Enterprise: United (Spoilers)

Wearia · #1 02-04-2005, 07:28 PM

Well, we have precious few of these left so lets get at her.

Though that being said, if we had more episodes like this one, cancellation wouldn't be a problem.

In this episode we start to see the begining of the Federation. It brings a tear to the eye. Are any of the original species missing from this episode? Looks like the handshake will become the official greeting of the Federation...Maybe... Also Romulan continuity is not only kept with, it is explained why the Romulans managed to stay hidden in the war (Remote controlled drone ship fleet anyone?)

Some cool things in this episode I don't remember seeing in Trek before. The Drone ship barrel rolls and Tripp and Reid jumping out of a moving ship ala Hitchhikers Guide. I wonder if that was intentional?

I think this may have been the best episode this season. The fleet showing up gave me the heeby jeebies. Alas...

*sigh*
I'm gonna miss these threads. All aboard mates.

Ephemera · #2 02-04-2005, 08:38 PM

The worst thing about this cancellation is no more threads.. you guys are literally why I'm a Doper and I'm getting melancholy.

sweetfreak · #3 02-04-2005, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wearia

Though that being said, if we had more episodes like this one, cancellation wouldn't be a problem.

I have to be honest, I haven't been watching Enterprise. I tried, but couldn't get into it. However, I happened to watch tonight's episode, and it reeled me in. I actually understood what was going on and got emotional over the characters.
And now they are going to cancel the series.
It figures.

carnivorousplant · #4 02-04-2005, 10:29 PM

Maybe I'm just depressed at cancelation and that the Canadian feed is now digital and I can't get it. How do you people stand those commercials, bugs and in show previews? Dammit.

Bakula can't act.
The episode was written by Trek novelist who use GTR (Gratuitous Trek References (TM)) out the kazoo.

Stolen scenes:
Holographic Romulan ship-Balance of Terror. The FO had gray hair in both.
Ritual fight to the death between friends over a woman with clever way out-Amok Time
Dying in space, rescued by your ship at the last minute-A voyager episode, I don't remember which. Mrs Plant tells me Torres was pregnant at the time; just as Paris floating in his space suit passes out, the image of Voyager appears on his faceplate, fade to black. Really nice scene, but we get Bakula, "Anybody out there need a lift?" Assinine.

The radiation poisioning sucked, you don't recover from that. Roentgens per time measures safe exposure. You don't get better after over exposure, you die. At best, Trip can't work as an engineer anymore having received a near fatal dose.

Nice point-Shran losing his balance upon the loss of a sensory organ.

Good make up for Telerites and Andorians. TOS would have gone seven seasons with it. ^

^

NoClueBoy · #5 02-04-2005, 11:13 PM

I seem to be getting good at missing ENT eps lately.

vivalostwages · #6 02-04-2005, 11:17 PM

'plant: You're right on the money re: the radiation poisoning. At the very least, Trip would have nasty blotches all over his skin and his kids would be born with two heads, assuming he survived long enough to make a deposit in the sperm bank.

NCB: How could you??? There was a fight, a 'tenna hacked off, Trip and Mal had a wonderful scene in the last couple of minutes, Trav and Hoshi actually had screen time--together, no less!--and dammit, Talas croaked.

Damn you, Leslie Moonves. Damn you to helllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!

NoClueBoy · #7 02-04-2005, 11:25 PM

Tripp's kids:

SPOILER:

NoClueBoy · #8 02-04-2005, 11:27 PM

I met some friends for some drinks.

At one point, I said, "It's GREEN!" and a cute Andorian babe came up and bit me.

vivalostwages · #9 02-04-2005, 11:33 PM

You shoulda seen the freaky albino Andorian at the end of this ep!!

vivalostwages · #10 02-04-2005, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoClueBoy

Tripp's kids:

SPOILER:

I'm sure it'll die or be some weird experiment or something.

Tripp? Ah, yes, you got that from 'pplant.

