Yeah–thinking about one of my immediate family members dying for example evokes a powerful response, if I let myself think about it for very long.
I don’t know what they are saying but it’s probably not necessary. It’s just what most people feel. Not that I mind him so much sticking his dick in someone else. As I said, if it was a one-time thing, I’d just prefer not to know about it.
It’s just a betrayal. Here is a man who professes to believe in fidelity, whom I know loves me every day, who would have a hard time forgiving me if I went out of the relationship. For him to betray all of those ideals and have an emotional affair and/or a physical affair would be hard to bear.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t forgive him or get over it. It really depends on the circumstances. I guess there’s sort of a scale, like:
- Got drunk and slept with someone? Pretty forgivable, especially since I know he would be feeling miserable
- One time thing? When he went to Vegas with his brother for the bachelor’s party I quietly packed condoms. I never counted those condoms or anything. I highly doubt anything happened - they are a bunch of young Asian men and it’s not really a common thing in Asian circles to go to hookers - but that doesn’t even cross my radar.
- Found out he was having an extensive affair, with say a coworker or something? This would be tough and hard to forgive. Also I’d wonder when he had the time. He spends all his free time with me!
But in the end I’d probably forgive him, unless he wanted to leave. If he was contrite and still loved me, we’d stay together. I love him far too much to let something like that divide us.
Yes, that makes sense. But you said so yourself - that powerful reaction occurs when you think about it too long. It’s not an immediate reaction to the thought. I think a “kick in the gut” kind of response is closely tied to the shock of the event. You can’t really imagine that impact in a hypothetical. If you craft the scenario, and contemplate it, analyzing the theoretical emotions and pondering the implications, you aren’t really simulating the shock of that unexpected moment. Feeling a powerful reaction to a hypothetical horrible event, such as losing a family member, is not the same as an intense moment of emotional impact. That’s what comes to mind, for me, when asked about the visceral reaction to an act of betrayal. The pondering the implications and emotional analysis comes after.
Knowing someone will die is very different than finding the body, for instance. Even coming to terms with an idea intellectually doesn’t necessarily prepare you for the actual fact of it.
Makes sense. I guess what I’m saying is that even pondering the possibility of her sleeping with somebody else doesn’t evoke a particularly strong negative reaction to me.
We’d talk about it. It’d all depend on why she was doing it and why she didn’t tell me, I suppose.
People have said (admittedly not without a well-founded basis in fact) that when I post about polyamory vs monogamy, I tend to express a lot of exasperated disbelief + contempt for the mono folks, as if being poly were the natural or “better” approach and mono people were benighted shallow selfish people making a mess of love and life.
Yeah, I do that sometimes. But it’s not exactly non-reciprocal. Yeesh. Some of the posts on this thread definitely give me the itch to make that kind of post in a spirit of payback. Deep feelings, meaningful connection, commitment to who you’re in love with and sexually involved with do not automatically correspond with sexual exclusivity, even if that seems to be the case for you.
Perhaps you’re not really that into her.
░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄
░░░░░░░░░░░█░░█
░░░░░░░░░░░█░░█
░░░░░░░░░░█░░░█
░░░░░░░░░█░░░░█
███████▄▄█░░░░░██████▄
▓▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░░░░░░░░░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░░░░░░░░░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░░░░░░░░░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░░░░░░░░░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░░░░░░░░░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓▓█████░░░░░░░░░█
██████▀░░░░▀▀██████▀
At the risk of continuing this polyamory vs monogamy diversion, I think it’s fascinating. I am in a monogamous relationship, and it feels right to me. As our relationship deepens, we may pursue some sort of polyamory (and yes, it is something we have discussed) , but my loyalty to my husband would remain paramount. Anyone I take as a partner would be, by definition, a secondary relationship. I completely understand that some people are not suited for monogamy, and some people are not suited to polyamory. However, the current default position of a committed relationship (that is, marriage) is monogamy. It’s written into the vows themselves. That doesn’t mean it’s better or more natural or anything like that. But it is what we are currently accustomed to. Personally I think as sexual norms change, there will a lot more people who are drawn to – and feel safe pursuing-- a polyamorous structure. At some point, it may become the default position of a committed relationship, and those who are uncomfortable with that may need to specifically seek partners who are cool with monogamy.
This hypothetical doesn’t address any of that. The default assumption in a marriage is still monogamous. The wife is having sex with someone specifically without telling the husband she was doing it. My understanding of polyamory (and I welcome correction) is that there must be communication about the desires and relationships both parties pursue. In other words, if it’s a secret, it’s not polyamory; it’s cheating.
To quote the great American philosopher, Reggie Noble, I’ll bee dat.
If I walked in on my wife having sex with someone who was not me, we would get divorced, and that’s all there is to it. I wouldn’t be interested in the question of why she was doing it, because that’s a question with no right answer, AFAIC. I understand (at least, intellectually) that some people, whether because they are polyamorous, or have a very casual/detached attitude about sex, whatever other reasons, do not consider having their partner having sex with someone else to be a breach of trust or a betrayal. As you stated in a previous post, you neither offer nor accept promises of exclusivity. Cheers to you, and others who are wired that way. I am not so wired. I am neither capable of thinking about sex like that, nor am I capable of accepting a romantic relationship on those terms.
Unless you and your wife eloped, this statement makes no sense to me.
I’d pick up the phone, call the other “man’s” wife, while they were there, and ask her if she wanted to know what her husband was up to with my wife at this particular moment.
Then I’d pack my bag and tell her I’m taking the dog with me.
Yeah, that’s the other thing: I admit that I don’t grok the poly mind, but I would have thought that there is still some communication involved. ISTM that, even in a polyamorous relationship, there ought to be a reasonable expectation that you would at least give your primary partner a heads up before hooking up with some strange.
