You’re invited to lunch…

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

…at Fox Run (a local senior independent living facility) :confounded:

Yep, you probably guessed it from the title; that’s the glossy bi-fold postcard invite I just got in the mail. I mean, I’m sure it’s a lovely place, but I just turned 59 a couple weeks ago, fer chrissakes. Retirement is still several years away. And my ‘mental age’ is maybe mid-thirties. I’m not quite at that point yet. Sure, my house and yard can be a lot of work to fix / upgrade / maintain, but I got a few good years in me left. Tossed that glossy invite right in the trash!

Sure, maybe when I get to a certain age, a place where you have no maintenance whatsoever might have its appeal. No yard work, no fixing or replacing appliances, meals served to me if I wish. I don’t know if I could even afford a place like Fox Run though.

But then, maybe if I looked at all the money I’d save over an (X) year period not having to pay for a new roof, or a new dishwasher, or to have a giant dead tree on my property cut down, or a new well pump, etc. etc. ad nauseum (all things I’ve had to pay for over the years, more than once in the case of trees and well pumps), maybe it’s not really that expensive after all.

Hmm, wonder how difficult it would be to fish that thing out of the trash…:thinking:

2

My husband’s family started building retirement homes for some reason, and I’ve gotta say, some of the more expensive digs are pretty swank. They’ve got a swimming pool, exercise classes, a hair salon, an on-site doctor, regular field trips… don’t know if I’ll ever be able to afford a place like that, but for this homebody, it sounds like a perfect existence.

3

Yeah, that’s what the Fox Run place is like. At least, a pool is one of the amenities I noticed in my brief glance at the invite before I tossed it.

4

My late aged MIL moved into one of those. A 1BR there with all meals, limited maid service, & no need to pay for anything else was about $200/mo more = 10% more than she’d been paying for a less nice but larger 2BR apt in the same zip code plus utilities plus groceries. And she had a lot more support and a lot more available instant friends & neighbors in the Independent Living place than she had had in the ordinary apartment before. Total win.

It’s definitely not aimed at the fully able-bodied / able-minded. And although we associate losing those things with aging, all it takes is one stroke or fall off a ladder or car crash to make a spry 59yo into somebody who’d benefit greatly from their services.

I’m a few years ahead of you and likewise have no interest in Fox Run. But I admit it’s almost certainly a “when” question, not an “if” question. And as noted above, it need not be unaffordable compared to your current standard of living. Aged MIL was able to trade pretty much like for like. The same would have been available at 2 or 3x the price had she been of that higher SES. Or maybe half the price, but probably not quite. Her tastes and budget were only working/saving/middle class, not investor class. And her final home was plenty nice enough by her standards. Which are the ones that matter.


On a different but related track, over the last 11 years I’ve gone from lakefront McMansion owner to golf course house renter to high-rise condo owner to now high-rise apartment renter. I used to have about 20 reminders in my task tracker of house maintenance activities to DIY, or to hire and pay for. Every damned month. I now have zero. Yesterday late afternoon one of our light switches failed. I logged onto the facility management website and clicked a few dropdowns. At 9am today a staffer with tools & parts arrived and fixed it. My effort was a few clicks and opening my front door. My (incremental) cost was zero.

Living in a single family home (owned or rented) is a vast money and effort sink you don’t notice until you quit doing it. Much like commuting 90 minutes each way, or slamming your head against a wall, you really can’t appreciate how nice not doing it feels. Until you’re not doing it. Then you can see.

Can recommend.

5

You got time. My mother is just beginning to consider selling the house and moving to an independent living facility. She’s 81.

6

For anyone interested in a serious discussion of living alone in a detached house vs Independent Living this recent thread might be informative:

7

One thing that infuriated me when I started looking at web sites for such facilities * is that they won’t tell you what it costs to move in.

First they ask you to fill out a form…what your current house is worth, how much income you have, what your bills are for utilities and food.
Then, they offer to “get back to you” with a promise to show you how much they will save you and how wonderful your life will be. I felt like I was listening to a sleazy sales pitch from a time-share resort.

But when the move finally happened…it’s been a very,very good experience.

*(for my mother, who at age 93 wanted less hassles in life, so she decided to sell her car and house)

8

I went to a lunch / sales pitch at a similar facility a couple of years ago, and one of my initial impressions was that at 73 I was one of the youngest and most active people in the place: most of the residents seemed to be hunched over walkers or slumped in scooters. Then I noticed that contrary to the pictures in the brochure and on the website, most of the people in the dining room seemed to be sitting alone and listlessly picking at their food.

