[QUOTE=Apollo’s Towel]
I have no kids of my own, but had a grad school classmate with twist on this perspective: he and his wife didn’t expect the kids to be invited everywhere, but the net result was that they rarely went anywhere as a couple. Why? Well, the only people they trusted to babysit the kids were the grandparents, and neither set lived closer than five hours away. To the best of my knowledge, they kept up this for at least 15 years (from the birth of their elder daughter to when their younger son was 11). To me it sounded a little nutty/paranoid, but it wasn’t my place to tell him so.
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I could see that for myself. I won’t be having kids but if I did, I don’t know of a lot of people I would trust to babysit.
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton]
Might I hijack the thread a little to ask a related question? I’ve heard of and met a very few people who *never *go out without their children. They generally say that if you want to go out without children then you should never have had them in the first place. Do any dopers relate to that? Or can anyone explain it? It’s not a mindset with which I am familiar but I’ve never felt it was polite to question people directly.
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I love my kids. Seriously, my daughter is one of my best friends in the world, I actually enjoy hanging out with her. We talk, we giggle, we shop, we just like being around each other most of the time. As for my son - he is one of my other best friends. He and I are totally alike in so many ways, we’re usually joined at the hip. I actually feel weird when I go out without my kids, because I like having them there. Last night, we went out with my daughter, her friend, her friend’s parents and her friend’s boyfriend – and I preferred the conversation with my daughter over that with the other adults.
That being said, neither of my kids are adults, and I like being around other adults sometimes. If an invitation says (or implies) no kids are allowed, I don’t have a problem leaving mine at home – if I actually want to go to the event. Now, if the event were… say, psycho cow-orker wanted to have a BBQ and didn’t want kids there, I’d just stay home with the excuse of no babysitter, because I honestly wouldn’t want to go to the event with or without my kids.
As for people saying “if you want to go out without kids, you shouldn’t have them” well, that’s just co-dependent thinking, IMHO. Just because I have kids doesn’t mean I should have them with me every second of the day. Oh, and yeh, I really am one of those attachment parenting types – I have never kicked my kids out of my bed/bedroom. Both of them slept in my bed until they were old enough to want to sleep in their own bed. My kids are with me as much as they can be, and I enjoy it, but I am still an individual person who likes to have me time, too.
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton]
Might I hijack the thread a little to ask a related question? I’ve heard of and met a very few people who *never *go out without their children. They generally say that if you want to go out without children then you should never have had them in the first place. Do any dopers relate to that? Or can anyone explain it? It’s not a mindset with which I am familiar but I’ve never felt it was polite to question people directly.
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My parents did this. They were, of course, Indian, as am I, and all of the parties it was expected that everyone would be invited. So my mom rarely went out to white people’s parties, since they were generally “no kids”.
I don’t think it was really good for me. I missed out on quite a few experiences of learning to be alone in the evenings, or maybe with a babysitter, learning some independence. I’m not saying they should have dumped me every chance they got, but once in a while might have been good for both of us.
But I was also an only child, and easily cowed, so it wasn’t as though they got sick of me or anything.
[QUOTE=Leaffan]
Hey, I love taking my kids places. How else are they going to find out about adult situations, manners, etc? Besides, they’re little adults in training. Cut them some slack now and again and let them stay up till midnight with the adults.
If the kids aren’t invited though, you can NOT take them. Period. Rules are rules. But I would seriously question the rationality of the person who decided unilaterally that zero kids were allowed. I mean, come on. Were you not a kid once upon a time and wanted to attend some grown-up functions with your parents? Isn’t this normal? Isn’t the exclusion of kids a very, very, selfish act?
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I love taking my kids places too. I also believe they need to learn how to behave in public and with strangers and other adults. That’s why we have family outings and dinners in places like Applebee’s and Ruby Tuesdays. Those are the kind of places I can work on manners when they start to slip and take the baby to the bathroom if he throws a fit. A wedding or adult dinner is definitley not the place for that and it is not selfish of a couple on their wedding day or the neighbors down the street with an adult dinner party to expect to be able to drink, smoke, cuss or do whatever they want without yeilding to the family environment. That’s what Moe’s Family Feed Bag is for.
The thing is, most adults wouldn’t mind one bit the well-behaved kids, the ones that know how to sit quietly and stuff. However, you cant’t say to people, “I’m letting Shellibean’s kids come because they can behave, and YOUR kids are little monsters, so they ain’t invited.” So it’s easier just to have a policy of “no kids”.