What is it with you ppeopple and your love of ppees?

NoClueBoy · #11 02-04-2005, 11:46 PM

You don't love the pee pee?

vivalostwages · #12 02-05-2005, 01:23 AM

I do if it's Trippee.

Cervaise · #13 02-05-2005, 03:35 AM

I agree that c'plant's nitpicks have merit, but somehow I managed to overlook them and enjoy the episode. In fact, I'm a little concerned about how much I enjoyed the episode; I'm worried that I'm becoming sentimental in my Trek dotage and am more positively disposed toward the show now that it's circling the drain.

I will need to watch it again. The fact that I am willing to watch it again should be viewed as a preliminary positive vote.

Oh, and Jeffrey Combs ROCKS!

Transmission to resume.

tarragon918 · #14 02-05-2005, 03:54 AM

Wow - what a great episode! Which makes the cancellation news even harder to deal with, unfortunately.

I am so glad that Jeffrey Coombs plays Shran - I loved to hate him on DS9; he's a great actor, though.

I'm not sure what to make of the what appeared to be an albino Andorian; in the previews for next week's show there was mention of a new race being the remote controllers for the drones, but the one they showed certainly had an Andorian look, imo.

Have to laugh at Plant's GTR for the Reeves-Stevens' - because I'm actually glad that they've been writing these episodes; I love the references they throw in!!

Some (but by no means all!) of the ST novels are actually very good, folks. And most of their work falls into that category, at least for me it does, that is.

I've got to get my tapes ready for the rest of the season. I definitely want to have them on tape now.

carnivorousplant · #15 02-05-2005, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivalostwages

You shoulda seen the freaky albino Andorian at the end of this ep!!

That would be one of the Aenar.

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...sode/8432.html

vivalostwages · #16 02-05-2005, 09:51 PM

One little nitpick....?

The Tellarites insist on turning up the temperature on Enterprise.
So...if the Andorians come from an icy planet, shouldn't they be demanding that the temp be turned way down?

Missed opportunity, but I guess the differences between the two races are already apparent.

Damn, this was a fun ep.

Shit.

Fuck UPN, Dawn Ostroff, and Les Moonves.

Okay, I'll stop now. I know it's not the Pit.

---------------
Anybody read the spoilers about the Mirror ENT universe? Sounds juicy.

carnivorousplant · #17 02-05-2005, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivalostwages

So...if the Andorians come from an icy planet, shouldn't they be demanding that the temp be turned way down?

Are insects endo or exo thermic? I believe roaches die at 110 F.
OTOH, Tellerites like to argue, and Andorians are tough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivalostwages

Anybody read the spoilers about the Mirror ENT universe? Sounds juicy.

I haven't heard that Tripp kills Cap'n Leap and takes command. Dammit.

vivalostwages · #18 02-05-2005, 10:55 PM

That's because

SPOILER:

carnivorousplant · #19 02-05-2005, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivalostwages

That's because

No, it's because G-d hates me.

vivalostwages · #20 02-05-2005, 11:08 PM

Well, that's the default reason.

Where is everyone? Stunned from the news of earlier this week? Or waiting to see the rerun?

carnivorousplant · #21 02-05-2005, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivalostwages

Well, that's the default reason.

No, She really does.
I'm terribly sorry that the rest of you got caught up in this.

^

^

Ephemera · #22 02-06-2005, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivalostwages

Well, that's the default reason.

Where is everyone? Stunned from the news of earlier this week? Or waiting to see the rerun?

I was asleep.

And I'm still brooding. No more ENT threads.

vivalostwages · #23 02-06-2005, 01:38 PM

Anybody else coming to this thread? ENT goes on through half of May, so at least we can enjoy thread-chatting for a while.

NCB, hope you can catch the rerun or watch your tape, if you made one.

