My Recent Personal Problems: Insomnia And Sex.

[Chicago Faucet]

I'm in the beginning stages of a bout of insomnia. I get these bouts about once every two years. They tend to last about three weeks to a month. It's really not that bad. I mean, it isn't something that is terrible. It's not as terrible as everyone makes it out to be. If I could try to describe it in as few words as possible, it feels as if I am insulated from the environment around me. I'm witnessing it, but not participating. There is a fine layer of gel covering my whole body in a cocoon. It insultes me, it slows me down, but it is comforting at the same time. Things don't bother me as much, and my tolerance to heat and cold is expanded. My thought process is slower, but at a more regular tempo. I appear more calm, if not subdued, to others - like someone who just had a seizure. It slips me into a slight depression, but my thoughts are more clear.

I don't know what causes these occasional bouts of insomnia. I'm no more stressed than at any other time. No illnesses. It just arrives like an unexpected guest.

But the biggest thing about insomnia is that it fools with your sense of time, and the rate at which it passes. Suddenly, it doesn't matter that it is 2 am, and dark out. You need scotch tape right now, and there are no stores open. I'll look up at the clock, and then again five minutes later, only to see that two hours have passed, or vice versa. Sometimes it feels like time has stopped and reversed. There is no beginning and end to a day. The morning is simply an extension of the previous night. The morning is the same as the night, just a couple hours later.

My other current, and long term personal problem, is lack of sex. Despite the shield of insomnia above, the sex problem still comes through loud and clear. I am married. I have been married for three years now. I can pinpoint the exact moment when my wife decided that she didn't like sex anymore, and I recognized this as a problem. It was on the second day of our honeymoon. Yes. I know. Despressing.

The conversations and arguments about this subject are so well worn between us that they have become condensed down to an angry look on my face, her saying, "What's wrong?" Then me saying, "Problem."

We are at a stalemate. She doesn't like sex, just like she doesn't like Tapioca pudding. No amount of Tapioca will make her ever like it. I'm averaging it less than once a month. Sex, not Tapioca. I nag her. She looks annoyed. She gives in. If it is against her will, then it feels like I am raping her, and she cries. But it is not worth it to wait up to three months for 5 minutes of spoiling something that should be much better. The longing and desperation on my part, during the times inbetween, seems pointless - to long for something that will only disappoint me.

But I have never been lucky in the realm of sex. I'm going to be straight with you all. I'm average, if not better than average, in physical attractiveness. I have a healthy and realistic image of my body. I'm also funny and witty. But my unluckiness in love has been my own fault, but not for lack of trying.

Early on, I broke up with my girlfriend in high school to join the Marine Corps. That was basically four years of celebacy. I then met my wife coming right out of the Corps. So it has been just one long term round of celebacy after another since high school. And, it's my own damn fault.

Thanks for listening.

[Anaamika]

I hate to trot out the obvious, but have you tried counseling? She could have some trauma in her life, you know. If she doesn't go, you should go alone.

That having been said, she may not be the woman for you, my friend. If she can't at least try to accomodate you and try to learn...well are you going to spend the rest of your life married to someone that won't consider your needs? Consider what happens if you do have sex - and she gets pregnant then you guys break up? Now there's an innocent life involved.

[OneYogini]

Okay, so I have a little trouble sleeping now and then, and don't sleep well at all if not sleeping in my own bed...but I can relate more to your sex problems (unfortnately!).

I've shared this around here before. My on and off again BF of six years has been somewhat on again for about a year now (we don't live together and he travels alot for work). During the past two years however, we have rarely had sex because he has developed erectile dysfunction. He is 10 years older than me and drinks and smokes heavily. We are not, I feel, very close anymore these past couple of years because of the serious lack of intimacy. I suggested in the beginning we just try orally pleasing each other and such, to ease his concerns over not being able to "get it up", but he lacks libido as well. It's really sad and I feel bad for him, I truly do, but it's killing me as well. I'm a very sexual person (and he knew this from the beginning) and having to temper my wanting to be intimate and touchy-feely with him is very difficult.

I can sympathize with your lack of sex and it is not a pleasant situation to love someone and want to "be" with them and have them not want to or be able to "be" with you as well. Fortunately, I'm not married so if it came to ending the relationship, though difficult after six years of being with someone, it would be (in my opinion) different/easier than going through a divorce (which I've done as well). Though I'm not saying lack of sex alone is justification for divorce -- though some would say it is.

I wish you the best. You're not alone!

Yogini

P.S. Do you find yourself attracting people that you KNOW would have sex with you? I have, over the past couple of years, been propositioned by several (not bragging) that suggest I need to be in a more sexually satisfying relationship (and they're willing to "help out" - lol!). It doesn't make things easier, I'll say that!

[Bruce_Daddy]

Insomnia

I have similar bouts of insomnia, but I'm weird, I kind of like it. It's like being in a club or something. I go to Waffle House and drink coffee (something I never otherwise do) smoke cigarettes and do the crossword. Or shuffle around Wal-Mart at 3am. Or play PS2. But, like I said, I'm a freak.