Another very good reason for “adults only” is that you avoid any worries about underage drinking.
[QUOTE=Anaamika]
The thing is, most adults wouldn’t mind one bit the well-behaved kids, the ones that know how to sit quietly and stuff. However, you cant’t say to people, “I’m letting Shellibean’s kids come because they can behave, and YOUR kids are little monsters, so they ain’t invited.” So it’s easier just to have a policy of “no kids”.
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Heh. $20 says it’s most often the kids of the parents who would willingly leave them at home who the hosts would least mind having present. I know it’s a broad brush, but I’m a broad who’s seen a lot of parent/child units over the years as a nanny and babysitter, and it’s the ones who are shocked at the idea of separation who also tend to be clueless as to when their little angels are being obnoxious.
[QUOTE=Anaamika]
The thing is, most adults wouldn’t mind one bit the well-behaved kids, the ones that know how to sit quietly and stuff. However, you cant’t say to people, “I’m letting Shellibean’s kids come because they can behave, and YOUR kids are little monsters, so they ain’t invited.” So it’s easier just to have a policy of “no kids”.
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Well, you could say that if you don’t want the adults to actually come but have to send out an invitation for some reason anyway.
Yeah, just don’t use my kids as examples because when they are good they are very very good. When they are bad they are horrid. No curls in the middle of the forhead, though. 
[QUOTE=Anaamika]
The thing is, most adults wouldn’t mind one bit the well-behaved kids, the ones that know how to sit quietly and stuff. However, you cant’t say to people, “I’m letting Shellibean’s kids come because they can behave, and YOUR kids are little monsters, so they ain’t invited.” So it’s easier just to have a policy of “no kids”.
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Exactly! I’m sure most of us know people who have children with no concept of proper behavior or table manners, even if they are really old enough to have learned the basics. Some kids have lovely manners even at a very young age, and some parents don’t bother. If everyone took their children out when they started screaming, or began to run around, I would bet we would see a few less “no children please” invitations. But there are too many parents who don’t see that their Princess is an entitled little terror, so the rules can’t possibly apply to her!
And I am simply stunned by parents who would take a child to a wedding where it was not only not invited by specifically requested not to come!
MissGypsy, you might want to check with local nursing agencies. I have no idea how much a regular babysitter charges, but you might be able to find an LPN with special needs experience who wouldn’t be terribly expensive.
[QUOTE=ShelliBean]
Yeah, just don’t use my kids as examples because when they are good they are very very good. When they are bad they are horrid. No curls in the middle of the forhead, though. 
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Don’t worry, they used to say that about me, too, and I do in fact have the curl in the middle of my forehead. or could if I chose.
[QUOTE=Anaamika]
The thing is, most adults wouldn’t mind one bit the well-behaved kids, the ones that know how to sit quietly and stuff. However, you cant’t say to people, “I’m letting Shellibean’s kids come because they can behave, and YOUR kids are little monsters, so they ain’t invited.” So it’s easier just to have a policy of “no kids”.
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Oof - this started a kerfuffle in our family years ago. My parents were having a superbowl party which is by nature a casual family affair. They invited all my dad’s siblings and families except for one. His brother had three kids that were terribly behaved. When they had been over the previous month for Christmas they trashed the house. My parents were finding damage for a week after the party. They ran like maniacs all over the place. At one point another adult stopped one of the kids and reprimanded him for running as he nearly stepped on a baby (it was a crowded party). The rotten kid’s parents were angry that someone else reprimanded their kid.
Instead of having a no kids policy, they just didn’t invite the family with the poorly behaved kids. Of course word got out and the parents were ticked. Life went on.
And for the people who say if you you’re not going to take your kids everywhere then you shouldn’t have had any, by that same logic I married my husband so I should never leave the house without him. Otherwise why did we get married?
I am an individual. Sometimes I like to do family things, sometimes I like to do couples things, and on rare occasions I leave the house all by myself and go out like a big girl. The all of us or none of us concept is silly.
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady]
And I am simply stunned by parents who would take a child to a wedding where it was not only not invited by specifically requested not to come!
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IIRC, there was a very contentious thread a couple of years ago on this very subject. The OP of that thread had received a wedding invite addressed to himself and his wife, and somehow the subject of his two very young children came up in a conversation with the bride or groom or one of their parents. When informed that his tots were, in fact, not invited, the OP had a hissy fit and decided not to go.
He posted about it here, and like this thread, most people agreed that kids don’t have to go every-freaking-where, and that if their names are not specifically included in the invitation, then that should be a clue that They Aren’t Invited.