Regarding finances, renting the cheapest one bedroom apartment in the independent living section (decor: Motel 6 with drywall) would leave me about enough for a haircut and a bottle of Diet Coke a month. Of course, they would have me factor in the proceeds from selling my current house; but in my world view, that’s functionally in trust for the Ottlets. So, no.

9

One reason for that (and in my mind, the only justifiable reason) is if the facility agrees to take care of you until you die. In that case, they want to figure out how long your assets will last until you’re completely broke and have to go on Medicaid.*

Yeah, it’s sleazy, but understandable.

*My aunt was a vigorous, healthy elderly woman when she moved into assisted living. She ended up with dementia and died two weeks before her 102nd birthday. She destroyed the actuarial tables, but the facility honored their contract.

10

Some facilities are buy-in perpetual care. Others are simply monthly rentals, essentially an ordinary apartment with extra elder-relevant amenities. Knowing which you’re talking to can help make the pitch & price make a lot more sense.

11

I keep trying to tell people this - there are trade-offs to both renting and owning. Both have downsides and both have upsides.

Renting tends to have a higher per month cost for comparable accommodations BUT you don’t get hit by episodic costs. Whether it’s a doorknob falling off or the furnace needing work I pay the same amount per month. Meanwhile, the home owner might have a lower cost per month comparing rent to mortgage for comparable square footage if something goes wrong in the house then the owner is on the hook for it and might have to cough up thousands of dollars on short notice.

Either way, you do need a place to live and that’s going to cost you some money over time. Consider your priorities and capabilities when choosing. Do thorough research prior to signing on the line.

12

What would be the downside of moving into such a facility when one can still manage to live in a normal house? As is the case with me. It’s probably not safe for me to shovel a lot of snow, but I have a plowing service for that, and an enterprising kid with a lawnmowing business for the lawns. Various trees and bushes need little or no maintenance, and what they need I can handle. I can drive just fine and am nearly a decade away from things like mandatory regular vision testing. But as we previously discussed, I’m now getting really nervous about climbing on ladders so even switching out ceiling lightbulbs is a dangerous ordeal. But all I need to solve that problem is some local odd-job handyman. I find myself wondering what my next move location should be. For sure it won’t be a house, it will be some sort of apartment or condo. But now I wonder if it should be an “independent living” style of retirement community. The thought is both frightening and depressing. I like where I’m living now, notwithstanding my occasional rants about shrieking little hellions, and I’m very much a creature of habit.

13

Broadly, the downside is paying for services you don’t need. The single person who buys a club-cab 4-door pickup truck but who never carries friends or outsized cargo is another example of buying capabilities you don’t need.

I dealt with the Independent Living (“IL”) place for my late aged MIL. I’ve not lived in one myself. While my late first wife was becoming increasingly infirm we discussed the possibility that if her mobility challenges got bad enough while she was still sorta capable otherwise we might move her, and therefore me, into such a place. As well we had a standing plan that if I became dead or disabled myself, she would move into such a place promptly to get the support I was no longer able to provide. In her case I remained healthy and her mind was fine and her mobility was adequate up until her end so we never needed to execute those plans.

So for somebody who’s never lived or worked in such a place I’ve probably thought more about it than most. And with MIL spent more time there than most as well.

My own view is the critical thing IL provides is 3 square meals a day and a nurse on-station plus folks to check on you every day. As we age, our ambition is one of the things to go. Old folks slowly starve themselves to death because making nutritious meals becomes first “more effort than I care to put into it” then soon enough it’s “more effort than I can put into it”. As does grocery shopping. Soon they’re living on “tea and toast” then malnutrition sets in. Which exacerbates all their other physical and mental ailments. etc. IL stops all that. Its the ginormous Easy Button for folks for whom getting dressed, wielding a fork, and reading or TV watching is about the limit of their daily ambitions. Even though they may have more capabilities.


In your house now you have a bunch of outside services contracted to do stuff. And armed with an on-call handyman you could remain there a long time as you suggest. What I found about those service arrangements when I was a homeowner was they did not stay arranged. Gardeners would move away, turn to drugs and become useless, or whatever. Housekeepers had high turnover. The roofer I used 5 years ago had gone out of business when i needed warrantee service. etc. etc.

