet she simply won’t listen, she is completely out of control.

They live in a nice areaand are in a pretty decent socioeconomic place, they say that it was like night and day from when she was twelve. She just all of a sudden decided to be mini-queen bitch of the universe. <- their words. :slight_smile:

So in this day and age, what can parents of teens and young adults do to discipline, especially if the kids appear to simply not give a sh*t if they call the cops or just simply won’t listen to the parents.

We wre out to dinner with the parents the other day and we were saying that when we were kids we didn’t dare talk back to our parents for fear of a hand across the face or ass. Now a days if you even look at a kid wrong they tell you they will call the police.

I just don’t know… Any ideas? Anecdotes?

2

Well, I don’t know, because I don’t have kids, either, but according to my mother, the best strategy is “to get your bluff in early”. :confused:

What I think is that these parents (your friends) are letting themselves get cowed by their daughter’s threats. I, of course, don’t know the girl, and so don’t know the likelihood that she’d actually call the authorities, but if they think she really would, then I vote for a counter-threat. For example, they could ask her if she’s thought about where she’d end up with both of her parents in jail. Does she really want to end up in foster care? (Not that foster care is a bad thing per se, but assuming that your friends are not, in fact, abusive in any way and that they’re financially stable enough to supply their kids’ needs and even some of their wants, my guess is that the girl would probably rather deal with a few parental restrictions than take a crap shoot at getting foster parents she’d consider any better.) On the street? IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER?

Well, OK, no need to go THAT far.

Truth is, kids these days (man, I just sounded ancient) do seem to come equipped with a lot of knowledge about what authority figures can and cannot get away with, but I think your friends still have a lot of wiggle room. Don’t want her sneaking out at night? Well, is there any law against putting an alarm (to prevent burglary, of course!) on her window, or heck, even Mom sleeping in her room at night? I mean, nobody would be touching her (though poor Mom wouldn’t get much sleep, I’m sure) . . .

And if all else fails, have they considered seeing a counselor?

3

First of all, you don’t get your kids taken away for a single spanking. Kids are taken out of homes with persistent patterns of abuse or injury. I’m not a user of corporal punishment myself, but I don’t think it’s always verboten. This might be one case where I’d calmly slap her across the face to see what she does. Like auntie em, I doubt she’ll actually call the authorities. Most likely she’ll crumple like a rag doll and cry.

As for the rest of it, I’d call the police on her. Report her for running away, for underage drinking. If she considers herself ready to accept the consequences of her actions, then implement those consequences. Call the parents of the home where she’s drinking. Follow her in the car if you have to to find out where she’s going and call the police from your cellphone.

I’m mean. I’d play loud tapes of newborns crying into her bedroom while she’s trying to sleep so she “gets” what unprotected sex could lead to. (Or even protected sex, seeing as I myself got pregnant at 17 using three forms of birth control.) I’d slip grotesque pictures of late stage AIDS patients into her room, tape 'em onto her mirror.

I’d also put bars on her windows and change the locks. She has no “right” to leave the house without her parents permission as she’s still a minor and they’re legally responsible for her actions. CPS will not back her up on that one, even if she does call. I wouldn’t let her go out again until she agreed to see a therapist.

Despite what she’s saying to them, she really wants to know her parents love her and will protect her. My best friend growing up was also an out-of-control teen, and she’d spend hours railing against her parents to me, telling me how much they hated her and didn’t give a shit and would rather see her dead anyway. Then she’d go home and scream at them that she wasn’t their property and they couldn’t stop her from doing what she wanted.

4

I don’t have kids, but I teach high school and know an awful lot of teenagers of all types.

There have always been teens that out of control, and throughout history, what they’ve done is left home early and had a really shitty time of it. It sounds to me like the daughter has signifigant emotional problems, which could have any number of causes, most of which are outside the parent’s control. There may have been better ways todeal with it, but it also may well be true that there really isn’t anything they could have done to make her a happy, healthy, well-adjusted person.

Parenting is one of those jobs where you have a huge amount of responsibililty and no real power. There really isn’t anything you can do to insure you won’t get a kid that fucked up, any more than you can insure you won’t get one who develops cancer. You can do things to minimize the risk, but you can’t be sure parenting won’t ultimitely involve more heartbreak than joy.

If anything has changed, it’s that we are a lot slower, as a society, to abandon a child who doesn’t conform to the family standard. And I think that’s a good thing, because sometimes they do get better. Sometimes you figure out the brain chemistry problem or they outgrow the hormone-induced insanity. But sometimes they don’t. And you have to accept that risk when you first take them home from the hospital.

5

This might be an idea, as part of an overall plan to address the situation.

But I would recommend waiting for her to make the thread, then slap her across the face, and then immediately call the police and report that she attacked her parent. Chances are, when the police arrive, she will be the one having the teen-age equivalent of a tantrum. Then let them cart her off to juvie hall for a night. Have the police search her room, too - maybe she has drugs there.