The OP was just appalled that his kids wouldn’t automatically be invited, even though the invitation just said, “Mr. & Mrs.” They were planning on just showing up with two kids in tow.
[QUOTE=BiblioCat]
The OP was just appalled that his kids wouldn’t automatically be invited, even though the invitation just said, “Mr. & Mrs.” They were planning on just showing up with two kids in tow.
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Yes, you do recall correctly, although I think he said it was his girlfriend who was appalled? Either way, it’s a cultural difference. Spanish culture and Indian culture for example, don’t understand not inviting kids. American culture does. I live in both, so I understand both, but it is very rude to get mad because your kids aren’t invited and downright hostile to bring them anyway.
People should just shrug it off as differences in opinion. “They don’t want my kids, I don’t go without my kids, so they’ll do without my presence.” Everyone has to take things so personally.
I agree, btw, that the parents of the hellions are always the ones that think “Why wouldn’t they want my adorable little duddykins?”
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Heh. $20 says it’s most often the kids of the parents who would willingly leave them at home who the hosts would least mind having present. I know it’s a broad brush, but I’m a broad who’s seen a lot of parent/child units over the years as a nanny and babysitter, and it’s the ones who are shocked at the idea of separation who also tend to be clueless as to when their little angels are being obnoxious.
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I have often found this to be the case, too. The same acqaintances of mine who can’t fathom leaving their “little angel” at home for an evening out are the same ones who not only were completely clueless when their kid was trashing my house but who also didn’t notice their child had fallen down our basement stairs until the screaming had reached an unearthly pitch and my husband and I had already picked him up to quiet him down (this was before we had children - now we have a baby gate there). These people are also frequently rude and obnoxious, though their child seems to have improved with age for whatever reason.
In my case, it’s because I was touched inappropriately by a babysitter. Certainly the vast majority of sitters would be fine, but I don’t know if I could take the chance. I was brought up to be very polite and wouldn’t have dreamed of making a scene.
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net]
Children were at the wedding ceremony (I was ringbearer, my sister & cousin were flowergirls, etc.), but it was in church and we all knew how to behave in church.
But children were NOT invited to the reception & other events afterwards. Instead, the groom’s father had arranged for some teenage chaperons to take us all to a nearby amusement park for the rest of the day. We had an incredible time riding the rides, watching the shows, eating hot dogs & cotton candy, etc. Possibly the adults had just as much fun at their adults-only reception with no kids to worry about, but I doubt it.
I’d think more people ought to arrange this for their weddings.
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This is generally the model that is used in my family on my mother’s side. We are spread around the east coast pretty well so when there is a wedding, everyone wants to come and see everyone else. Children always attend and participate in the ceremony but then half the time the adults get the teenage and younger relatives to take the little ones to the fair, beach, circus or whatever during the reception.
Of course, weddings in my family are weekend long family events anyway so that one night really isn’t missed. On my dad’s side, the kids are always welcome.
[QUOTE=overlyverbose]
I have often found this to be the case, too. The same acqaintances of mine who can’t fathom leaving their “little angel” at home for an evening out are the same ones who not only were completely clueless when their kid was trashing my house but who also didn’t notice their child had fallen down our basement stairs until the screaming had reached an unearthly pitch and my husband and I had already picked him up to quiet him down (this was before we had children - now we have a baby gate there). These people are also frequently rude and obnoxious, though their child seems to have improved with age for whatever reason.
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Here here. Believe me, my kids are very well behaved. I would never dream of taking them where they are explicitly not invited, but I believe that by including them wherever possible this is exactly how they learn to be well behaved! And it shows them that you, and your friends, enjoy their company. We’re trying to raise little people here, not dogs or mushrooms! As I stated before, sometimes hanging with kids at social events is more fun than being with the adults!
My kids are now adults, but there was only one case where we minded them not being invited, and didn’t go. My alumni club had a tradition of a family Christmas party. Some DINKS took over, and changed it to an adult only party. That initiated my final break, since the club seemed to have moved from a club for whole family to a club for yuppies.
But besides that special case, of course we went. And we made it a practice to go out by ourselves whenever possible also. We know kids who have never been away from their parents even for a night, and that’s sad.
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady]
MissGypsy, you might want to check with local nursing agencies. I have no idea how much a regular babysitter charges, but you might be able to find an LPN with special needs experience who wouldn’t be terribly expensive.
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Thanks for the idea! I hadn’t thought of that, yet, but I’ll give it a try.