CandidGamera · #24 02-06-2005, 01:49 PM

Waugh! My VCR failed me on Friday. I missed this installment. Woe is me!

vivalostwages · #25 02-06-2005, 06:11 PM

They show the rerun on Sat. or Sun. It's on today at 5pm PST.
Otherwise, you'll have to wait a few months.

Or get the DVDs.

NoClueBoy · #26 02-06-2005, 11:15 PM

Valdore (Brian Thompson), the Romulan shroud ship commander, is an Alien Bounty Hunter from X-Files.

Remans show up. Yeay.

As for the Aenar controlers of the shroud ships and sub space time lag, perhaps it's not sub space after all. Remember ansibles? Sniggertrance? The Buggers? Psychic twins? All of these were real time ftl communication. So, the idea is a workable one. Especially since Romulans didn't find ftl travel in the normal way, but rather through use of qantum singularities. It's a thought, that's all. But it does take care care of that shroud ship piloting nit.

NoClueBoy · #27 02-06-2005, 11:22 PM

Aw, shit. That brings up a bigger nit.

The shroud ship has warp capability. Through out the Romulan Wars and up to the time of Balance of terror, Rommies didn't have warp of any kind. The Romulan War was faought with sublightspeed ships only. That's how Humans eneded up winning. Any Romulan space ship from before BoT should be limited to STL only.

Unless I'm missing something. Anyone?

NoClueBoy · #28 02-06-2005, 11:24 PM

STL on the Rommie side, that is. Humans had FTL and thus a very real tactical advantage.

NoClueBoy · #29 02-06-2005, 11:46 PM

A rag tag fleet...

The visuals of the ships flying around Malcolm and tripp were very well done.

Tripp's picking on Malcolm cements his position as one of the best Trek characters ever.

Now, let's see what they do with this Aenar connection.

MEBuckner · #30 02-07-2005, 12:34 AM

One thing I didn't like about the episode was having the Romulans directly addressing Trip and Reed. I thought it sort of lessened their mysterious remoteness, and it seemed rather implausible--just kill the pesky humans as swiftly as possible, never mind what damage they've done, the ship has self-repair capabilities, you just need to stop them from doing more stuff so the ship can get on with fixing itself. And, well, it just seemed to detract from the drama of the "mysterious race no one has seen which uses remote-controlled ships to carry out sneaky, deep-laid plots" thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoClueBoy

Aw, shit. That brings up a bigger nit.

The shroud ship has warp capability. Through out the Romulan Wars and up to the time of Balance of terror, Rommies didn't have warp of any kind. The Romulan War was faought with sublightspeed ships only. That's how Humans eneded up winning. Any Romulan space ship from before BoT should be limited to STL only.

Unless I'm missing something. Anyone?

I think this might be one place where continuity be damned, they should just ignore "canon". The whole "Romulans didn't have FTL during the first war" thing just doesn't make no sense. If they don't have FTL, why would we even be messing with them? Just leave them the hell alone, it's not like they can get out and do anything. For all practical purposes, they'd be stuck there in their own system.

Star Trek has always been very weak on issues of spatial scale. (Actually this is true of most visual--TV and movie--science fiction.)

spiralscratch · #31 02-07-2005, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoClueBoy

Valdore (Brian Thompson), the Romulan shroud ship commander, is an Alien Bounty Hunter from X-Files.

That's where I've seen him before! I kept trying to pin him to another Trek role and it was bugging me that I couldn't make a connection.

DWMarch · #32 02-07-2005, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiralscratch

That's where I've seen him before! I kept trying to pin him to another Trek role and it was bugging me that I couldn't make a connection.

He was also on BTVS as Luke, the Master's lackey from the first two episodes. He appeared in season 2 as The Judge as well.