Sex

I'd bail on that so fast. . .

[Chicago Faucet]

Originally Posted by OneYogini

P.S. Do you find yourself attracting people that you KNOW would have sex with you? I have, over the past couple of years, been propositioned by several (not bragging) that suggest I need to be in a more sexually satisfying relationship (and they're willing to "help out" - lol!). It doesn't make things easier, I'll say that!

"How YOU doin'?"

Yes. Definitely. That is one of the harder parts about this situation. I find myself fantasizing about previous girlfriends, probably looking for something that they gave me, that my wife currently lacks. It also hurts because this problem came out of no where, and happened two days after we were married. So, I feel like I was hoodwinked in a big way. Now, it's going to cost me dearly to get out of it.

Present company excluded, reading these boards about this same type of situation tells me that a majority of women do not enjoy sex. The best that a man can hope for is a woman who can tolerate it enough to accomodate him.

Bruce Daddy, you are right. Insomnia is not necessarily a bad thing. It's like an alternate reality. Time is no longer a process. It is more like an object on my desk that I can play with. I am no longer constrained with my 11 PM bedtime. I can get so much done, and still survive on three hours of sleep. Now, if you don't have insomnia, don't start depriving yourself of sleep to try to attain this. During these periods of insomnia, my body doesn't seem to need sleep, therefore I don't crave it.

[UrbanChic]

Chicago Faucet, I know where you are and it sucks. Big time.

Fortunately for me, my problem resolved itself. It's very hard being in a monogamous relationship with someone who doesn't like sex as often as you do. I can't even imagine being in your situation.

You have my deepest sympathies and respect. Honestly, I couldn't stay in such a marriage.

[bittersweet]

I love sex.

Right now I am in a relationship that has somehow been going for almost 2 years. In that time, my b/f and I have rarely had sex, because he would rather take care of business himself than come to me. He can usually rattle off a few good excuses at a time as to why this is the case, most of which place blame on me. I've suggested counseling, but he doesn't feel he has a problem, to which I say . Needless to say, unless some serious changes are made or miracles are worked, we likely won't be a couple much longer.

[OneYogini]

Originally Posted by Chicago Faucet

"How YOU doin'?"

That made me lol!

Originally Posted by Chicago Faucet

Yes. Definitely. That is one of the harder parts about this situation. I find myself fantasizing about previous girlfriends, probably looking for something that they gave me, that my wife currently lacks. It also hurts because this problem came out of no where, and happened two days after we were married. So, I feel like I was hoodwinked in a big way. Now, it's going to cost me dearly to get out of it.

Because you were, it seems, "hoodwinked, I'm sure it does make it all that much more hurtful. Sorry.

I don't fantasize so much about EXs, so much as I get them telling me that I should get out of my situation or that they will "help me through" (if you know what I mean). THAT is hard. But I do find myself fantasizing a lot more, in general...entertaining ideas I shouldn't, and so forth. I know - - I'm a sinner!! (I have the t-shirt! lol!)

Originally Posted by Chicago Faucet

Present company excluded, reading these boards about this same type of situation tells me that a majority of women do not enjoy sex. The best that a man can hope for is a woman who can tolerate it enough to accomodate him.

It's funny you say that (I know I'm excluded in your comment by the way! lol!)...because if asked, I would say that most of the women dopers here would say the opposite. I thought there were a lot of nympho dopers like myself, personally. Oh well - - we'll see, your thread is still new...

Yogini

[MoodIndigo1]

Originally Posted by Elenia25

I hate to trot out the obvious, but have you tried counseling? (...)
That having been said, she may not be the woman for you, my friend. If she can't at least try to accomodate you and try to learn...well are you going to spend the rest of your life married to someone that won't consider your needs? Consider what happens if you do have sex - and she gets pregnant then you guys break up? Now there's an innocent life involved.

I agree with Elenia. Counseling is definitely in order here. When she married you, she must have thought that your life would involve sex? Did anything traumatic happen on that 2nd day of your honeymoon? Did you have satisfying sex before you were married?

By the way, women do enjoy sex. All the women I know do. I do, very much. I cannot imagine going more than a week without sex. Surely that alone would keep me awake at night.

[MoodIndigo1]

Originally Posted by OneYogini

I thought there were a lot of nympho dopers like myself, personally.

Just a note. I'm not one of the "lot of nympho dopers"-- too old for that. I guess I'm just a dirty old woman.

[John Carter of Mars]

By Chicago Faucet:<snip> " a majority of women do not enjoy sex. The best that a man can hope for is a woman who can tolerate it enough to accomodate him."

My experience says otherwise. I think you are telling yourself this as a form of consolation for your current unhappy situation.

"Now, it's going to cost me dearly to get out of it."
I'm truly sorry that you are stuck in a bad deal, but you can get out of it. How much money is a happy life worth? Pay whatever the cost and get yourself free.

If you are single, and look around, there are plenty of happy, healthy women out there that appreciate a good physical relationship.

I'd say do the deed and split up now, while you still have long years ahead to enjoy a woman who appreciates what you appreciate.

