Take this, you sinner bashing bastards!

[Triskadecamus]

A group of travelers were in a bus, heading for a shrine, to pray. The driver of the bus was drunk. He drove off a cliff, and everyone on the bus died. As it happened, they were all still together, as they passed into the beyond, and they came to a long road, by a river, which they walked down, together.

After a time, they came to a gate, on the side of the road, which was made of pearl. On the gate was a sign. The sign said:

"No Faggots."

One of the travelers saw the sign, and began to weep. Another saw it, and smiled, he pushed on the gate, and it opened. He went in. The other travelers stood there, looking at the weeping man. One of them said:

"Look, down the road, there is another gate."

The travelers gathered their weeping companion in their arms, and went to the second gate. There too was a sign. It said:

"No Jews."

One of the travelers sighed deeply, and looked at his companions. Another looked about, and went through the gate. The others stood with their companions, and looked down the road. Sure enough, there was another gate.

It too had a sign:

"No Atheists."

And again, one of the travelers began weeping.

So it went for a very long time, for the road seemed to go on and on. There were many gates, and on each one, a sign.

"No drunks" "No adulterers" "No thieves" "No Catholics" "No Mormons"

But after a time, only a few travelers remained, with their disappointed brethren. As they consoled each other, they came upon yet another gate. There was a man sitting across the road from the gate, fishing. They looked upon the gate. None of them could read what the sign said.

"Sir," said one of the travelers, "do you know what the sign says?"

"Yes." He said.

"And can you tell us?" they asked.

"I can tell you only if you enter."

"Who may enter this gate?" asked the traveler who wept at the first gate.

"Anyone." The man replied.

So the travelers stepped up, and pushed upon the gate, and entered together, and the man followed them.

"Where does the gate lead?" they asked him, "for we have entered."

"Heaven." He said.

"But, the other gates all had on them signs saying who could not enter. Where did they lead?"

"Nowhere." He replied.

"What shall become of our brethren who chose the other gates?" asked one of the travelers.

The man said "The shall remain lost, until they choose to be found. It is their hearts that have led them astray. Why did you not enter the first gate?" he asked one of the travelers. "You were not forbidden entry."

The pilgrim answered, "One of my friends was weeping, for he was forbidden. I could not leave him."

"And at each gate, you chose to suffer with your brethren, although you were not named. And when you walked the long road, never once did you falter, when your brothers were sent away, but took up the burden of their broken hearts. The sign on this gate says: None, but the righteous. But only I can read it."

[sir viks]

Wasn't that an episode on The Twilight Zone?

[stpauler]

Umm, just out of curiousity, what was the atheist going to the shrine to pray for?

[Legomancer]

Originally posted by stpauler
Umm, just out of curiousity, what was the atheist going to the shrine to pray for?

He was going to perform a double-blind experiment to test the validity of the claims for the shrine's healing powers.

[Velma]

This is a great post, why is it in the pit? (other than the title). I had to laugh when I read the post and then looked at the title again. It's like, love everyone, you bastards!

(I understand the sentiment, it just struck me as funny).

[Fatwater Fewl]

Triskadecamus, that's a very fine parable of love.

[Amp]

I saw a TV episode like this. Some hick died with his dog. As they were walking down a country road they come across a s gate and a sign that says "No Dogs". The gate keeper tries to convince the hick to enter but he will not enter without his dog and keeps on moving. He then comes upon a second gate where the gate keeper allows him and his dog to enter and it turns out that the first gate was hell and the second gate is heaven.

[SkipMagic]

Originally posted by stpauler
Umm, just out of curiousity, what was the atheist going to the shrine to pray for?

Ten bucks says he was the bus driver.

[Kn*ckers]

Yeah, Amp, but this version was way more poetical. It helps that there are no dogs or hicks in this one.

I gotta tell ya, I was really expecting more rage when I opened this thread. I feel a little let down... and relieved at the same time.

[Legomancer]

Originally posted by Amp
I saw a TV episode like this. Some hick died with his dog. As they were walking down a country road they come across a s gate and a sign that says "No Dogs". The gate keeper tries to convince the hick to enter but he will not enter without his dog and keeps on moving. He then comes upon a second gate where the gate keeper allows him and his dog to enter and it turns out that the first gate was hell and the second gate is heaven.

