Zimmerman pulls family from overturned SUV: True or not true?

[TriPolar]

Worst conspiracy theory ever.

[DSeid]

@YogSosoth

… I don’t like GZ, I think he got away with murder, I think SYG laws are stupid and encourage people to kill, and I think he was branded a conservative hero because he used a gun and killed a black kid, both of which fit into the conservative narrative that guns help people and black people are dangerous. I will come right out and say it: I hope this was a stupidly done conspiracy, I hope the cop was purposefully calling GZ to try to get him credit, and I hope it all blows up in their face

That said, if it really was a coincidence, then good job GZ, you did a small bit in making up for the murder you dodged. He’s still a murderer, and may still be a racist shithead, but at least his desire to clear his name can lead to good outcomes like this. …

What a strange reaction. What a childish view of the world: people are heroes or villains. A villain is incapable of having any worthy motivations and heroes always wear white hats. The world really is Saturday morning superhero cartoons to some people.

The way I see it Zimmerman is without question a person who has some desire to be a hero, a person who aint all that smart, a person who made some very bad judgements, certainly some that were based on appearances, that resulted in the death of teen aged kid, his fault even if not a crime, and a person who wants to do good things. He is not a villain and he is not a hero. The same desire to try be more than he is, to view himself as the hero in the movie he views himself starring in (many of us imagine that camera, I know I do), coupled with his human flaws and being armed with a gun caused the death of a typical kid just out and about, and coupled with a fire extinguisher helped get people out of a dangerous situation.

Real people are never Luke Skywalker and are very rarely Darth Vader. Deal with it.

[friendlessboob]

@DSeid

What a strange reaction. What a childish view of the world: people are heroes or villains. A villain is incapable of having any worthy motivations and heroes always wear white hats. The world really is Saturday morning superhero cartoons to some people.

The way I see it Zimmerman is without question a person who has some desire to be a hero, a person who aint all that smart, a person who made some very bad judgements, certainly some that were based on appearances, that resulted in the death of teen aged kid, his fault even if not a crime, and a person who wants to do good things. He is not a villain and he is not a hero. The same desire to try be more than he is, to view himself as the hero in the movie he views himself starring in (many of us imagine that camera, I know I do), coupled with his human flaws and being armed with a gun caused the death of a typical kid just out and about, and coupled with a fire extinguisher helped get people out of a dangerous situation.

Real people are never Luke Skywalker and are very rarely Darth Vader. Deal with it.

This is why Straightdope reminds me that not all of us are tools (I am a tool, but clearly DSeid is not). Giving a reasonable summary of a complex issue with subtle, but well made, points is a rare gift. You got a gift son, don’t hide it under a bushel basket.

[Shodan]

@astro

You should have run for you life!

In Florida you are allowed to stand your ground against exploding cars.

Regards,
Shodan

[Claverhouse]

In most continental countries a load of stuff is required or recommended for drivers, fire extinguishers are recommended by all.

Halfords
As for the obvious conspiracy it goes right up to the top. All the presidents, past and present, met in conclave along with the security heads and planned this to engineer a PR stunt for old George.

But stop, who knows ? If they can manage this, perhaps the whole Zimmerman Affair was manufactured to bring in gun control; perhaps the whole State of Florida is a gigantic hoax; perhaps Castro is behind it ?

[YogSothoth]

@Bricker

I appreciate your honesty, but consider what it reveals: you’re not neutrally seeking information, or open to information that may cause you to rethink your impressions, so much as you’re actively rooting for real events to confirm your suspicions.

No, you think it doesn’t, but there exist people in the world who can be intellectually for one thing, but accept reality if it differs. I’m not a Republican nor am I a conservative, so I will accept honest information if it appears. That doesn’t mean, however, I won’t more closely scrutinize conflicting information, nor does it mean my standard of evidence should be the same as someone who supports GZ. I am as open to rethinking my impressions as anyone, but that doesn’t mean I have to accept everything just to appear neutral. Since the rumors are out there that this might be a setup to make GZ look good, it makes me prudent, not biased, to want to look into it more

@DSeid

What a strange reaction. What a childish view of the world: people are heroes or villains. A villain is incapable of having any worthy motivations and heroes always wear white hats. The world really is Saturday morning superhero cartoons to some people.