Good luck to you.

[Syntropy]

Chicago Faucet, most if not ALL of the women I know have very healthy sexual appetites. Me included. With my ex, it was a case of me bugging him incessantly. We had sex once every five or six weeks. It was infrequent, but at least it was over way too quick. Difficult to get worked up about something that lasted just under 5 minutes.
If counselling isn't a workable option, at least talk with your wife. See if you can draw her out, get her to explain to you exactly what it is about sex that makes her so unwilling. Maybe it isn't you specifically, but if it is, then at least you have an opportunity to correct the problem.

about the insomnia: I get it every few months like clockwork. Lasts a little over a week, goes away. I do enjoy it....there's a surreal quality that I find difficult to explain to anyone who hasn't experienced insomnia.

[Lord Ashtar]

Originally Posted by OneYogini

I thought there were a lot of nympho dopers like myself, personally.

I'm going to need a list of said nympho dopers. My email is ini my profile.

[Chicago Faucet]

"I'm going to need a list of said nympho dopers. My email is ini my profile."

Same here.

Seriously. I was probably flying off the handle when I made the generalization about women not liking sex. I know the stats from the books that I've read on the subject. They say that this is pretty much equal between the genders. I'm probably noticing it only because I am sensitive to it. And, John Carter, you are probably very much correct that I am manufacturing a defense mechanism against my own unhappiness.

We have gone to counseling. We started going six months into the marriage. We went for a couple months, until I figured out what the counselor was trying to say to me. On our last visit the counselor said to me, "Well, if you didn't need it so much, this wouldn't be a problem." Yeah. That was our last visit.

Since then, nothing has changed.

[Another Generalization] Sheesh, why do women change as soon as they get married? [/Another Generalization]

[Syntropy]

DUDE!!!! The counsellor actually came out and said that? That's unbelievable.
I wish I knew what to say. Unfortunately, if your wife isn't willing to even try, or at least tell you the reason for her feelings, you're stuck in a no win situation. Which sucks. No pun intended. I hesitate to add this, because I think ultimatums usually just add to the problem, but have you told her that your lack of a sexual relationship is putting such a strain on the rest of your life together that you are considering leaving?

[velvetjones]

Chicago Faucet I've heard that ramdom statistic that 80$ of counselors are inneffectual, 10% are actually helpful and the other 10% are harmful.

If you really want to be with this woman you should try another or several different counselors until you find one who "fits".

Physical intimacy between a man and a woman is a natural and important part of the relationship and seems to go hand in hand with emotional intimacy. If she's not willing or doesn't like to have sex with you it could also be an indication of a deeper emotional problem. Or maybe your libidos are just hopelessly mismatched. If it's just a libido thing then there are ways to come to a loving compromise of the situation but I don't hear anything in what you say that sounds like you're happy or you love her. (of course I might be reading too much into that)

When I was young (in my 20s) I had all sorts of hang ups about sex, mostly because of my relationship with my father and other things. It took me lots of therapy and self-help stuff to be comfortable with my body and comfortable with the fact that I have a very strong libido.

I hope things get better for you. You deserve to be happy.

[Jaade]

I have to agree with Mama Mo (Maureen). Most of the women that I know DO enjoy sex. Are you guys young? I do remember than when I was younger, it was not quite as enjoyable for me. (Young being between 19-23). It didn't help that my (ex) husband would make me feel uncomfortable about the whole thing, and made fun of me about not wanting sex as much as he did in front of our friends.

If the problem doesn't lie with something that happened when you guys were on your honeymoon, maybe something bad happened before that.

~J

[Indygrrl]

I hate to say this to the women complaining that their man won't have sex, but if he's not getting it from you it's pretty likely that he's getting it somewhere else. I had this same situation where I was with a guy for a year and he had no interest. He claimed "erectile dysfunction," but I never quite believed him. Long after we broke up I found out he had been seeing someone the entire time.

After a few months of no sex, I'd break it off or go find someone to have an affair with. But then, I am mean and wrong.

[OneYogini]

Originally Posted by Indygrrl

I hate to say this to the women complaining that their man won't have sex, but if he's not getting it from you it's pretty likely that he's getting it somewhere else. I had this same situation where I was with a guy for a year and he had no interest. He claimed "erectile dysfunction," but I never quite believed him. Long after we broke up I found out he had been seeing someone the entire time.

After a few months of no sex, I'd break it off or go find someone to have an affair with. But then, I am mean and wrong.

Indy, just curious, but why would your man stay in a relationship with you, not have sex, but have someone on the side he was having sex with? Wouldn't it be easier just to break it off with you and be with the other person? That's odd to me. You don't have to answer that if it's too personal - - I just find it odd, that's all (there's probably a good explanation or reasons, I just can't imagine).