I believe that is a Twilight Zone episode called "The Long Hunt".

[Neurotik]

That was a good one. One of my favorites, I must say. Everyone I know always say "The Living Doll" was the best, but I like the dog one.

[Triskadecamus]

StPauler, Regarding the Atheist: He was accompanying his brother, who was unable to travel alone on the trip.

Skip, no, the bus driver was the drunk, remember?

Amp and Kn*ckers I am much embarrassed to admit, the first three rough drafts were a lot meaner. Yeah, love everyone, you bastards! That's about it. But telling a bunch of folks that their religious views are a trap, and will get their souls lost is pretty much still pit territory, I think. But on this general subject, calling people goat felchers and the like felt, . . . unseemly.

And on the matter of the "The Hunt" I was very much influenced by it. But I have not had that much experience with the theological condemnation of dog ownership. YMMV.

Tris

[SkipMagic]

Originally posted by Triskadecamus
Skip, no, the bus driver was the drunk, remember?

Yeah, you're right. I keep forgetting that atheists can't touch alcohol and all because, as you know, we don't believe in spirits.

[Liberal]

Breathtaking. Thanks, Tris.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The unreadable sign was a nice touch.

[NurseCarmen]

Didn't the episode on the Twilight Zone have a Tennessee cop blow the dog's head off?

[iampunha]

You know, Baker (or someone who's in whatever area He Who Shall Not be Named happens to be in) might like to distribute copies of this parable at the next protest...

[SkipMagic]

You know, Baker (or someone who's in whatever area He Who Shall Not be Named happens to be in) might like to distribute copies of this parable at the next protest...

You know, auntie em and I were out driving last weekend (probably hunting for food, but possibly just wasting gas and killing the environment) and we ran across (not "over", so stop it) some of Phelp's cutting crew.

There were... what, maybe three of 'em? Or four? I couldn't tell what the hell (heh) they were protesting (maybe the church across the street from them), but none of them seemed interested in actually doing anything other than leaning on their signs. And, of course, the other Topekans just ignored them. Rant enough, I suppose, and you become just another one of life's daily annoyances.

Anyhoo, at that point I just kind of figured no one pays much attention to them until either the media needs filler or they (Fred & Co.) does something outrageously heinous.

At any rate, if what I saw is any indication of what that group's future holds, then I think they'll eventually fade away. Miracles, eh?

[Charogne]

There are a lot of good, kind, smart posters on the board who try to make the world a little bit better for all of us. But Tris, you seem to have a special knack for making my eyes water. Love ya back.

[jjimm]

Did they let the drunk driver in, too?

[Homebrew]

Yes.

[vanilla]

But how?
Does it not say in the Bible that drunks (paraphrased) will not enter? Not to mention liars etc?

I'm not claiming anything here, just asking.

[jjimm]

Originally posted by vanilla
But how?
Does it not say in the Bible that drunks (paraphrased) will not enter? Not to mention liars etc?

Note that Tris didn't mention Christianity in the OP, just Heaven.

[vanilla]

hmmmmm

[jjimm]

Just my take on it.

[Triskadecamus]

I am a Christian.

I do not believe that the parable is inconsistent with the nature of Christian Salvation as I have come to believe in it. Those not wishing to enter through this door, may find a door that denies those they feel uncomfortable joining in Heaven.

But I wonder. If the Lord welcomes those you wish for Him to despise, will you then refuse to join Him?

Tris

[Derleth]

Tris: I'm an atheist in the sense of the word that I regard any supernatural entities or existence beyond the physical to be unproven and, therefore, regard religious beliefs to be a waste of my time.

But I'm also a big fan of philosophical hypotheticals, and I've given the issue some thought after I read your great parable. I've come to the conclusion that I would be tempted to enter a gate that was expressly forbidden me, simply to spite any deity that would refuse my presence. I would also realize that spite is no way to spend an eternity, so I would give that door an absolutely nasty look and walk down until I found a door that had no restrictions on it whatsoever. I cannot accept an exclusive afterlife.

