Actually that’s not the claim at all. I am claiming that by upping your heart rate, you burn less fat per unit of energy expended than if you were to maintain a lower heart rate.
In other words, if you exercise at 130 for 20 minutes, going, say 1.5 miles, you will burn more fat than if you just ran for 1.5 miles and had a heart rate of 160 and finished in 12 minutes.
You will also, by running, trigger your body’s response to build more muscle mass (depending on hormones, gender, etc) and while this might reduce the amount of fat you have, you will gain weight or plateau in your weight loss because your body is trying to build your endurance more than it is trying to simply burn off fat.
In a sense, yes. I started by working out on a recumbent bike and I probably didn’t have my knees in just the right position or the seat adjusted just so. But you know what? It didn’t matter it wasn’t optimal. I kept at it, got in better shape and eventually hit the road. I really didn’t need some know it all to tell me I was doing it wrong. The important thing was I was in the gym working.
Did you read your cite? It doesn’t support your contention to the extent you seem to think it does:
“Some have seized on these facts to claim that sustained low- to moderate-intensity exercise is a better way to shed flab than going all out. The point is hotly disputed”
“CONCLUSION: High heart rate intensity exercise training without dietary manipulation resulted in a decrease in body fat […] These changes were not observed after low heart rate intensity training.”
" Although there was a significant reduction in visceral fat with [high intensity exercise], there was no change in the [moderate-intensity] or [control] groups. In addition, there was a significant increase in thigh muscle attenuation in the [high intensity exercise] group. There were no changes in thigh muscle attenuation in the [moderate-intensity] or [control] groups. […] In summary, our direct comparison of exercise intensity without weight loss promotes the efficacy of [high intensity exercise] in the reduction in visceral fat"
“Results Posttesting revealed no significant between-group differences for change in weight, percent body fat, fat mass, fat-free mass, sum of skinfold measurements, or sum of circumference measurements. Mean weight loss was 0.7lb for the high-intensity group (P=.55) and 3.3lb for the low-intensity group (P=.03). Hydrostatic data revealed that each group lost an identical amount of fat (5.0lb), but the high-intensity group gained more than twice as much fat-free mass (4.3 vs 1.8lb). The greater increase in fat-free mass by the high-intensity group explains why the low-intensity group had a greater absolute weight loss.”
Hmmm…looks like I waaaaay misremembered that Cecil article. My apologies.
And csmodes, if you can’t understand the difference between having problems getting the adjustments just right on the recumbent bike vs using it in ways it was never intended (like, for instance, sitting on it backwards), you’re either being deliberately obtuse or you really are dumb.
(pre-disclaimer. Yes, I KNOW, I KNOW, some people are actually using the machines “wrong”).
Perhaps people who have the inclines on their treadmills on high are targeting their glutes and aren’t concerned during THAT particular workout whether or not they’re getting the perfect crazyjoe sanctioned cardio workout.
I frequently do that sort of workout where I have the incline high, because I have a hard time getting those strong glutes of mine to sit up and pay attention. During those workouts, I don’t really care if I’m getting cardio, though it’s nice that (as other dopers have pointed out), I am getting cardio. I am using the incline for a specific purpose.
As to the stairstepper, there are times when I bend over the rails, even though I know it means I’m not working out as hard. Even though the stairstepper is one of my fave cardio machines, my back starts to hurt during long workouts, so bending over the rails takes the arch out and relieves the strain.
And one last thing…what is it with this “oh, using the machine at it’s highest setting will ruin the machine” crap? Ummm huh? Using the machine within its designed parameters will "ruin’ it?
Heheee…Don’t worry, he’s in my beginning wt. training class! I swear, one of my students actually did that. (I thought what you did, that is, how’d he even get in there and think it was comfortable?). And this was with an Ooooold piece of crap university lat pull down machine.
Anyway, I sweetly pointed out the correct way. I can get away with it, even being a girl (well, old lady grandma), because they all know the advanced instructor is a hardnose. So I just say “when you get to “x’s” class, you’ll all want to know this”. That takes the ego issue away for them, because they all want to impress X .
It is hard for me to fathom that you really believe someone holding the bar on a treadmill constitutes using it in a way it was never intended. Not to mention the fact that the bike I was on had handrails next to the seat for getting a heart rate reading. Many times I’d have a death grip on those things for extra leverage to try and get through the toughest parts of the workout.
See, people like you are what make so many people have no desire to want to even start an exercise program. They think they need to spend hours figuring out just the right balance between cardio and weights and diet and have just the right shoes or outfit of whatever. People like you make it seem so complicated and give the impression that if you can’t do it optimally, don’t bother.
That is where I have a big problem with your OP. So what if they aren’t doing it optimally. You seem to think the choice is between an efficient workout and a non-efficient one. For most people, the choice is between a non-efficient workout and none at all. People will eventually figure it out, but in the meantime encourage them to keep working out and keep up the routine. If having the treadmill at 12 and holding onto the bar keeps them moving, isn’t that far better than having them sit on the couch watching Idol and eating cheetos?
If someone were complaining that they weren’t getting the results they wanted despite working so hard, then yeah, you’d have a valid complaint. But your OP isn’t about that. Your OP is about someone working out improperly and then you made a very, very long stretch to say how it affects you. It doesn’t.
Every time I run I see all kinds of gaits. Some are ultra-efficient while others have a wiggle in every body part, from head bobs to hip swings to big arm swings. Some have the latest running gear and others are out in torn shirts and shorts. But they all have this in common: they are out there exercising. Whenever I pass someone, I always give a little bit of encouragement, “looking good”, “nice pace”, “keep it up!”, etc. I don’t stare them down or roll my eyes because they aren’t running like a world class marathoner. Get over yourself.