I kinda wish there was someone else, it would make it easier to have an excellent reason for breaking up. But in our case, I know he's not cheating - - not because I'm in denial of the possibility...I just know he's not. If you knew him and me, our situation, our lives, you'd know too (not that I need to convince you or anyone else). (To explain a bit: when people discuss cheating I get a bit defensive because my current relationship is very different from those I've had in the past - - and probably because I've both cheated and been cheated on. But I also believe that not everybody cheats. Some people think that's naive, but I disagree...I know people that are devoutly monogomous-for many reasons.)

NOTE TO SELF: Consider being mean and wrong. (JUST KIDDING - - sort of.)

Yogini

[Ferret Herder]

I'm a woman, and I went from having a pretty decent sex drive (at least every other day we'd have sex, often more frequently) to a really low one. Having sex seemed like too much of a hassle or something; I'd agree to it if my husband wanted to, but it ended up only being once a week or so. Then I figured out I was depressed, and went on Wellbutrin. Suddenly my sex drive is way up to what it used to be, and my husband occasionally wants a break.

Perhaps the OP's wife is depressed, or perhaps had some kind of trauma (rape, remembering repressed childhood sexual abuse) around the time of the wedding. Unfortunately, it can be hard for someone who's feeling like that to seek help; you don't want to "deal with" churning up all those bad feelings, and deny something is wrong, or resist efforts to help. I've described it as being like "hitting bottom" as an alcoholic - when the person reaches out for help on his or her own, then it's more likely that real progress will be made.

[cichlidiot]

To address your comment about counseling, for me it was bad enough, just making the decision to pay someone to listen to my problems. When the first counselor I saw turned out to be interested in finger pointing, rather than solutions, it was difficult for me to continue seeking a counselor who could help. I was in a relationship with someone who was physically abusive, and while it's not the same situation as yours, I'm guessing there's probably some shame and trepidation involved in making the decision to see a counselor in the first place. On an intellectual level, I knew it was a wise decision, but the emotional level was slow to come around.

When I finally did decide to see a counselor, my SO (at the time) and I decided to go with a male counselor. I was concerned about bias over the physical abuse, and hoped a man would be more impartial toward the SO. Turns out, I was supposed to straighten up and stay in my place, and I came out of the first session feeling like the physical abuse really wasn't all that big of a deal, it can happen to anyone if they lose their temper, etc. Whee! FWIW, the next counselor wasn't like that, it may be worth another shot.

[Syntropy]

Yep. What Yogini said. Strange but true, Indygrrl, there really are guys out there who don't want it all the live long day. My ex wasn't messing around, just has a low sex drive. And, was that way from the beginning of our relationship. Doesn't mean there was no sexual attraction...there was plenty. We'd hug, kiss, fondle, play...and then at the end of the day, there was just no energy. Sucks to get older, is all I can tell you.....

[tanookie]

A good Counselor can make a huge difference. I had no faith in counselors from some bad experiences growing up and then I went to work in a clinic. The people there were amazing and I learned there are some counselors who do know what they are doing and honestly help people. Think of them like you would your doctor - if your doctor told you that a broken leg was no big deal and it would heal eventually and you deserved it anyway because you were playing hockey - well you would get a new doctor!

I had some very bad sexual experiences and it took a lot to work through. The important thing was that I wanted to work through them. You can't make someone want to help themselves but unless they do they will never change.

I wish you luck. A sexless marriage is not a good place to be. The resentment will eat you alive.

[Lady of the Lake]

Married female here.

I have a much higher sex drive than my husband. I would like it *at least* every three days, he is happy with it once a month. This was a big issue for our first two years... I had someone who was so wonderful to me: sweet, sincere, caring, loving...but at the same time I felt rejected.

It has gotten better, I felt at peace with it after the marriage, and I am perfectly capable of taking care of myself, after all.

As a surprise, my husband recently initiated change in our sex lives, which has increased the frequency, so there are no feelings of rejection now.

As for your story. I really don't like that her lack of sex drive became an issue right after the marriage. Perhaps she was not aware? That is my hope. If she was aware, she knowingly decieved you, and that is not a positive way to start a marriage.

[jastu]

There could be a number of reasons why your wife is not interested in sex. Has she had her hormone levels checked? Is she still in love with you? Is she taking any medication? Maybe she has some so far undiscovered medical condition which may be causing lack of libido. Do you engage in other intimate activities? Do you spend time taking and listening to her (not about this subject) and having fun together? Do you even like each other?

I know it must be frustrating for you but you really should explore the reason why she is feeling this way. Just arguing about it or bugging her will not solve anything.

[Ghanima]

I don't want to offend anyone here, but it is possible that your wife is unsatisfied with your performance, and therefore isn't interested anymore. I had a similar experience with my last SO. When we met, it was all hot and bothered. The thrill of the chase or something. Then, magically, about six months into the relationship, I just got bored. Really, really bored. I realized that he never really did anything foreplay-wise, like he would just kiss me and grab my boobs and I was supposed to be ready to go. So I shut him down for a long time. Later, sfter talking to him about it, he got better and our sex life did eventually improve. Although I have to say that now that I've a had few partners since him, I can honestly say that my sex drive during that relationship was a lifetime low for me.

Don't want to offend, but it could be a factor.

