I think you are a little late to the party. She spent a dozen posts explaining this and being grilled on it.
We still have some Beer in the fridge and a bag of cheese doodles[sup]TM[/sup] for the latecomers though. 
Jim
Response to the 3, or so, worthwhile points made in 6 pages:
Yes, I’m aware that it should be a “figure of speech” or a “metaphor” or a “simile” or whatever. No one thinks a dog came out of a human’s vagina. Why don’t you ask the people who originally wrote it just how they meant it – they were using to convey to us that they would sacrifice everything they had for their pet, and for the rest of us to understand it we should realize that their bond with their animal is the same as a person’s bond with their kid. I didn’t think I had to spell all that out for some of you but apparently so.
As to criticizing what other people spend their money on – yes, that’s the point, but the money really just stands for something else. It’s a stand-in for how people have let a relationship with an animal grow to the point where they think it’s on par with a human relationship, and that’s evinced by their word choice “kid”. Yeah, I think it’s crazy to go into irreparable debt BY CHOICE over a TV or a car or a home. And that extends to an animal. For an actual kid, not so crazy.
For people so het-up about me telling them how to spend their money, you sure seem to be missing the part where I don’t actually have any influence over it. But, if you ever find yourself out on an expedition with Lewis & Clark, don’t be surprised when your fellow travellers think it’s a better idea to eat your “kid” than starve to death.
(even if that’s an Urban Legend, the point still stands.)
As to why my “undies are in a twist” over it. . .well, just 'cuz. I thought the stupidity was getting out of hand and I wrote something up about it. I think you might be overestimating just how much time and energy went into the OP. (hint: little and negligible, respectively).
It wasn’t worth my energy to start parsing and quoting and responding to every point so don’t worry – they were only twisted so far.
A sound and well thought out reason.
Putz.
See, this crap is exactly why I don’t care if a thread goes on for 6 pages without responding.
When the question is “why are your undies in a twist”, I think that “just cuz” is about the appropriate level of thought and reason that should go into it.
You want to play the nitpick game, and tear sentences apart, and quote things out of context, have fun. I don’t play it – that’s the degree to which my undies are twisted.
Obviously you don’t understand. In the words of Jim Mora “You think you know, but you don’t…and you never will.”
I grew up with “pets”. Pets are hunting dogs. Pets are fish. Pets are animals like my sister’s goldens. They are animals which exist in your family, but aren’t really part of your family. I know you think I’m crazy, but what the hell do you care what relationship I have with my dogs?
Trunk, I don’t compare my relationship to my dogs with ones relationship to their children. However, I must say, for all of this “biological” love folks have for their children, I see an awfully lot of kids who aren’t treated as well as my dogs. Do I feel guilty about that? Sometimes yes, but mostly no. I can only do what I do. I am very annoyed that my dogs get better medical care than a fair number of humans, but here’s the rub: If my dogs got worse care, would any human be better off? Nope. If Miller’s dog doesn’t get his Prozac, or my dog doesn’t get his steroid shots, does davenportavenger get his meds? Nope.
My dogs are not human, but they are important to me. The fact that a person resent this, or dismisses this, kinda makes them jackass. They aren’t children, but I will not put them in unsafe situations (locked in a car, or tied up in a backyard) and if you resent this, or dismiss this, that kinda makes you a jackass. If my dogs are sick, I may have to take some time off, if people resent this, or dismiss this, that kinda makes them jackasses. And if my dogs die, I may have to take a couple of days off and if you resent this, or dismiss this, that kinda makes you a jackass.
Basically, you and you ilk are kinda jackasses.
light strand -I want to clear something up. My SIL’s dog, which could have easily stayed at home (she lives about 45 minutes away) or stayed with her husband who wasn’t feeling well and was camped out at her mother’s (about a mile away). It was a nice day about 50 degrees. Dog had water etc. Dog started out in the car–her choice–dog ended up on our dog stake thingy.
