Well the US as the world’s biggest market can pretty much dictate terms anywhere. The UK not so much.
But the crucial difference is that it’s now probably in the Euro zone’s best interest to be somewhat belligerent towards the UK. Better to make an example of the UK and take some economic hit, than to give good terms and watch others leave.
The UK has just one-fifth the population of the US. In fact a major reason for creating the EU in the first place was to create an economic entity with the scale and clout of the US.
The UK was not part of the essentially borderless Schengen Area, but being part of the EU did impose significant limitations on their ability to control immigration from other EU member nations. This was in fact the connection between Brexit support and xenophobia.
I doubt this will be the end of the world. But I’m curious about Scotland. They voted overwhelmingly for Britain to remain in the EU, and now they’re already starting to clamor for a new referendum on independence so they can join the EU themselves. With England out and Scotland in, would the latter have some sort of advantage over the former?
The US has far more weight than the UK (or England+Wales) alone, and far less reliance on European trade. Perhaps Britain can get deals similar to what Switzerland and Norway have, but those would assuredly not be free of EU rules. If “not having to comply” is a prerequisite, I can’t see how Britain does as well as either those, or the US. The powers in the EU have a strong incentive to not make it easy for them.
Yes. And what items it trades with the EU are in compliance with EU rules and regulations. So will the UK, except they used to have a say in 'em, and an easier time setting up local HQs and factories throughout Europe.
Now ? Fuck that.
Cornwall voted to leave, but then they demand that the British government match the money promised from the EU. That’s just…stunning.
You don’t “engage” with the Right; you avoid them or overpower them. Or you lose. You never persuade them.
Oh look - Nigel Farage has admitted that the promise that leaving the EU would free up “£350million/week to fund the NHS” may have been “a mistake”. Or as the rest of us might call it, “an obvious fucking lie”.
Gosh, Nige, it’s a pity you didn’t mention this sooner.
Any bets on the next thing the Leave campaign will admit to having lied about?
Mostly, you lose. Precisely because of that fucking idiotic attitude.
Thank you. You’re still an asshat though.
The right? I never mentioned right or left specifically on purpose. What is it about voting to leave that is intrinsically right-wing? Note that it was labour policy for many years to want to leave the E.U.
Listen, comrade, the right aren’t a homogeneous Borg. The sad thing is many of the childish intellects on the left would rather make enemies with baseless insults instead of doing the mature thing and rely on superior logic. Perhaps the demonization and reliance on emotional rhetoric is evidence of a weak position.
This is true. Say what you will about Blair, back in the day he was persuasive. And he never objected to laying out his case to people who disagreed with him.
But there are limits. Concerns over the pace and management of immigration aren’t necessarily racist (although racists will always say “too much, too quick” and its important and difficult to disentangle them from the non-racists) but “75 million Turks coming for your NHS” or “Breaking Point” were explicitly playing on racist fears and needed to be called out as such. (Even Michael Gove shuddered at “Breaking Point”).
Contrary to many posters here, I think the problem is that the “lefty commentariat” have managed both to dismiss genuine concerns AND to fail to challenge racism. Farage has been saying shit like “Hearing foreign voices on the train makes me feel uneasy” and “Traffic was bad because of immigrants” for years and he was never, ever, called out for that shit. One of the most pathetic tropes of UK debate in the past ten years has been people hammering immigration on national TV or in newspaper columns and then saying “but you’re not allowed to talk about immigration”. We talked about little else.
The truth is that although we talked about it, we didn’t do anything. And we wouldn’t, because the next truth is that this country demands immigration, in the economics 101 “supply and…” sense, which is why no-one can get it down. And politicians were all too happy to let it be understood that the reason for the housing shortage, and the jobs shortage, and the teacher shortage, and the waits at the GP office, and the decline of the UK economy outside of a few big cities, was immigration and nothing else. Which was bollocks, but not obvious bollocks. Because it’s easy to notice a foreign language on the train, or more hijabs at the school gates ,and it’s harder to notice a slow decline in investment or the steady inward migration of young people from the ex-manufacturing towns to the big cities.
[QUOTE=Gyrate]
Oh look - Nigel Farage has admitted that the promise that leaving the EU would free up “£350million/week to fund the NHS” may have been “a mistake”. Or as the rest of us might call it, “an obvious fucking lie”.
[/QUOTE]
Gotta admit though, it’s brave of him to cop to it the morning after the vote. Most politicians would have waited for their memoirs to admit their bold-faced lies.
Have you actually read any of your own posts?
Well, product compliance yes, but not labor law compliance (and a host of other regulations). It’s in the interest of both parties (the UK and the EU) to have open trade, so I don’t see why they can’t work things out.
And, as I said, I think the UK is better off in than out, but I’m not so sure that being out is as big a deal as some seem to want to make it. As an American, I’m a bit humble about telling the UK to do something that I know my own country would never do.
But should - sovereignty is overrated. We’re never going to get our Constitution-class starships built if we don’t get working on that whole Federation thing.
One World Government! One World Government! One World Government!
Does anyone have any theories as to why the Leave campaign was so particularly strong near The Wash?
Lincolnshire is an agricultural area which relies heavily on low paid migrant workers. It is not clear who is going to pick the asparagus from now on.
Maybe the English would rather look out for their own than pick up the slack for deadbeat EU countries like Greece. The EU might have had ambitions of putting on a unilateral front like the US, but remember the continent has gone through centuries of fighting. It’s hard to let bygones be bygones after that long. The US by comparison has only endured one civil war.
England also doesn’t want to have their hands tied in diplomatic limbo whenever they want to take quick action against hostile forces. London already channels multinational currency through its banks despite the Euro, as it’s always been a world hub. Maybe they’re tired of the EU telling them “Welcome to the club. You can supply the expensive brandy, right?”