[OneYogini]

OMG. I'm really embarassed to say this, but I have to share my DOH! "light bulb" moment with you. I was thinking about this thread and recent replies while taking a break and making dinner...and it hit me that my BF has been moderately depressed these last couple of years about his work. I didn't think much of it because, again if you knew him you'd just think "this is how he is" but I realize there must be something to this now that I see people having libido issues related to their depression. (I did not have libido issues when I was on anti-depressants for one year...it was a chemical imbalance that later was traced to a hypothyroid problem.) Anyway - - holy cow!! I need to talk to our doctor (and BF of course) and see if maybe anti-depressants could help. (He's tried Viagra, but it doesn't work - really. It's his libido and I told him to tell our doctor not to throw meds at the function part of the problem. Now I think this might be an avenue to explore. Geez, I feel a bit foolish for not seeing this! But, THANK YOU DOPERS!!

Sorry to highjack - - I do hope everything works out for you Chicago. As you can see, and as I said before, you're not alone!!

Yogini

[Green Cymbeline]

Originally Posted by Chicago Faucet

My other current, and long term personal problem, is lack of sex...We are at a stalemate. She doesn't like sex, just like she doesn't like Tapioca pudding...

I am so sorry for what you are going through, Chicago Faucet. No one should have to live like that. Sex is an important and healthy part of life, and it is a shame you are being denied it. Your wife obviously has a problem, and she needs to see her doctor.

The disinterest in sex is a really hard thing to understand. I recently dealt with this first-hand. Usually it's the female half of the couple that is disinterested in sex; well in my case it was the male half. This has never ever happened to me before! It came as quite the shock. My whole life it seems I have had to fight my boyfriends off...now it seems I would have to beg to have it, which is not worth it. I mean, I am by no means a sex fiend...but for my boyfriend, at the young age of 30, he could care less about it. It's really depressing. I really don't know what is wrong with him, and he doesn't either, but it's clear there is something wrong.

Here's an analogy: hunger is a natural feeling/drive. Now, if someone lost their appetite and never wanted to eat, that would be a serious problem. It's the same thing with sex. It is not normal to have no appetite, and not normal to have no sex drive (well unless you're on a medication that causes you to lose it).

Sex isn't just fun and healthy physically, but also very important emotionally. You should not have to live without it. It is very damaging to a relationship. As for me, I am not married, and I keep thinking...I am 28, and as I get older, I have become more interested in sex, and I have decided I am way too young to have to settle for a sex-less relationship (however, a person of any age, whether it be 28 or 88 should have to live without).

Please encourage your wife to see a doctor about this. Perhaps she was abused as a child?

[Syntropy]

This just ocurred to me, and, Chicago Faucet, please excuse me if I'm asking far to personal a question but.....



How was your physical relationship before you got married? Rare as it is, I finally remembered that not everyone has sex before they get married.

[Green Cymbeline]

Originally Posted by Chicago Faucet

So, I feel like I was hoodwinked in a big way.

Well I kind of know how you feel. When my BF and I started dating, for like the first month, the sex was great. But then all of a sudden, it was like *poof*, it was gone. Then I was told, "I don't really ever think about sex. I'm just not really interested." I was like, what?!?! OhhhKaaay...

And for the first time in my life, I actually had to go without sex involuntarily! I quickly discovered how long I could go without, and it wasn't but a few weeks before I started feeling physical signs...like a physical need for it, and it was very strange for me, because I have never had to go through that before...because all my previous boyfriends had very healthy sex drives.

And it's very hard not to let it hurt your feelings. There's nothing like a boyfriend disinterested in sex to make you feel like crap...sigh.

[dublos]

Originally Posted by Chicago Faucet

I am married. I have been married for three years now. I can pinpoint the exact moment when my wife decided that she didn't like sex anymore, and I recognized this as a problem. It was on the second day of our honeymoon. Yes. I know. Despressing.

I'm going to side with most every side I've seen posted here.

1) Counselling is vital.. And finding a counsellor you *both* connect with is the most important part of this.

2) Other than issues about sex, how is the rest of your relationship with your wife? Can you two talk about other difficult things?

3) Aside from sex, how's the intimacy? Kissing, cuddling, love notes, whatever?

4) When you do have sex now, does your wife orgasm?

5) Do you have any idea if your wife masturbates during the time you two aren't having sex?

6) Do you masturbate during the time you two aren't having sex?

If you're not the only one thinking about divorce there's no reason it has to be particularly painful or expensive for either of you.. you can come to an equitable parting that's fair to both of you.

[Chicago Faucet]

Well, it's midnight on a work night, and guess what I'm not doing?

NO, that's not it! Get your head out of the gutter.

I'm not SLEEPING. I'm having insomnia, remember?