My vendors might be fixed, but they don’t stay fixed. So you have a continuous flux of tasks to locate and retain help. Which gets harder as we get older. And, sadly, increases the likelihood that you’ll stumble upon a crook who’ll take advantage of your depleting condition.

My solution now, as a hale 65yo, is I moved to a nice apartment in a large professionally run building. I sold my residence and invested the proceeds. I pay a bit more per month to live in fewer square feet, but the earnings from the house sale proceeds, plus the expenses and taxes and mortgage payments foregone, collectively cover that increment easily.

Now I am responsible for exactly zero except feeding myself and housework. If a lightbulb burns out I call maintenance. The fixtures in the ceiling are their responsibility not mine. I have far fewer invoices to pay every month, and no suppliers to deal with besides the local electric company & phone/internet company. Neither of which are going to move away or become drug-addicted.

By choosing to live urban I can affordably and conveniently switch to uber when I can’t drive, or to a power-scooter when I can’t walk. I don’t make use of delivery services for restaurant meals nor groceries, but Amazon does most of my hard-goods shopping for me today. Not because I can’t shop; I was at a big mall earlier today. But just because Amazon is so damned convenient = low ambition required.

All those local delivery services are available once I decide I want them, whether for infirmity or mere convenience. Plenty of young people here live on Door Dash from local restaurants and have Instacart or wal*mart do their grocery shopping and drop it at their door.

A person in my or your position can create your own “Easy-enough” button without going whole hog into IL. The residents there are decidedly decrepit. You can live there and sorta ignore them, but that’s less than ideal.

I view my situation as a good halfway house until I’m real raggedy. I may buy-in a maid service at some point, and I will end up with delivered groceries and hot meals. But shortly before even that simple life gets too hard for me, I’ll be calling a local IL place to make a move.

There’s another Doper who’s a bit older than you and moved to IL with his wife a year(?) ago. IIRC it was a bit more her infirmities than his that drove the decision. He will certainly have some useful insights if he’s willing to share. @Chefguy?

14

Preach it, sister. For the moment, I’m thrilled to be living a fully independent life with a zillion cats underfoot, a huge garden that needs lots of tending, and great outdoor opportunities nearby. Having just retired, I’m looking forward to the freedom to be active (but reclusive - “introvert” is my middle name).

HOWEVER, I know a day will come when my energy levels fall. I already get tired pretty easily, and I can’t imagine that’s going to change for the better as I age (I’m turning 65 in a few weeks).

There is a retirement community I visited years ago with my mother that I already have my heart set on (she didn’t like it, but that woman never liked ANYTHING). If it turns out to be affordable, I am so there: it’s within walking distance of the university and seniors can audit courses for free, there is also a pet shelter nearby where I could volunteer, they have a nice gym and pool, there are social activities if I change my mind about being a recluse.

It’s also one of those we’ll-keep-you-til-you-die-no-matter-what places that has progressive units for people who need more care. (That’s why it’s expensive; you basically turn over your life savings to them, they take care of you forever with a promise that even if your money runs out you can stay, and if there IS money left over when you die, your heirs get it. Nice, huh?)

15

Thank you. I know there are no quick and perfect answers, but that’s the kind of feedback from an insightful individual experienced in such matters that I was looking for.

You’re absolutely right, incidentally, about the instability of these home services. The guy who chopped down my Giant Mutant Invasive Bush with a chainsaw (the one that rose from the stump, zombie-style, several times and had to be cut down twice, and finally the zombie-spawning stump had to be subdued with multiple applications of Roundup) has moved out of town and is no longer available.

What I think I will do is check out the sorts of options that are available for a future residence, and reconcile them with my health at the time, which is currently pretty good for an ornery old fart yelling at shrieking kids to get off his lawn! :smiley:

16

That place sounds amazing. Especially being able to audit courses!

I interned for a year at one on these places when I was in social work school. The people living in the retirement center were thrilled with it. The transition into hospital care was usually rough on them. I think it’s that moment where they realized they weren’t going back home. It was especially difficult for younger people of sound mind who were too physically disabled to care for themselves. I used to entertain a woman who was a former professor moved into the hospital setting. It was hard on her because suddenly she was surrounded by people who were not as mentally capable, and she felt lonely.