Maybe I’m just reading it wrong, but I don’t believe that finding your partner having sex with someone else, when such an activity was already agreed upon in advance as being “on the table” in your relationship is in keeping with the spirit of the OP.
I’ve often wondered about this: can you “have it both ways,” or does “bad sex drive out good”? I.e. does “meaningful” sex with one’s loving, committed partner have as much potential to be as meaningful if you’re also having “meaningless” sex with other people? (I genuinely don’t know. It’s not as if you could do a double-blind test; and I don’t assume the answer is the same for all people.)
The other issue is, even if you’re capable of separating sex from love/connection/commitment, if the spouse you walked in on isn’t, you still have problems.
That’s right–the OP was meant not to specify a situation in which there is any preexisting understanding as to polyamory etc.
Here’s a different scenario, though. This one is meant to present a situation in which there is no hint of hiding or deception, indeed, in which “the deed” has not actually even been done. But the central element–the prospect of breaking the commitment to sexual exclusivity–remains.
Your spouse/very-committed-SO comes to you, and sits you down for a Very Serious Talk, saying, "I want you to know from the bottom of my heart that I am very much in love with you, and absolutely dedicated to our relationship. You will always come first. But lately I have come to realize something. I want us to start having sex with other people. I think it would be very enjoyable, and please understand it would mean absolutely nothing to me concerning our love for each other. It’s just that I’ve realized I no longer see any reason not to explore, other than the promises we made to each other back when we decided to get married/commit-to-each-other.
“But of course those promises still stand, and it would be wrong of me to unilaterally break it. So, ultimately, the decision is one we make together. I will not do anything unilaterally.”
So your spouse tells you that. What do you think? What should you think? How do you feel about it, and why? How should you feel about it? What feelings would it be appropriate to act out on? Etc!
Fun stuff right?
Myself, if this were to actually happen, my only concerns would be logistical. We’d have a “how to make it work” conversation rather than a "how could you do this to me’ conversation. In my gut, this seems like the “right” reaction.
What about you?
I admit I have no idea why this is. Maybe my wife and I were atypical in spending our entire year of being engaged together in a state of heightened emotion?
I mean, knowing you’re going to be married is pretty exciting isn’t it?
Sure the highest emotional state is near the proposal and near the wedding, but all decisions made in the interim are, basically, in the light of those two experiences and so I’d count them as being made in a “heightened emotional state”. You wouldn’t?
I’ll admit that I don’t score high on the jealously scale. When my fiancé talks about his exes, for example, it doesn’t faze me at all that he’s slept with them. In contrast, he gets a bit uncomfortable when my past liaisons comes up in conversation, even if its just superficially. He’s told me he just doesn’t like the idea of me being with someone else, past or present. I don’t relate to his emotional reaction at all, but I accommodate it. Perhaps over time, as the permanence of our relationship becomes easier to assume, he will lose some of this.
Feelings often don’t make intellectual sense, so I’m not surprised this subject is hard to explain in logical terms. When you boil it down, all we are is a bunch of dressed up apes who compete with each other for food, shelter, and emotional security. Anything that threatens continued access to these things can trigger within us primal feelings.
Perhaps from an evolutionary standpoint, those who don’t get jealous are less likely to work for what they want and need. And when you don’t do the work, you tend to lose out.
Ultimately I would divorce her as I don’t think it’s something I could ever get over. It’s easy to sound cold and calculating to it in a hypothetical, if this actually happened to me I’m sure it would not seem cut and and dry and I would be incredibly devastated if my wife cheated on me but I think at the end of the day it would still end in divorce because that lurking thought would always creep up in my mind again and I know I would always hold that betrayal against her and probably throw it back in her face. It wouldn’t be fair to either one of us to stay together after that.
No, I wouldn’t. From my experience, once the initial high of the proposal wore off, feelings returned to what was more of a baseline normal, and ramped up again as the wedding approached. In the interim, expectations for marriage and for each other were discussed over the course of some months, while our emotions were at that baseline. I can’t even process the idea of spending a whole year in what I would consider a heightened emotional state; I’d probably have a mental breakdown.
You’re comparing apples to oranges.
The OP is clearly about people who are in sexually exclusive relationships. That’s why people say that they’d feel not just jealousy, but shock and anger. Take away a monogamy understanding, and you’ve got a completely different set of expectations.
BTW, I was in an open relationship eons ago, and I’d still be jealous at seeing him in bed with another woman. Hell, I was jealous when I came upon him at a club dancing with another woman, even though I was there with another guy, who incidentally I’d have chosen to be with (over him) had I been given the choice. While I’ll admit to being jealous, I wasn’t shocked and certainly not angry. We’d established ground rules, and he never misled me or lied to me. Had I not run into him, but asked him the next day what he did the night prior, he’d have said, “I went out with a friend” which would have been the gentle and kind truth.
So I’ve got no issues with polyamorous relationships. I do have issues with people who lie.
It looks like we’re using the phrase in slightly different ways.
Let’s not quibble over semantics. Here’s another way to look at it. You said that unless we eloped, you have no idea why I would say the promise was made in a heightened emotional state.
That assumes that unless it is part of an elopement, no promise of sexual exclusivity is made in a heightened emotional state.
But whatever the phrase “heightened emotional state” may mean, I’m surprised if you really think that. Do you?
I intended it to be strictly ambiguous on that point, though welcoming of any filling-in-of-blanks a respondant might want to engage in.
It’s meant to be non-commital on the point, because I was trying to get at the issue of the proper reaction to the site abstracted from any promises made etc. In other words, lots of people describe, or talk in a way that assumes, an immediate visceral emotional reaction to simply the act itself. I was trying to explore that.