Anyway, my thoughts have been racing. Here's what you get when you put my brain in a blender, and then pour the contents onto a monitor screen:

1. She did fake orgasms until a year into our marriage.
2. She has a history of depression. She is currently on birth control pills, Wellbutrin, and Effexor. Each one was added at different times, and they mostly keep her stable.
3. She is 100% Italian. So, she is a hotheaded, quick tempered Guiney.
4. She is the youngest of two sisters. I have sensed a certain streak of being spoiled and immature in both of them.
5. She is nine months older than I am, and we are both in our late 20s.
6. She doesn't like forplay. When she gives in to me, the act needs to be started and completed as soon as possible.
7. I masturbate all the time.
8. My porn collection is quite extensive. Lord Ashtar, you want to come over and see it?
9. I'm not sure how my performance is now. It used to be great. Now, well, I'm sorely out of practice.
10. I almost forgot. In one fit of frustration, I asked if she had ever been sexually abused or molested. She got very offended and yelled, "NO!" I have to believe her. I probably would have been offended as well.
11. Our sex life before getting married was at least regular. Although, right before the wedding we lived at our respective parents' houses. At that time she did mention something about, "Saving ourselves for our wedding night." "Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, woman?"
12. She hates her job, but so far is refusing to put herself out to find a different one.

[Indygrrl]

Originally Posted by OneYogini

Indy, just curious, but why would your man stay in a relationship with you, not have sex, but have someone on the side he was having sex with? Wouldn't it be easier just to break it off with you and be with the other person? That's odd to me. You don't have to answer that if it's too personal - - I just find it odd, that's all (there's probably a good explanation or reasons, I just can't imagine).

Well, because he was an asshole. That's just the beginning. He was here on a student visa because he's from Bermuda. He wanted to be with me so he could marry me and become a citizen (although it's not quite that easy). I don't know why he didn't just marry her. It could be that his family disapproved of her, or that he just wanted to mess around. I should have known what was going on when he proposed to me in Bermuda and then wouldn't even touch me. He wouldn't kiss me or hug me or be physical in any way. Every couple of months he would throw me a bone (haha), but that was it.

I cheated on him because of it. I told him, too. I said there's no way that he's going to decide that I don't get to have sex. I told him if he wouldn't do it that I'd find someone who would. And I did. Needless to say we broke up shortly after.

NOTE TO SELF: Consider being mean and wrong. (JUST KIDDING - - sort of.)

It's the only way to be.

[OneYogini]

Well, Indy, that does explain it! [quote=Indygrrl]Well, because he was an asshole. /QUOTE] Where's that "smack head" smiley when ya' need it! lol!

On the "way to be"...DON'T HELP me BE more tempted!!

Chicago how YOU doin'!?!

[Anaxagoras]

Originally Posted by Chicago Faucet

2. She has a history of depression. She is currently on birth control pills, Wellbutrin, and Effexor. Each one was added at different times, and they mostly keep her stable.
...
12. She hates her job, but so far is refusing to put herself out to find a different one.

My soon-to-be-ex went on Wellbutrin two years ago. We last had sex ... two years ago. One of the side effects of Wellbutrin is to _erase_ the female sex drive.

On the other hand, my soon-to-be-ex also hated her job, quit, and then refused to find a another one. So it might or might not be the anti-depressants.

[dublos]

Originally Posted by Chicago Faucet

.
.
.
1. She did fake orgasms until a year into our marriage.
2. She has a history of depression. She is currently on birth control pills, Wellbutrin, and Effexor. Each one was added at different times, and they mostly keep her stable.
.
.
.
6. She doesn't like forplay. When she gives in to me, the act needs to be started and completed as soon as possible.

Toss the question about other forms of intimacy back into the blender.

Add in a dash of the question about how the other aspects of your relationship are going.

Depression often lowers sex drive by itself. Wellbutrin adds to that and makes it more difficult to orgasm.

Number 6, now that one sounds like a) someone who's been sexually abused (but you already asked about that) or someone brought up in an extreemly inhibited environment who's internalized the belief that sex is dirty and bad. If she only thinks of sex as something that she does for you then we've found the big chewey center of this tootsie roll pop.

i.e. No wonder you're not getting any.. she's not enjoying anything about it when you do, and if she does happen to get any enjoyment from it, she's then wracked with guilt about having enjoyed having sex.

[Missy2U]

7. I masturbate all the time.
8. My porn collection is quite extensive.

It was because of these two things that I almost ended my marriage. Things are better now, but hey - I'm being honest. Maybe she has issues with that too.

[Indygrrl]

Originally Posted by Anaxagoras

My soon-to-be-ex went on Wellbutrin two years ago. We last had sex ... two years ago. One of the side effects of Wellbutrin is to _erase_ the female sex drive.

I don't know about that. They advertise it as one of the only anti-depressants with a "low risk of sexual side effects." Are you sure it was Wellbutrin?

[Indygrrl]

Originally Posted by Missy2U

It was because of these two things that I almost ended my marriage. Things are better now, but hey - I'm being honest. Maybe she has issues with that too.

So if she's not giving him any what's he supposed to do? Become a monk? I would think the porn/masturbation is a result of the lack of sex, not the cause.

And, I'll never understand why that bothers some women. I think of it as a normal part of life. Why does it bother you so much?

[Missy2U]

No, no, no - that's not what I was saying. I apologize for not being clearer.