Like I say, it would have to be part of an over-all plan, but it might help to get the threats from her taken care of first.

Regards,
Shodan

6

Not a parent yet, either, so take this for what it’s worth. I am however a former elementary and middle school teacher and college student affairs administrator, so I have spent my entire professional career working with kids and young adults. When I wasn’t working I was in school learning about them and researching them.

I am shocked when I see parents showing fear of their offspring. Not “quake in your boots” fear, but threats that kids make are taken way too seriously. If the OP’s friends are not abusing their daughter, why aren’t they handing her the phone when she threatens to call the cops? This idea that you will be carted to jail for disciplining your child is ridiculous. Furthermore, even if that is the outcome, these folks aren’t willing to go to jail (and call every local TV station) over the right to discipline their kids as they see fit?

The unfortunate thing is that it’s kind of late to instill respect and regard for one’s parents at 16. I’m not saying that they haven’t been disciplinarians, but… the kid tells her parents to fuck off? There were some cardinal rules in the house I grew up - no cussing (not even words that sounded like cuss words), no disrespect, and no use of the word “hate.” We couldn’t hate anything or anybody!

I think there is a general overemphasis on being liked and being popular with kids for parents nowadays. Parenting used to be much more private. That’s both good and bad - it was easier to hide dysfunction and abuse, but it also became another venue in which grown people could complete. If I thought “fuck off” to my parents, I think I would worry that they would crawl in my brain and slap the crap out of the idea. But that is something that started as far back as I remember. As a parent, I fully intend to have the same rules in my house. A spanking and/or stern punishment (I know there are anti-spankers here, so your choice) at 4 will save a lot of heartache and arguments at 14. And not just once at 4, but repeatedly whenever the behavior arises.

As a teacher I was known for having very good discipline in my classroom. Consistency is the key. Kids didn’t get away with stuff in my classroom - I always made it clear that I knew that they weren’t paying attention, that they were ten seconds late, whatever it was. And I also made it clear that I wasn’t particularly concerned whether they liked me or not. At first it was a bluff, but eventually it was actually true. My job was to teach these kids, and if they liked me in the process, great. If not, oh well. I truly loved the kids I taught, but I’d rather they understand number sense than like me.

I think parenting has to be approached in a similar way. Because you truly love your kids, you are concerned primarily with them becoming well-adjusted citizens and good people. That mission can endure a period of time when the kid thinks you’re the worst human being alive. I certainly battled my parents through my adolescence - that is exactly what adolescents do, developmentally. But if they were concerned about how I felt about them they didn’t show it to me!

Last thing, I think a lot of kids are raised without fear. I was a good kid for the most part because I was fearful of what my parents would do if I acted up. Over time that fear became respect, and a fear of letting them down. At 17, when I towered over my parents, I didn’t fear a whuppin’ or being grounded - it was the very idea that my parents would be disappointed in me. People act like fear is a bad thing, but I should also point out that if I was in really serious trouble that I would go to them first.

7

I’d vote with calling her bluff (and the cops). I have no idea whether that will ultimately work out for the best, but it will put to rest the nonsensical notion that the Law is always on the side of the “abused” kid when it is actually the kid who is out of control.

My experience with police has been that they are pretty ready to take the side of the parents (particularly if the parents make the first call and most particularly if the kid is not showing an open wound when they get to the house). They (and prosecutors) are pretty well aware of the situation with rebellious teens and they actually prefer to get involved in the early stages than after the kid is committing felonies (or the parent has finally snapped and killed the kid).

As to the fears of the OP: remember that there are all sorts of things that you need to fear as parents–infinitesimally small chances of bad DPT, kids choking or darting out between parked cars or falling down stairs or out of trees, kids being abused by teachers or relatives, birth problems (especially among older parents), and on and on–that a fear that your child will happen to be among the really rather small percent of teens who go completely out of control should be pretty far down the list of things that would put you off parenting.

8

The real issue is we now have two generations of Americans who are raised with the belief that “they are the center of the universe.”

I have recently been trying to hire people, and they all have come in with the attitude “Well I’m here, why should you give me the job.” I read a serious book called “Generation Me,” and it is comical in the way it is presented as serious but makes suggestions on how the older generations must “cow-tow,” to the new young.

For instance when I was young I was raised to respect everyone. They got your respect. Of course they could lose it fast, but respect was given. Today every young person has the attitude, “I am me and you must EARN my respect and until that time, I give you none, unless you prove to me you’re worthy of it.”

We have lost contact with the fact we are a society. We lost the fact that OTHER people MATTER. No where is this clearer than the cell phone. For some odd reason people feel the need to have one glued to their ears at all time. They cut themselves off from every day surroundings while yelling into these things. The attitude if they don’t like it “THEY” can deal with it.