If you’re doing a high incline to target your glutes, but holding on the the bar, your negating the effects of the incline. Please see my previous link: Treadmill incline.
I absolutely, totally agree, and was going to post this myself.
Exercise is exercise, and they’re out there doing it, which is a lot better then what the majority of the population does. I’ve been told that part of the reason some people, especially overweight people, don’t go to the gym is because they are worried about being judged by people like the OP.
While so-and-so my not be using the treadmill right (though I must say that if you’re trying to target the glutes, but are in effect negating the hill by holding on to the bar on incline, your workout is probably not going to be very effective), they are at least getting their heart rate up higher then it would be just sitting in front of the TV. Something is better then nothing.
Except when I do it, I’m not at the weird backward angle shown in the drawings in your cite. And when I bend over the rails, I’m not laying on them, just curved over and taking the strain off of my back. I don’t really fall into the “hanging on for dear life” category.
For instance, we have a skating machine at our gym. The “how to use” drawings show four different positions from standing and not holding the rails, all the way down to bending over with your hands on the bottom rails, and the drawings show which muscle groups you are targeting with each position. If the drawings aren’t enough, you can feel it.
So, same thing with the treadmill and stairstepper. And again, not hanging off of the back of them, bending over and you CAN feel where you are working it.
If you hike, and are walking up a steep hill, you tend to lean into the hill (even the extreme athletes doing that stupid Seward mountain climb do it). So what is the difference between climbing a real hill, where you lean into it, and climbing on the machine where you are leaning into it?
FTR, I rarely use the treadmill for cardio, only for warmups, cooldowns or to work those sneaky cheeks! And I do love it for that, with the high incline, you can feel the burn right in the apple of the cheek!
The nice thing is, when I get in the right position, I can target the glutes without bringing my quads into it too much (they don’t need AAaaany help muscling up, I try to keep them as unworked out as possible, they are the one muscle group on my body that pops if I so much as look at any sort of weight resistance training).
Which makes me think of what masterblaster was saying earlier. If I pass these people, I don’t get all eye-rollie and workie-outier than thou at them, but I do think…"ouch, that doesn’t look very comfortable!
But, when all is said and done, as (I think it was ) csmdr says “hey, at least they’re there, let them make their own mistakes, and don’t give them the attitude”.
Golly gee, you’re right. Using the equipment in an assenine way should not cause anyone to snicker behind your back. They should, in fact, come up and praise you for making such a great effort to have a good workout. Because that’s not condescending at all…
I’m not working out at the local free clinic (nor am I at the $50/month place), so the people here definitely have access to FREE resources that could help them figure out a good way to achive their objectives. In fact, some of those resources are on the damn magazine rack right next to all the cardio equipment. I’m not going to say “congrats” to some dipshit who is so uneducated about their workout and so deliberately ignorant about what to do.
For sure I’m glad to see people working out and trying to stay healthy. But bitch, please…am I not allowed to express even a little frustration about people who have no idea what they are doing and don’t seem to be interested in educating themselves? If using the machines in that way was such a good idea, I would think I’d have seen one of the trainers showing people that technique (hint – I have not, and they don’t) or I would have read about it a fitness and health magazine (need more hints?) or heard from one of the more educated people in this very thread give us examples of when it’s a great idea.
Let me paint you an analogy…
There’s this guy who loves golf, but he doesn’t have clubs. So he goes to the course and just uses a baseball bat to hit the ball off the tee. It takes forever for him to comlpete a round, and in the meantime, people wait, and bitch about it. He justifies it by saying “Hey, you should be proud that I’m outdoors and getting some exercise, besides, I wouldn’t be any quicker with a set of real clubs, because I don’t know how to use them!” Would you be so quick to make excuses for this person?
For the record, I don’t give anyone an attitude at the gym. I might silently gripe to myself, but I am polite and try to abide by rules of ettiquette, except when I am in the middle of a run and I have to pass gas…I mean, what, I’m supposed to stop running and dash to the bathroom?
But I figured I was allowed to express a little frustration here.
See, there you go again. If people aren’t spending hours trying to figure out the best way to workout they are dipshits who shouldn’t bother.
Lighten up, Francis.
Why in the world do you even care how these people workout? You keep trying to make it sound like they are somehow impeding your ability to workout and they aren’t. Not even close.
Your golf analogy sucks because they aren’t trying to play golf with a baseball bat. They are playing golf with legitimate clubs, but they are using the clubs badly. But unlike in golf where a bad player can slow you down, someone on a treadmill holding the bar isn’t a nuisance to you at all. Your analogy is a complete failure. I once played golf with a guy who had nothing but a 7 iron and a putter. From tee to green, that is all he used. I think he shot in the high 80s. A good round, but not a great one. Could he do better? Yeah, probably with a full bag of clubs and lessons and consulting magazines and the internet and you, I guess. But who the fuck cares? He kept moving along, didn’t slow anyone else down and had a good time doing it.
Again, why do you care even just a little? What frustration can it possibly be causing you?
Pardon me, Mr. Reagan, but exactly where did I say you should spend hours doing research? 15 minutes looking at a health magazine or a ten second google search (followed by 5 minutes of reading) will give you all the info you need. And the magazines are right fucking next to the cardio shit. Sit down on the bike, educate yourself, AND get exercise. How about that?
You don’t specifically say how much time you spent, but my guess is that an internet search on health, nutrition and exercise would take at least an hour just to separate the good from the bad. Add to that the fact you said you consulted “people”, not person, means you spoke with more than 1. Again, I’m guessing you spent more than 30 minutes with each person.
Whether you spent 20 minutes or 2 days researching this, it still doesn’t answer the question of why you care at all.