As you mentioned as well, I have no way of knowing if the problem he's experiencing is the cause of the porn or the result of it - I just threw it out there as a possibility. Kind of like everyone was throwing out possibilities.

And yes, porn CAN be part of a normal sex life for some people. It can also be a huge problem if one of the partners is getting nothing because of it and it is creating problems in the relationship.

There are also people who are morally opposed to it - I don't know Chicago Faucet's wife - so I don't know.

THAT'S what I am saying.

And please don't assume that I have some kind of "hangup" - I have a husband who has (well had - he is working on it) a real problem which came very close to destroying not only our sex life, but our marriage and any trust I had in him. He's working hard to rebuild it, and our marriage, but that's neither here nor there, and I don't want to go into it further.

[Indygrrl]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound like I thought you had a hangup. I've just heard a lot of women say they have problems with a guy who has porn or masturbates. Of course I don't know you're specific problem. Obviously, there's more to it than just the porn. Not trying to be nosy, I promise.

[Geobabe]

Originally Posted by Indygrrl

I don't know about that. They advertise it as one of the only anti-depressants with a "low risk of sexual side effects." Are you sure it was Wellbutrin?

Everybody's mileage varies, unfortunately. I had wonderful positive sexual side effects with Wellbutrin--we're talking amazingly powerful orgasms--and it's my understanding that it's frequently given because it has a much lower frequency of negative effects, but I've also heard from several women that their experience with it was the opposite of mine. There doesn't seem to be any way to predict in advance what anyone's reaction to it will be.

[Eva Luna]

Originally Posted by dublos

Depression often lowers sex drive by itself. Wellbutrin adds to that and makes it more difficult to orgasm.

Lots of antidepressants have that effect on some people. So does the Pill. Any chance she will talk to her doc about adjusting or switching her medication? Or is she not interested in discussing her lack of desire at all, no matter what the reason might be?

If she won’t discuss the issue, to me that’s a much larger problem than her lack of interest in sex per se. But it sounds like you have several layers of issues going on here. And one of them might be, or might not be, her views on sex and sin in the first place. But if she was willing to have sex before, and she isn’t now, then something has changed in the interim; it seems odd that if she thought premarital sex was wrong, that she’d be willing to have sex before the marriage but not after.

Also, is either of you opposed to trying another counselor? Because I definitely second the idea that if you don’t “click” with a counselor, it will do more harm than good, but the right one has the potential to do a lot of good if you’re both open to the idea.

[Ferret Herder]

Yeah, everyone's different when it comes to their response to antidepressants. Remember, depression is thought to be caused by (at least neurochemically) problems with how the brain handles one or more of 3 (IIRC) neurotransmitters. And these neurotransmitters effect other brain functions as well. So it's pretty complex, and sometimes you need to have dosages and/or meds changed.

Also, some women report a loss of sex drive with certain types of birth control pills, but not all. Birth control pills come in a wide variety of hormone ingredients and dosages as well.

For me, Wellbutrin XL set me back to my normal levels of sex drive (high), but that's not true for everyone.

Unfortunately, from his followup answers, I'm kind of leaning towards her having had this issue for a while and covering it up, then just "giving up" after the marriage was done, like either she couldn't continue any longer with the charade, or possibly that she figured she didn't have to any longer. I'm also suspecting that it might be due to medication side effects, or might be something from before that point that could possibly require counseling. Or possibly it's a medical problem that hasn't been diagnosed - some women have too-low testosterone levels (a little bit goes a long way in women, but there's still a problem with too little) that leads to low libido, and things like a testosterone cream, injection, or patch actually help. Or other medical problems can lead to low libido.

And I agree, sometimes porn is a cause of a problem (other partner doesn't think it's right, one partner avoids sex and uses porn as an outlet, one partner is obsessive and secretive about it, etc.), and sometimes it's an outlet as a result of a problem.

It's... very unfortunate that apparently she felt a need to hide this from you (if I'm reading the situation right), Chicago Faucet, but it's quite likely that she felt ashamed or embarrassed. I wish you luck.

[Chicago Faucet]

Addendums:

1. She comes from a VERY stoic family. Very little affection is shown between them. For crying out loud, her father's favorite topin of conversation is my gas bill. This has obvious ramifications.
2. She went through 8 grades of parochial catholic school.
3. Both of our families are Catholic. Mine is the loud German/Irish type. Hers is the castigating Italian type. Neither of us are religious today, and we do not attend church.
4. She is afraid of changing her medication ever since an incident about two years ago where one of her medications ran out for two days. That was ugly.
5. We have very little affection between us. We don't snuggle in bed. We don't kiss more than a peck in the morning. We hug everyday, but that is about it. This is because it is the way that she wants it. I have had to ratchet down my urges to meet hers.
6. We have long, intelligent, and hilarious conversations. We have each other rolling on the floor most times. We love movies, and old stuff.

[UrbanChic]

Chicago Faucet, your wife sounds like your best friend and little else. A wife, in most cases, is your best friend and lover, as well. The lover part is, again, in most cases, as important as the best friend part.