Again the message is “I am the center of the universe, I am on the cell phone because what I have to say is more important than relating to the people around me who are effected by it.”

I ask people “Why are you always on the cell phone.” The answer is “I’m bored” So instead of doing something constructive, or just enjoying their surroundings they are “killing time.”

When I ask “well if you’re killing time, then you could be bothering the person you’re talking to by taking up their time.” Of course the response is always “Well they have caller ID they simply don’t have to pick up.”

But do you see what the message is? It is “I can do whatever I want and it’s up to THE OTHER person to find a way to cope with it.” Again because they think they are the center of the universe

Unfortunately until we start to teach our children that “OTHER PEOPLE MATTER” it isn’t going to get better.

9

I think they may have to come to terms with the fact that they may in fact have to call the police, and may in fact have to take a stand. Their biggest problem is not having one of those kids who needs otherwise special treatment, they want the quintessencial family. Unfortunately I think [IMHO] that all families have some disfunction - thats just the way it is. I think calling the bluff of the child and calling the cops when she is gone would work quite well. I just don’t know.

10

As said above, the real trick is to establish control early. My US Army Captain brother is busy establishing that when he tells his boys to “come here”, they’d better Come Here. He doesn’t say it for dumb reasons, and he doesn’t do it for kicks, so when he says it, it’s for a good reason. They’re too young to have any judgement what a good reason would be, so they’ll have to trust him.

I think that the threat of calling the cops is overrated, but I don’t know for sure. In any case, I’ve often wondered why kids like this don’t have their rooms stripped to the carpet. Literally. “You won’t do as your told? Then you’ll get no amenities out of this house. The longer you behave, the more stuff you get back, starting with the bed.”

I knew a kid who was crashing in HS despite having a real brain, and I don’t understand how he still had a recent truck to drive. “Oops, your keys have disappeared.” Maybe they’ll reappear after your report card improves."

11

A kid I knew in HS stayed out too late too often, and his parents changed the locks!. He said it only took one door pounding and then sleeping in the garage session to get his attention. That’s some backbone from the parents that I admire.

12

Oh, she’s going to call the police, is she? Tell her about the joys of foster placement and group homes. If she continues to act out, take her to visit a group home for rebellious adolescents. Let her talk to the residents to see for herself how happy they are.

The parents of the girl need to stop being wusses. They need to exercise tough love NOW. They must take away her privileges, her cell phone, her allowance and her house key. They must set a curfew. If they tell her to be in the house at 9:00 p.m. they wait until 9:20 for her to come home and if she doesn’t, then they lock the door. They leave the garage door unlocked with a cot and blanket in there and that’s where she spends the night. Same thing if she crawls out the window: lock the window behind her so she can’t get back in, lock the doors and let her spend the night in the garage.

13

They won’t get sued, that’s ridiculous.

Parents can smack their kids, they can lock them in their rooms, the can physically restrain them if they need to.

Those exact words were said to me and my son very recently, by more than one police officer, on more than one occasion.

My advice - smack her in the face and call the police. If she takes off, call the police.

Have the parents speak to a counselor or someone that can guide them to better resources in the community.

My son is in the process of going through the probation office, we’re expecting a hearing and hope he’ll be put on house arrest. Right now he’s locked in his completely empty bedroom. No TV, no dresser, no phone, no games, no bed. He’s got a sleeping bag and pillow, the few clothes I’ve allowed him to have, a desk, a chair, a book, and his grooming supplies.

We’ve had the police here half a dozen times in the past couple of months, usually for his coming home at ungodly hours of the night and pounding on the doors. (I’ve set his curfew - my doors are locked at 9 on weeknights, 11 on weekends, if he’s not here by then, his sleeping bag and pillow are put outside for him.)
He’s spent the weekend in juvenile hall and will face spending more time there if he breaks his ‘preventive probation’ rules.

It’s an excruciatingly painful time here and I know firsthand how helpless these parents must feel.

I wish them the best.

14

Get a cop. Not “the cops” but a cop. One that you either know personally, or one who is the friend of a friend, or failing that, go down to the local police station, explain the situation and ask if they will do you a favour.

The cop comes over to the house in full uniform, and gives the daughter the biggest chewing out she’s ever received, and basically scares the living fuck out of her with real street stories.

This used to be a common thing for parents to do. Don’t know if it still happens much.

15

Maybe your friends should grow a pair? It’s been awhile since I’ve been a teenager, but other than a minimum wage McJob, isn’t the sole source of food, clothing, and income still Mom and Dad?
Next time their brat threatens to call the cops, take out that big leather belt with the massive nickle-plated buckle and tell them you know it takes 8 minutes for them to get there and if you’re going to jail anyway, you’re going to make it really worth the trip.