Wrong. I think THIS villain is incapable of having worthy motivations. I think THIS villain racially profiled a kid then shot him trying to be a hero but was actually a reckless lunatic with a gun. If he had lived in CA or somewhere where SYG laws didn’t exist, he wouldn’t have went after TM himself and would have instead left him alone or called the police. Don’t mistake what I think about this guy to what I think of the world in general

[Algher]

@YogSosoth

No, you think it doesn’t, but there exist people in the world who can be intellectually for one thing, but accept reality if it differs. I’m not a Republican nor am I a conservative, so I will accept honest information if it appears. That doesn’t mean, however, I won’t more closely scrutinize conflicting information, nor does it mean my standard of evidence should be the same as someone who supports GZ. I am as open to rethinking my impressions as anyone, but that doesn’t mean I have to accept everything just to appear neutral. Since the rumors are out there that this might be a setup to make GZ look good, it makes me prudent, not biased, to want to look into it more

Wrong. I think THIS villain is incapable of having worthy motivations. I think THIS villain racially profiled a kid then shot him trying to be a hero but was actually a reckless lunatic with a gun. If he had lived in CA or somewhere where SYG laws didn’t exist, he wouldn’t have went after TM himself and would have instead left him alone or called the police. Don’t mistake what I think about this guy to what I think of the world in general

California has self defense laws as well, and in some communities a concealed weapons permit is available. It is entirely possible that 12 people on a California jury would have ended up in the same place - with one story, and a self-defense argument in favor of acquittal.

The whole thing is a tragedy. Zimmerman helping out a family with a smoking car just shows that he is human. It doesn’t make him a hero, it just puts him in that situation a slight step ahead of those who keep walking/driving.

[YogSothoth]

Maybe you’re right about if the case was tried here Algher, but I personally believe we’re not as bad as Florida

[Bricker]

@YogSosoth

No, you think it doesn’t, but there exist people in the world who can be intellectually for one thing, but accept reality if it differs. I’m not a Republican nor am I a conservative, so I will accept honest information if it appears. That doesn’t mean, however, I won’t more closely scrutinize conflicting information, nor does it mean my standard of evidence should be the same as someone who supports GZ. I am as open to rethinking my impressions as anyone, but that doesn’t mean I have to accept everything just to appear neutral. Since the rumors are out there that this might be a setup to make GZ look good, it makes me prudent, not biased, to want to look into it more

The noted luminary R. P. Feynman gave a speech in which he showed rather well the dangers of that approach:

@Feynman's Caltech commencement address

We have learned a lot from experience about how to handle some of the ways we fool ourselves. One example: Millikan measured the charge on an electron by an experiment with falling oil drops, and got an answer which we now know not to be quite right. It’s a little bit off, because he had the incorrect value for the viscosity of air. It’s interesting to look at the history of measurements of the charge of the electron, after Millikan. If you plot them as a function of time, you find that one is a little bigger than Millikan’s, and the next one’s a little bit bigger than that, and the next one’s a little bit bigger than that, until finally they settle down to a number which is higher.

Why didn’t they discover that the new number was higher right away? It’s a thing that scientists are ashamed of–this history–because it’s apparent that people did things like this: When they got a number that was too high above Millikan’s, they thought something must be wrong–and they would look for and find a reason why something might be wrong. When they got a number closer to Millikan’s value they didn’t look so hard. And so they eliminated the numbers that were too far off, and did other things like that. We’ve learned those tricks nowadays, and now we don’t have that kind of a disease.

[Algher]

@YogSosoth

Maybe you’re right about if the case was tried here Algher, but I personally believe we’re not as bad as Florida

Yeah, but we let OJ and the LAPD King guys walk - not sure if we can really claim superiority.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[YogSothoth]

@Bricker

The noted luminary R. P. Feynman gave a speech in which he showed rather well the dangers of that approach:

I’ll just have to get it right the first time

@Algher

Yeah, but we let OJ and the LAPD King guys walk - not sure if we can really claim superiority.