[Ferret Herder]

Originally Posted by Chicago Faucet

4. She is afraid of changing her medication ever since an incident about two years ago where one of her medications ran out for two days. That was ugly.

Effexor, right? That's known to have very bad withdrawal effects, and needs to be tapered off. I don't think Wellbutrin does (heck, I forget to take them on weekends sometimes, because I'm not in my normal morning routine). A doctor's appointment would be needed to discuss any possible medication changes, and a physician would almost certainly know how to deal with the Effexor.

But... she has to want to make any changes. She might see trying to do this as just being something for you, and thus feel little motivation - or even resistance - to deal with it. She has to see this as something that would be good for her and desireable to go through with. And if the next medication change has worse side effects or something, she's not going to be real likely to want to continue with it if she doesn't have real motivation to help herself. Heck, the medication that prevents my migraines also makes me very lightheaded and near blacking out when I stand too quickly, and every now and then I wonder if it's worth dealing with that. Then I remember that 3-4 migraines a month are not pleasant, and I deal.

[MinniePurl]

Well, I have to say that I come from a fairly stoic, non-affectionate (Irish-Italian Catholic) family, and I don't have problems with being affectionate with my husband. There is something weird going on here... to be so resistant to sex with your own husband and then cry about it when you do "give in"? That just doesn't seem normal to me.

Perhaps I'm strange because if my husband wants to have sex and I'm not feeling so frisky, I'll usually go ahead and have sex anyway. The only times I really refuse are when I feel really sick, or so tired that I wouldn't even be able to stay awake. A lot of the times it's not so much that I don't want sex as that the effort it would take to have an orgasm at that particular time just isn't worth it to me, so I tell him to pretty much "go on ahead and don't worry about me". It's not as if I ever find sex with him unpleasant, so I figure why not do something that will make him feel good, even if my interest isn't that high at the particular time. It seems odd to me that some people find sex with their spouse to be something so unpleasant that they would refuse. Seems to me that if I don't want to have sex with this person... I shouldn't be married to him.

I also doubt that it's the Wellbutrin that is causing low libido. It's known for increasing sex drive in some people. For Mr. Purl and myself (we both take it), we found that it didn't increase our libidos, but didn't mess them up like SSRIs did.

I had problems like this in my first marriage (he was more interested in porn than me), and to me your situation sounds intolerable. The constant rejection was soul-crushing. You've got to do something to either change the situation or get out of the situation.

[Syntropy]

Originally Posted by Chicago Faucet

Addendums:

3. Both of our families are Catholic. Mine is the loud German/Irish type. Hers is the castigating Italian type. Neither of us are religious today, and we do not attend church.

Um. Scusi, signore, but I am Italian. My family is far from castigating. Loud? Boisterous? Everyone talking/eating/laughing at once? Hell yes. Not all Italians are quiet, conservative and expect their women to keep their eyes cast down and their voices quiet. If anything, the women in my family wear the pants, and sex is a prime topic of conversation at just about every gathering. Just sayin'.
That said; I'm sure the parochial school had a lot to do with her feelings toward sex. *sigh*..... the one thing a girl must NOT come out of school with is good feelings about her body and herself as a sexual being. And, yes, I did go to parochial school, thank you very much. Boys are bad, bad, bad, sex is evil, evil, evil, and touching a penis is just one step above tongue kissing the devil. it's really rather sad that these things are still allowed to be taught. Although, her mother could have gone a long way toward easing that psychological trauma, had she so chosen.

[Chicago Faucet]

Originally Posted by Maureen

Um. Scusi, signore, but I am Italian. My family is far from castigating. Loud? Boisterous? Everyone talking/eating/laughing at once? Hell yes. Not all Italians are quiet, conservative and expect their women to keep their eyes cast down and their voices quiet. If anything, the women in my family wear the pants, and sex is a prime topic of conversation at just about every gathering. Just sayin'.
That said; I'm sure the parochial school had a lot to do with her feelings toward sex. *sigh*..... the one thing a girl must NOT come out of school with is good feelings about her body and herself as a sexual being. And, yes, I did go to parochial school, thank you very much. Boys are bad, bad, bad, sex is evil, evil, evil, and touching a penis is just one step above tongue kissing the devil. it's really rather sad that these things are still allowed to be taught. Although, her mother could have gone a long way toward easing that psychological trauma, had she so chosen.

Of course I know that all Italian families are not quiet. The adjectives that I used, "loud," and "castigating," were simply adjectives that described our particular families. I wasn't making a generalization at all. I feel that the mental image that I was striving for was met.

I am positive that the Catholic parochial school had a long lasting effect on her. She tells me of a story one time where they had just gotten their science text books at the beginning of the year. This was, maybe, third or fourth grade. During the handing out of the books, she took a chance to page forward through hers. One of the chapters dealt with Anthropology, and mentioned, , Evolution! She mentioned to one of the nuns about how excited she would be when they would get to that chapter. The nun smiled and nodded. They never got to that chapter.

She still went on to get her Bachelor Degree in Anthropology from the University of Pittsburgh.