As to the warp drive issue, I ask anyone to show me the episode where anyone said "The entirety of the Romulan Fleet is powered by impulse engines only and they definitely do not have any warp capable ships." IIRC, Scotty said they had "simple impulse" but he was referring to a single ship that may have already been battle damaged at the time. Or the Romulans were sticking to impulse because their cloak or plasma weapon drew too much power... or they were trying to fool the Enteprise crew into underestimating them... or et cetera.

athelas · #33 02-07-2005, 07:20 AM

Anyone thinks that the whole "alliance" thing was kind of flimsy? I mean, there's *one ship* out there that has a very readable power signature, and rather than, say, following its warp trail or something, they get together over a hundred ships and go out looking. And there was no scene about getting five fleets together, or nuthin'.

I'm with Shran's mocking "your precious alliance".

OTOH, the music this week was good.

the Lady · #34 02-07-2005, 08:08 AM

Well, I'm late to the party, as usual.
(missed the UPN show on Friday - had to catch it later in the weekend)

Sigh. I really do like this show.
Why do they always get better AFTER you know they are cancelled?

NoClueBoy · #35 02-07-2005, 08:37 AM

The BoT impulse only ship is indeed one of the silliest canon points ever, but it is canon. Athelas' scenario works for me, tho, so maybe we can just go with that.

The other problem is the time lag problem. From TOS to VOY, mention has been made of a subspace timelag in communications. I see a very easy workaround, tho. If the next ep in this shows that the Aenar's telepathy isn't connected to subspace, then it shows that the writers are actually thinking about how this fits in with the rest of Trek and not just throwing out GTRs.

Remember, these nits are in place soley because they are attempting to explain Trek canon in the first place with this arc setting up an alliance that will lead to the Federation. So... if they're going to try to be explaining canon, they damn well better keep things (even small things) within canon. That is my feeling towards this entire series, esp in regards to canon specific eps like these.

BTW, the ep was very enjoyable. I esp liked the Tripp/Malcolm interactions.

Ephemera · #36 02-07-2005, 12:35 PM

The Bird of Prey having only impulse can be (and has been) explained away as the cloaking device needing so much power that while it is in use, they're limited to impulse only. Otherwise, it would have taken them eight years to even cross the Neutral Zone and then get back to their own Empire, not to mention getting back to Romulus itself.

And the Romulan was named Valdore? I can't decide if that's cool or cheesy. The new Warbird that debuted in Nemesis is the Valdore class. Very subtle tribute there.

vivalostwages · #37 02-07-2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Lady

Well, I'm late to the party, as usual.
(missed the UPN show on Friday - had to catch it later in the weekend)

Sigh. I really do like this show.
Why do they always get better AFTER you know they are cancelled?

That's the sick irony of it all. What really gets me is that Moonves wouldn't even wait until the end of February sweeps before pulling the plug. He killed the show in early Feb. knowing full well that many people would tune out once they caught the scent of death.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NoClueBoy · #38 02-07-2005, 02:15 PM

Good catch, Aes.

And that actually helps to underscore the point I'm being pedanticly obsessive over. If they're going to be so canonical as to tie in having Reman guards (yes, the Nosfaratu looking guys) and a Romulan of note for a later ship class naming homage, then they should likewise be concerned with the other, sometimes bigger, aspects of canon.

Otherwise, it's just GTRs, which make 'plant's wife nervous.

Ephemera · #39 02-07-2005, 02:27 PM

I'm not sure I'm following. What're you saying the gratuitous reference is here? Valdore? Remans? Rihannsu FTL travel? Shrouds?

NoClueBoy · #40 02-07-2005, 03:06 PM

My ESL is failing me this week, it seems.

Those will be GTRs if the big things aren't addresed canonically. You can't just ignore something if you're making what you call a canonically accurate episode (or arc). Which is what Manny and Co have said they are attempting to do.

Just throwing out refs and homages doesn't make a storyline fit inside an already established history.

Of course, all of this is simply a pre-emptive strike. The arc, indeed the season, just might surprise me and wrap things up nicely. We'll just have to wait and see.