Hey we fixed that LAPD trial eventually! And we let Nevada take care of OJ

[BigT]

@Bricker

I appreciate your honesty, but consider what it reveals: you’re not neutrally seeking information, or open to information that may cause you to rethink your impressions, so much as you’re actively rooting for real events to confirm your suspicions.

No, it doesn’t. You hoped that the prosecution would have something on Zimmerman. They didn’t. Did that make you biased? Many jurors in the Zimmerman trial hoped for evidence that Zimmerman was guilty. Did that make them biased? Sure didn’t seem so by the result.

Hope alone does not make you biased. Only your refusal to look at contradictory evidence.

And if you think Fennyman contradicted that, you don’t know what you are reading. Which isn’t so hard, since you aren’t dealing with science, here.

[BigT]

And, yes, I typed Feynman wrong. But the point is that his situation doesn’t correlate at all with this situation. He didn’t say anything about people “hoping” that the electron had a certain size.

If anything, it was the other part of his post that might be relevant to that quote–if he thinks Zimmerman is a monster based on the initial measurement that happened before the trial.

BTW, I have no problem assuming Zimmerman did this, but I do think it seems awfully convenient, and the possible phone call and deletion of Facebook profiles that allegedly showed that the accident owners contributed to Zimmerman’s defense funds, combined with suddenly pulling out of an interview–those make it seem even more suspicious. I’d love to believe he was just trying to help people, but I can’t be sure based on this information.

And, no, I haven’t been looking for more information. If the cop has come out and said he never called him or given a more plausible reason he did, or if someone has explained the situation with the couple, that’s great. But, as it is, all I have is my optimism, just like all YogSooth has is his pessimism.

[carnivorousplant]

@BigT

the possible phone call and deletion of Facebook profiles that allegedly showed that the accident owners contributed to Zimmerman’s defense funds, combined with suddenly pulling out of an interview

I haven’t been paying attention. Could you briefly summarize that for me?

[Emtar_KronJonDerSohn]

I thought this was a ridiculous conspiracy theory but now I’m shocked just absolutely shocked that any of these things could have happened. It’s shocking just completely shocking that GZ might have a fire extinguisher in his car, and I’m completely shocked that he would be a mile from his home. It’s all so shocking to me. I’m so shocked I just don’t know what to do. I’ve never been so shocked in all my life. Do cars even flip over? That shocks me. It’s shocking to think that a car would just turn upside down. None of my cars ever have and I’d be completely shocked if my car just flipped over. Doesn’t that shock anyone else? I’m shocked we’re not collectively more shocked by this.

[Bricker]

@BigT

And, yes, I typed Feynman wrong. But the point is that his situation doesn’t correlate at all with this situation. He didn’t say anything about people “hoping” that the electron had a certain size.

If anything, it was the other part of his post that might be relevant to that quote–if he thinks Zimmerman is a monster based on the initial measurement that happened before the trial.

BTW, I have no problem assuming Zimmerman did this, but I do think it seems awfully convenient, and the possible phone call and deletion of Facebook profiles that allegedly showed that the accident owners contributed to Zimmerman’s defense funds, combined with suddenly pulling out of an interview–those make it seem even more suspicious. I’d love to believe he was just trying to help people, but I can’t be sure based on this information.

And, no, I haven’t been looking for more information. If the cop has come out and said he never called him or given a more plausible reason he did, or if someone has explained the situation with the couple, that’s great. But, as it is, all I have is my optimism, just like all YogSooth has is his pessimism.

Actually, the conspiracy theory page has not explained how they have access to the cop’s phone records in the first place, so we don’t even know there was such a call.

[aceplace57]

The severity of the wreck convinces me it wasn’t staged. No one would put their wife and kids in that kind of risk. The cops and the people in the wrecked car say Zimmerman was there. That’s good enough for me.

[carnivorousplant]

A couple of years ago I saw an overturned car in rural Arkansas. By the time I stopped and came over, three other guys came to help. All I did with a woman was push the car that was on its side rocking back and forth to keep it from turning over while a guy climbed up the car and pulled a fat girl out.
I suspect that is what happened here, several folks helping someone.