I would also chat with people in late stage dementia. I can’t imagine how hard it was for the families, but for me and the dementia patient it was perfectly pleasant. I taught all these ladies Spanish and they had no idea they’d had a lesson the day before. This was a Jewish retirement facility and there was this one lady who had dementia and Wernicke’s aphasia so the words coming out of her mouth were mostly nonsense. She would talk to me at dinner like she was my hostess, and once she mentioned behind her hand that so-and-so was dating a goyim. I said, “Hey, I’m a goyim!” And she put her hand on my arm and said, “Don’t even joke about that!”

Interesting experience. I understand totally why dementia is so devastating for loved ones, but I really enjoyed spending time with the dementia patients. (There were some disturbing exceptions, like the Holocaust survivor who thought we were the gestapo, but most of them really just wanted to be gently entertained.)

17

That’s a great story!

18

I recently moved into something called low-income senior housing. Not because I wanted to. But due to financial despair, I had to sell my condo and become homeless at age 62. Thankfully a friend took me in and about a month or so afterward I finally landed a job. Not a good job, not exactly a gainful job, but a job that was enough to declare that I had the monthly income necessary to qualify for low-income housing. (That’s the catch you see, you have to show that you have enough income each month to pay rent, but not enough income to render yourself less than poor. Fortunately, in today’s expensive environment, that wasn’t difficult).

Enough about how I landed here.

This place has no pool, but unlike much of senior housing, this place offers balconies, a workout room with decent equipment, and washers and dryers in the apartments (a bonus for my allergies). It is brand spanking new and even smelled like paint and new flooring when I toured it in spring. My 1-bedroom unit has a walk-in shower with a seat but no bath. The walls are fairly thin, but luckily, the neighbor I share a bedroom wall with is quiet. The appliances are bottom-of-the-barrel Haier/GE. There is little storage space in the unit, but more is available for extra, as is underground parking. I elected for the parking as my sense of balance isn’t the best and this will save me a lot of winter grief.

The majority of the people here are older or more infirm than me. I’m not so firm, but I’m not mentally incapacitated, using a walker or electric cart, nor am I retired. (I looked into early SSI but it was below the threshold of income I need to live here.) Several don’t speak English as this is a heavily Latinx community. I don’t speak Spanish. It appears to have quite a number of widows or divorced older women and a number of adult children and grandchildren who visit. I’ve really only chatted with one other resident, on my way of becoming friends with her.

This is the first time I have lived in a large apartment complex. I’m still finding my way around the silly rules and the good rules of living in such a place. I am grateful to have a place to lay my head and not worry about my car being stolen. I am happy I don’t have to mow the lawn or shovel the driveway. The shoveling, I am no longer capable of anyway, due to degenerative disks in my back. I greatly miss having a garden.

If I had to do it again, would I move here? Probably. Though rents are dropping a bit here in the Twin Cities, to pay for the same amenities in a place not labeled low-income, I would pay at least an additional $300 a month. Trying to pay the same amount I do now, would mean a much grottier home or having to have roommates. At my age, I just say no to roommates. To rent a duplex might be cheaper rent-wise, but I would expect to pay more for utilities. I don’t have to worry about what day the recycler picks up and whether or not the grass needs mowing.

I had once sworn I wouldn’t live in senior housing. But here I am. Thing could be worse.

19

That’s irrelevant to their costs. They already know how much it costs them to house me and care for me until I die. Hint: it’s the same cost as anybody else my age who moves into the facility. Even if the other person owned a bigger house than me, and had a bigger bank account.

If they want to offer me a price based on my medical condition, that would be logical and justifiable.
But there is no justification for asking me what my house is worth before they talk to me about what their services cost…

20

You’ve laid things out well, as usual. We moved out to MN because we have family out here, not because of any infirmities (my wonky knee aside). And we are, in our mid-70s, part of the younger demographic here. We deliberately chose not to buy another house, not only because of all the costs and labor that come with home ownership, but because we didn’t want to sink the majority of our cash back into real estate. This place isn’t cheap, as it is located near downtown and near a wealthy neighborhood. But what else are we spending our cash on? We traveled a lot in our 30 years together and prior to that, so tourism isn’t a big draw for either of us now.

We pick and choose what to engage in with the other residents, but honestly most of it doesn’t appeal to me, and I’m of the sort who feels that human interaction is overrated. I’m friendly with people, but I don’t need any bosom buddies. So yeah, we’re paying somewhat for services we don’t use, but that could change. Having onsite nursing staff and the other services is a plus, especially maintenance and food prep (which, other than breakfast, is not free). I am more sedentary now as this knee heals, but plan to change that when I’m able.