When I was younger, I was a Protestant (Church of Christ in specific, but in reality a fairly non-denominational middle-of-the-road Protestantism with no specific emphasis beyond being a good person). I tried to reconcile my own philosophies, as I held them at the time, with what I was learning in Sunday school and from religious people around me. I came to the conclusion that at death, the soul separates into two distinct entities: Good and Bad. The Good is destined for Heaven, the Bad is destined for Hell (or perhaps nonexistence). Good people might only have a tiny little speck of Bad to lose, and bad people might only have a tiny little speck of Good to be saved, but everybody would split. Heaven would be a paradise for everyone because nobody would be burdened by an unworthy element.

The implication of my former belief is that in everyone, there is a part that is worth saving, whether or not it actually is saved, and a part that is not worth saving. I still think that, but without the religious aspects.

[Count Trari de Reeson]

So your idea of Heaven is place for adulterers, thieves, drunks, and other sinners, as long as they accept that behavior in others?
Interesting idea.

[Liberal]

They did not suffer for behavior; they suffered for people.

[Triskadecamus]

Count Trari de Reeson said:[quote] So your idea of Heaven is place for adulterers, thieves, drunks, and other sinners, as long as they accept that behavior in others?[/b] [b]Don't forget the atheists, faggots, and Mormans! Wouldn't want to forget them. It just wouldn't be Heaven without those guys.

Oh, yeah, and the Harlots, and tax collectors, and publicans, too!

Tris
--------------------
"The Way of Heaven is to benefit others and not to injure." ~ Lao-tzu ~

[heresiarch]

Originally posted by Count Trari de Reeson
So your idea of Heaven is place for adulterers, thieves, drunks, and other sinners, as long as they accept that behavior in others?
Interesting idea.

They didn't get to Heaven because they accepted each other's behavior - they got there because they chose to support each other in love instead of letting condemnation split them apart.

Nice story, Triskadecamus.

[JerseyDiamond]

Originally posted by Count Trari de Reeson
So your idea of Heaven is place for adulterers, thieves, drunks, and other sinners, as long as they accept that behavior in others?
Interesting idea.

Sounds more like Hell to me. Unless these people repent, they cannot be in Gods presents.

Then again, if you don't believe the Bible and you make up your own rules, anything goes........

[JerseyDiamond]

replace presents with presence..........sorry

[grendel72]

Well if that's hell, Jersey, we know where all the best people are going to wind up. Personally, an eternity with judgemental prigs on all sides of me sounds more like hell.

[samarm]

Sounds more like Hell to me. Unless these people repent, they cannot be in Gods presents.

You mean "presence"? That's your opinion. Who are you to judge?

Then again, if you don't believe the Bible and you make up your own rules, anything goes.......

And what is the Bible if not a bunch of made up rules?

[Mockingbird]

Originally posted by JerseyDiamond
Sounds more like Hell to me. Unless these people repent, they cannot be in Gods presents.

Then again, if you don't believe the Bible and you make up your own rules, anything goes........

Well, being in a room with you and your "perfect" brethren would be nothing short of hellish to me.

Now, could you take your sanctimonious Stepford ass to service your moronic husband.

[Klaatu]

Originally posted by JerseyDiamond
Sounds more like Hell to me. Unless these people repent, they cannot be in Gods presents.

Then again, if you don't believe the Bible and you make up your own rules, anything goes........

That of course would be in your own humble opinion I assume.
Many people in this world get along fine without having to define their lives according to whatever "Bible" you speak of.

[Glory]

As an atheist, I've thought about God quite a bit. I thought, well, what if I had proof, real proof that God exists, would I believe?

Yes.

And then I thought, what if I had proof, real proof that God is as JerseyDiamond suggests, would I worship him?

No.

[Guinastasia]

Sounds more like Hell to me. Unless these people repent, they cannot be in Gods presents.

Well, considering these were the kinds of people Jesus hung around with in his day, I guess you don't believe he is God then, either?

[Enderw24]

What about blacks or women? The story said nothing about them. Surely those types of people wouldn't be allowed into Heaven, would they?

[Polycarp]

Sounds more like Hell to me. Unless these people repent, they cannot be in Gods presents.