There is no way the dog wasn’t safe–I would not leave any pet in an unsafe place. Outside for a golden retriever is not unsafe–we used the dog stake thingy out back. There was NO reason for her to bring the dog with her. Dogs are not equal to humans and the same accomodations (ie hospitality) does not need to be extended to them.
I want to take your stance to the logical conclusion, though. If you want bereavement time for your dogs (and I am not and have not dimissed the affection or bond that can be present from pet owner to pet), why stop there? You want to miss a few days of work for a pet? Would you tell your boss that? Hey, I can’t go to that conference, we’re putting Fluffy to sleep on Wednesday? God knows that losing a pet is a horrible and sad event–I had a cat lost to trauma. It was god awful. Yes, as much as you don’t want to perceive this in me, that cat was a part of the family–not a kid, but an important part of my family. We had a small service for the children and even have a memorial stone out back. But there are limits–and if I were the boss, I might say take an afternoon–but never a few days. I doubt that I am in the minority.
Shall we start including the cost of obedience school in our tax bases? Instead of posters put up in local coffee shops asking for help in finding a lost dog, should we institute an Amber Alert system for pets? Where does this end? I’m not being snarky–seriously, where does this elevating pets to child status end? Will pet rescue services be added to our fire departments and police stations? What about natural disasters? Will they be deemed a failure if no human lives were lost, but x number of pets lives were? It started with the re-naming of pets into children (which is a disservice to children), now people are to assume that whomever they have invited over is welcome to bring their pet (I doubt alot of people here would even agree with that one), next is most likely the right to take the dog on the commuter trains, buses and subways…where does it end?
I don’t want bereavement for my dogs. What, I’m not allowed to take PTO when I want it, because you don’t approve of the motives?
Why can’t you just go to your SIL’s or tell her not to bring the dog?
What a lovely post.
Thank you for expressing so aptly how I feel about the animals that share my world.
No.
No.
No.
No.
It ends with people referring to their pets however they damn well please. Sorry you find it so distressing. Once again, perhaps therapy is your best bet here.
eleanorigby: I am just curious, do you really care this much about how people treat their animals (possibly) too much like kids, or are you just caught up in the debate?
Jim
Jim–it’s like a ride that won’t end! There should be a name for this phenomenon–thread-itis or something. 
tdn --thanks, but I don’t need therapy. I’ve never said that you can’t refer to your pets however you please–I’ve said I don’t think it’s appropriate. I am not the arbiter of your behavior. Why does my opinion matter so much to you? Perhaps you need therapy. :rolleyes:
light strand -well, since you didn’t stipulate that you have PTO that can be used for any purpose, I went with you going to your boss. Would you tell your boss the reason for your few days off? Or would you cover with something else? Just curious.
It was my turn to give Tgiving dinner. My SIL doesn’t cook. I would have no problem with the dog in her own house. She just showed up with the critter–she wasn’t courteous enough to even ask me–and that’s a whole 'nother thread right there.
Actually, that part is kidlike. With halfway decent treatment you get a child’s love pretty much by default as well.
Better luck with your next dog. :dubious:
I would tell my boss if he asked, yes. I generally don’t tell him why I’m taking off, because it’s none of his damn business. However, and this doesn’t have anything to do with the dogs, but more of the way that people with children take advantage of those of us who don’t: He takes off at least on day a month (w/o using PTO) for his kids, and at least one half day a week (w/o using PTO) for his kids.
It seems to me that your issue isn’t with the dog, but that she’s inconsiderate.
I feel like this is a smokers vs. non-smokers debate. Look, the vast majority of people are nice, polite, and sane. But some are not. Stop blaming the majority for what the minority does.
Ah, OK. Apologies. That never really came across in your posts. I guess I was thrown by the whole “where does it end?” thing.
Dunno, but we’re both participating in this thread, so obviously the issue is just as important to you.