16

A cop I know was recently called out because the 13 or so year old kid had taken off, and the mom was hysterical – didn’t know where she was. During the course of the “investigation,” she discovered that (a) her daughter had a MySpace; (b) on which the daughter claimed to be 18; (c) which seemed to be supported by the provocative and scantily-clad photos of herself she’d posted on there.

The cops recommended that the mom take the page down, and take away the girl’s computer privileges. Mom says, “but she needs it for her homework.” Baloney she does; she can do her homework the old-fashioned way or, if she can demonstrate a need for a computer, she can go to the library and use one of theirs.

The cops recommended that the mom take away the girl’s cell phone. Mom says, “but I need her to have one so I can call her.” Baloney. Do it the old-fashioned way: require her to come home from school and call you from home every hour so you can check on caller i.d.

Turns out the girl had asked to go to a friend’s quinceañera and mom wouldn’t let her, so she went anyway, and then was out running around with friends. And her mom was too afraid of her to come down on her like a ton of bricks. So, the friendly neighborhood cops did – found her, dragged her home, and read her the riot act, full threatening uniform, mean voices and all.

The cop told me later that she didn’t think it would take. But she (like me) remains amazed that parents are scared of their kids. The parents in the OP have handed their kid the keys to the kingdom – they’ve shown her what they’re afraid of and she doesn’t hesitate to play that card. Who knows? Maybe there’s something in the parents’ background that makes them hesitate to call the cops, or maybe there’s something in the house they’re afraid the cops might see.

But for pete’s sake: these parents ought to take away this girl’s power. Next time she threatens them, they should pick up the phone and call the cops themselves. The daughter will quickly realize that since the cops spend the vast majority of their time dealing with miscreants, they’re very likely to be able to sum up the situation and determine precisely who the malfeasant is.

I just don’t get why it seems like so many parents let their kids get away with stuff. I realize I’m old and crotchety, but “in my day” we just didn’t sass. Maybe it’s the inflammatory media that plays that one in a billion story of the “good parents done wrong by the system,” but people shouldn’t be so credulous. Seeing something on Dateline is pretty much a good indication that it doesn’t really happen in real life.

17

Plenty of good advice here, but if the parents aren’t into spanking, I don’t think it’s wise to have them slap this child. Sounds like she deserves one, but… no. That will cause more problems than it will solve.

As others have said, any sort of privileges she has - car, phone, furniture - need to be revoked and re-introduced only when she meets the agreed-upon benchmarks.

I don’t think bringing a cop in or touring juvie hall is the solution. The enforcers have to be the parents, not a random cop. All the parents are doing here is making someone else out to be the bad guy. They need to be the bad guys.

Now, in the context of a “we’re your parents and we love you, and will do whatever it takes to help you get your shit together, because if we don’t, this is where you’ll end up” conversation, maybe that makes sense. But this young lady needs to be reminded of how dependent she is on her parents to exist, and that this protection isn’t unconditional.* She has responsibilities to manage her end of the relationship.

Sonia Montdore has good suggestions, only I’d change the locks at 9 pm. 9 means 9, not 9:20. Take it from the son of a career military man. If I was supposed to be home at 1830 hours, getting home at 1845 resulted in discipline. Pretty soon I figured out that if I was supposed to be home at 1830, I’d better start making my goodbyes at 1800, allowing for biking time and even the occasional flat tire.

  • I’m not suggesting that love is conditional. Rather, all of the nice things in life you get beyond food and shelter are conditional.
18

Agreed, with one caveat. Right now, the girl seems to think that she can call the cops, and they’ll be on her side and the parents will get in trouble. I believe that the parents ought to take that fiction away from her. The easiest way to do that is to call the cops themselves: one visit from the cops, and the girl ought to figure out pretty quickly that her favorite threat is empty.

In the book Getting to Yes, which discusses negotiation tactics, this is known as taking away her BATNA (Best Alternative To A Negotiated Agreement). Right now, she doesn’t have to agree to do what her parents say, because if she refuses, the parents are afraid of the police, so her BATNA is to threaten that she’ll complain to the police. By taking that away from her, the parents can remain the enforcers. They’ve just shifted how the game is played.

19

And on a lighter note, I’ve been told that it’s not illegal to spank; just don’t leave bruises. A few of even the lighter ones, and people start to take note. I know we did. Raising four boys meant my parents had to use the wooden spoon. Looking back, I think they might have even missed a few opportunities.

20

First off you can’t start parenting when the kid his 13. You have to start when they are babies.
You must be consistent, and fair. You must teach your kids from an early age that actions have consequences, and that even though they may have to face those consequences, you are on their side.
I did this with both of my kids and now that they are adults, they are my best friends.

Getting back to the OP. Sneaking out a window? Why do they put a frickin lock on it? DUH. Cell phone, 'puter, my space page all gone till she grows up.