Then again, if you don't believe the Bible and you make up your own rules, anything goes........

Huh. Is Jesus God? What did He do when He encountered a sinner?

And on the other thing -- some of us do believe the Bible and its message of grace to those who don't deserve it, free for the asking, not the made-up rules some people have about whom God does or does not love. (Naming no names nor accusing anyone here... just an observation )

[Derleth]

If I had real proof a deity exists, would I need to believe?

No. That's what `proof' means.

If I had proof that a deity that does not meet my own standards exists, would I worship?

No.

Would I worship any deity that I had proof for the existence of?

No. I would attempt to gain an understanding of it, possibly form a friendship with it if possible, but I would no more `worship' it than I worship the Coal Sack Nebula or the beautiful complexity of pure mathematics. I think comprehension is a higher goal than devotion.

[Triskadecamus]

So, [b]Velma]/b] are you picking up on why this thread is in the pit?

Tris

[JerseyDiamond]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
Well, considering these were the kinds of people Jesus hung around with in his day, I guess you don't believe he is God then, either?

I think you are forgetting or ignoring the part about Jesus going to these people because they needed to be saved. He went to teach them the way. Not to tell them that everyone is ok, keep doing what you are doing, but to go forth and sin no more. Remember that, Guin?

[Klaatu]

But Poly, why should one have to ask?

I have had little, if any interaction with you on this board, and have nothing but respect for you. But as an atheist, I would wonder why a deity would require asking forgiveness to be accepted into the fold.

I understand the bit about original sin, and so forth, but having to ask for forgiveness for something I have never done seems a bit arrogant of the deity I am supposedly trying to worship.

And apologies for the following, but it seems to me that to get in the good graces of the "Christian" God, I must basically bend over and kiss ass or I am not worthy.

I guess I will never understand the "Either worship ME or you are doomed to a life in Hell." Whats the point? I just don't get that.

I don't like the demanding tone that is apparent in "The Word"

[Guinastasia]

What I REMEMBER is him saying, "Yes, you are a sinner, but I will always forgive you."

And it is for GOD in heaven to judge, not YOU, Jersey.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally posted by grendel72
Well if that's hell, Jersey, we know where all the best people are going to wind up. Personally, an eternity with judgemental prigs on all sides of me sounds more like hell.

All the best people are drunks, thieves, and adulterers? Odd, your way of looking at things.

Guinastasia and Polycarp: Since you're talking about the same thing, I'll try to address you both together.

You know as well as I do that forgiveness isn't just thrown at you. You only get it if you want it - and sincerely. A contrite heart gets forgiveness. Poly asked "what did Jesus do when he encountered a sinner?" And we all know the answer is twofold: 1) he said (sometimes), "your sins are forgiven," and 2) he said "Go and sin no more." The two parts are integral to each other.

And guinastasia, when are you going to learn the difference between preaching the gospel and passing judgment? What jerseydiamond said is WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. If you don't like it, then your problem is with God, not with her. And while saying "You can't judge! You're not God!" might seem cute and win you some popularity points on SD, it's not addressing the truth. If you don't like what the bible says, then at least be honest and say you reject the bible. You can't say you're a catholic who believes the bible to be the word of God, but at the same time fight and argue against what it plainly says.

[Glory]

So God picked up his holy Bic and wrote the Bible out longhand? It's not possible that the words in the text might be filtered through the personalities and mindset of the time it was written? Written by mortal and fallible individuals, to boot. Not to mention the many translations?

The Bible != God

[Joe_Cool]

Originally posted by Hastur
Well, being in a room with you and your "perfect" brethren would be nothing short of hellish to me.

Now, could you take your sanctimonious Stepford ass to service your moronic husband.

Personal insults are always an excellent way to claim the moral high ground.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally posted by Glory
So God picked up his holy Bic and wrote the Bible out longhand? It's not possible that the words in the text might be filtered through the personalities and mindset of the time it was written? Written by mortal and fallible individuals, to boot. Not to mention the many translations?

The Bible != God

And the Constitution != the founders of the U.S. What's your point? It's still their words and the law of the land.

I don't suppose you'd mind showing me where anybody ever said the Bible == God?