One of both. Seven year old adopted. Six year old bio. Bullshit. Or as Brainiac4 says, the reptile brain that protects the young has firmly established that this is our son and we will endanger ourselves to save him.
To me, the big difference between kids and pets:
You have pets knowing you will likely outlive them - in fact, a lot of people think its not ethical to adopt a pet you won’t likely outlive (I don’t, if you adopt said pet with contingency plans - someone lined up to take care of him when you are gone). They will be dependant on you every day of their lives (well, you can leave a cat with a litterbox and a few days of food). You will give them love and affection, and they will return it (maybe not fish). Unless you are talking about a working animal, the animal isn’t likely to give back to society as a whole, although certainly it can give YOU more than you give IT. You have pets for selfish reasons.
You have kids knowing that from the day they are born they are establishing their independance from you. Your job as a parent is to help them establish this. You give them love, knowing that its very likely that they will throw it back in your face on occation. You rarely consider that your kids may not outlive you - that is a parent’s nightmare. You expect your child to give back to society as a whole, to become a productive member. Doesn’t always work out that way, but I don’t think most parents set out to raise deadbeats. If you’ve had children for selfish reasons, you are going to be a very unhappy parent.
The problem with “my animals are my kids” is that parents do an INCREDIBLE amount of work to raise independant and productive members of society. My animals are my kids acknowlegdes the love and dependance relationship a person has with either a child or a pet, but it doesn’t acknowledge the sacrifice of parenting.
Does it need to?
Well, if that comment isn’t worthy of a hearty “fuck you and the horse you rode in on,” I don’t know what is.[/childless person who thinks “nice” restaurants are inappropriate venues for small children]
I am a person with kids who also thinks Fine Restaurants are inappropriate for small children. I won’t bring them to any place fancier than the Macaroni Grill or Applebees. Diners, Friendly’s, Pancake House being the more typical.
I brought them to a non-fine but not kid friendly restaurant once and I was mortified and apologizing when the little guy had a short screaming fit. I grabbed him and took him right to the Bathroom until he calmed down.
We do have one Fine Restaurants that we still go to occasionally but they know us, we were among there first regulars when they opened. This was pre-kids. They have an alcove in the back for families with young kids and thankfully welcome us and usually make nice comments like “Its been so many months since you been here” They know we moved out of the town but they genuinely welcome us. Great German food BTW. It is called Fritzi’s and is in Howell, NJ.
Jim
People have been forming bonds with animals for as long as we’ve been around. This certainly isn’t anything new. Think of the police dogs-they are considered to be part of the force, and when a dog is killed in action, I believe they are buried with a ceremony. Cops have to depend upon their dogs in dangerous and deadly situations-sometimes it’s a matter of life and death. Are you going to scoff at a police officer who considers that dog is partner?
Look at the new movie out, Eight Below, about an explorer who goes back to rescue his dog team. Those dogs kept him alive and he feels that he has to return the favor-because they were more than just pets, they saved his life. Is that so wrong that he feels this way? (I THINK it’s based on a true story).
Guide dogs, rescue animals, horses, pet therapy, etc-for centuries, we’ve had to develop very close and trusting relationships with other species. And nobody questioned it.
My cats are not my children. They’re not people. But they are my babies. They’re soft and cuddly and cute and sweet and very friendly. They’re funny and amusing and they don’t care if I have a pimple or if I’m cranky. They just know that I’m their human and I feed them and take care of them. And that’s just fine with me.
They say people with pets generally are less stressful than those without. That having pets DOES serve a very special purpose to human beings. Why is that so bad?
Eleanorigby, could you please clarify how it is a “disservice to children?” Do you feel these pet owners are insulting your children by comparing them to animals? I can see where you’re coming from on most of your points, but this I just don’t get.
Now we’re supposed to acknowlege the “sacrifice” of parenting ,Dangerosa? Your choice to have children is of your own making, and I don’t feel beholden to aknowledge anything in regard to it.