People who pass judgement on six page threads without taking the time to read them first make ME want to fucking puke.
I think most of can agree with that. 
No, but that is why I think people get upset. There is a qualitative difference between the experience of being a pet owner and an experience of being a parent. And parents who have been up all night with a puking child sometimes lack perspective to recognize that its a metaphor. And not all pet owners believe its a metaphor, some really believe that their pets are like children and don’t understand that there is a difference.
Shall we nominate all of you for sainthood? 'Cuz is sure sounds like you’re a whole lot better than the rest of us!
Yeah, but the nitpicking and tearing sentences apart and quoting things out of context led to a very interesting discussion and a six page thread. It could’ve devolved into a simple insult contest and died in a ball of flame, which many of these threads do.
El, I think I’ve figured out the not being able to let a thread (any thread) end thing. My brother and I had a long philosophical discussion once about why people will go to crappy remakes and sequels of movies when they know it’s going to suck. After much wine, we decided it’s because there’s a comfort level there. It’s a subject matter they like and even if it isn’t as good as they want it to be, there’s a trepidation in moving on to something new.
shrug
That’s what two bottles of Pinot Noir gets you.
I’ll buy that.
Maureen, reminds me of the time at a slumber party in high school when my friends and I got into a big stupid argument over whether men who cry at emotional distress are somehow lesser men. People blow up over the stupidest shit.
If it’s not–why not start calling our children, pets? There is a perfectly good title for the animals that enrich our lives: it’s pet.
Thanks, tdn --I see your point as well. Pax.
dangerosa -nicely put.
I am bowing out of this (should I say bow-wowing out? OK-lame ass joke)–it’s been interesting and I appreciate everyone’s input re my part of things. Next time we’ll talk about something non-controversial, like the way the toilet paper is placed… 
Dayum-y’all post quick!
Only 2 bottles?
What is that famous phrase? “It’s ugly and terrible yet I cannot look away”-something like that.
Dangerosa summed it up very nicely. I admit this is hot button for me, because my own children have been treated as lesser than my mother’s dogs. I see noone here defending that. (my mother is a whole forum). As for SIL–she is the center of the universe, so there ya go.
How does one get off stage? <looks for large shepard’s hook to appear>
Society is interdependant, those of us in prime adulthood produce for everyone - children, adults, and the elderly - inside our families and for the whole of society. Children and the elderly don’t produce as much as they consume (and often produce nothing, just use resources), so its really important someone has kids so you don’t starve when you get old. You don’t need to thank me or even acknowledge it, I don’t expect it. And I certainly didn’t think “hey, lets go out and have children for Wookingpanub! He’s a childless selfish asshole who won’t have anyone to make him his oatmeal when he’s 90, we’d better have kids.” But the only way you’ll escape the truth that the children of today and the future will be providing what you need when you are old is to die young.
It would really suck to live in a world were the youngest person was 68. You see this in some religious communities - the nuns always had younger nuns to care for the older nuns. Now the “young nuns” are too old to properly care for the older nuns, and communities that have been able to be independant for generations now need outside help.
For the record, they are.
No, because most of us aren’t. A lot of parents really didn’t understand the difference between children and pets ourselves when we said “boy, those baby clothes sure on cute. And my hormones seem to be telling me something. Let’s throw out the pill!” But it helps not to belittle us by claiming that your beloved cat, who you can leave bowls of food and water out for two days and leave town for the weekend, is the equivelent of having a four year old. Parents of small children sort of lack the ability to see any similarity at all to the experience - maybe its the lack of sleep, or that your cat has never learned the “fuck song” and sung it to Grandma.
(sung to the tune of the meow mix jingle:. fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck… Funny, if it wouldn’t have been grandma - not my story by the way, a friend’s kid)
I can’t believe you said that, you big dummy! ::tosses bed pillow at Scumpup::
Let’s get back to doing each other’s hair and eating brownies.
I thought we were going to have a pillow fight in our underwear and then compare breasts!
OTOH (and just because my “devil’s advocate” button seems to be stuck in the ON position this morning and I feel like reversing my position because you OBVIOUSLY have not read the damn thread), it’s been clinically proven that animals vastly improve the quality of life, not just for society as a whole, but specifically for seniors in skilled nursing facilities and Alzheimer’s patients. They heal faster and the Alzheimer’s patients are more alert when visited by pets.
You know we don’t really do that, right?
sorry, sorry…couldn’t resist…
Please don’t ruin anymore of our Teenage fantasies. 
Jim
light strand, since we’ve corresponded on the stem cell and diabetes issue, let me run this one by you. (I wrote up a medium sized post on this yesterday, but the hampsters appear to have eaten it.) I’ve shared this anecdote in the past, so bear with me if you’ve all heard it before. When my oldest son was three, he was diagnosed with diabetes. I was fairly devastated at learning this news, knowing only the bare minimum about diabetes, and having read about the risks for serious secondary conditions and death.
When I was talking about this with a coworker, she said, “Oh, I know how you feel. My cat has diabetes.” How does that strike you? To me, it was insane to compare the two. However, I realized that she was simply trying, in a very self-centered way, to show some kind of empathy. That’s how, in general, I regard any comment to the effect of “My pets are my children.” I try to recognize that some folks cannot appreciate the marked difference between the two, generally because they have not experienced both.
Our understanding of emotions is dependent on our experience of them, and thus our scales for gauging them are not standardized. While I understand that cognitively, it does feel as if a person is minimizing my emotional experience by trying to equate their feelings for an animal with my feelings for my children. No, it’s not fair, but it is a human reaction. As an analogy, I’ve seen exchanges in group therapy that seem similar to me. For example, if you tell a rape victim that you understand the fear she felt because you were once trapped in an elevator for 15 minutes, heck it may be true. Perhaps your fear, vulnerability and desperation was actually equivalent to hers. Who can know? But in reality, the equivalence is unlikely to ring true for her, and may evoke some ire on her part.
I’m just trying to explain why I think such comparisons draw a range of responses from bemusement to hostility. For my part, it is mostly bemusement - kind of like you might feel if you’ve ridden a hair-raising roller coaster, and someone says “I know how you feel. I’ve ridden the merry-go-round!”
I’m not sure why the comparison is necessary at all. Why does a pet owner need to make the link? Without trying to compare children and pets, I’m sure that most people could grasp that pets are important and differently valued by their owners than a houseplant. (Hey, what about those people who say “my houseplants are my pets”? Fuckers!)
And just to finish off the other component I had in my original post:
Yeah, and no neighborhood child ever jumped up and bit my penis when I was eight years old. And no neighbor has yet shit on my lawn.
That would be a working animal. Someone who keeps a pet is only benefitting themselves and their family, not society as a whole. The pet is unlikely to invent new techonology, grow and harvest tomatos, manufactur windows, or roof houses. (i.e. I’m talking about economic benefit) - while at some point the child should (ideally) become ecoomically productive. Working animals are economically productive. Pets aren’t.
And I completely agree. Pets can vastly improve the quality of life of pet owners.
And I did read the whole thread. I’m adding my opinions and comments and experiences.
Don’t break your own arm patting yourself on the back there, Dangerosa :rolleyes:
And I prefer Raisin Bran. Oatmeal gives me the winds