Thing is, if they can't do a prequel right, it shouldn't be done. I am beginning to think some of the others were right after all. Forget about canon and go somewhere they really haven't been before. What that might be, I don't know. But, we aren't going to fix ENT with a few GTRs just splayed about willy nilly.

Little willy nilly won't

go home

you can't make Willy play

Willy won't stay

Damn, my catheter fell out again.

Corner Case · #41 02-07-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoClueBoy

Damn, my catheter fell out again.

Now that's a tough act to follow.

It was a fun episode. It was stupid that the Romulans didn't just quickly kill the humans in the holo-ship. But it felt a lot like classic Trek.

Positives:

Nice idea to create a holo-Enterprise to terrorize.
Since Travis worked out the grid that needed the Alliance - Travis is the founder of the Federation!
"Maybe you need to be like humans for a change" - "And you said you wouldn't be insulting."
Talas' death was sad, but at lesat the writers can kill when needed.
I loved Sharn's antenna being cut and Shran stumbling.
I loved Trip whooshing Reed with that "disobeying a direct order" line.

A common annoyance is unnecessary dialogue. The Romulans continually have to say "lock on to target", "check the internal sensors", or "activate the backup reactor." Just let people do their job and don't micromanage them.

Annoying Nitpicks:

Why do you never hear a pop as someone transports from vacumm to air? Not to mention condensation from the air onto a cold suit, or steam if the suit was hot.
So the Romulans stop shaking Trip/Reed around to lock on to the next target. They just assume Trip/Reed will die. Is Dr. Evil a Romulan?
You get a deadly infection due to a phase-pulse weapon. I get getting an infection, but what has phased-pulse got to do with it?
"Minister T'Pau"? She rose to power rather quickly.
Trip gets the environmentals working and there's lots of noise as the air rushes in. It would take time before there is enough air to conduct sound.
What's reactor coolant doing just outside the bridge?
How did 128 ships of various species agree to join, communicate, and get to the rendezvous all in a hours?
Trip should be radiation poisoned with the exposure he had!
Rotating the camera around Hoshi and Travis was annoying! I was getting seasick.
When T'Pol responded "It doesn't match" what was she talking about? Warp signatures?
Enterprise could not get a weapons lock through the camoflage but could get a lock on the emitters? Uh, why's that?
Trip and Reed floating in space was stupid. They bounced back and forth against each other instead of obeying the laws of motion.
The blind Andorian pilot was weird. Why have a helmet cover a blind pilot's eyes? Why Andorian?

So what's this "Jolan true" reference?

Khan · #42 02-07-2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corner Case

So what's this "Jolan true" reference?

It's some kind of Romulan salutation akin to "live long and prosper" or "qa'pla," although I don't know what it means.

vivalostwages · #43 02-07-2005, 05:23 PM

"Jo'Lon'Tru" (phonetic spelling?) is something I recall from TNG. I thought it meant something like "I'm loyal to the Empire" or "Long Live the empire" or some such thing.

And just in case it still matters---here is more dirt on UPN:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dawn Ostroff hated ENT from the beginning.

As Scott Bakula pointed out in many interviews, ENT was greenlighted
under other executives who brought him onto the project -- Dean
Valentine, Kerry McCluggage, and Garry Hart. Valentine left soon
after ENT premiered. McCluggage around 2002 or 2003, and then Hart
just last year.

It's been Ostroff slowly starving ENT for four years. This is akin
to someone not feeding a plant for a week, and then coming back to
it and saying, "Oh look, this plant is lifeless. Time to get rid of
it."

When the lack of publicity was brought up by cast and fans alike,
her answer always was that the show had its fans, and that these
fans were advertised to in year one.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The beetch.

Mr. Blue Sky · #44 02-07-2005, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivalostwages

Dawn Ostroff hated ENT from the beginning.
<snip>
The beetch.

The same kind of thinking killed MST3K. Twice.

After all the discussions we've had here about good shows that have been killed off by various networks, it's blindingly obvious that the majority of people in network programming have never actually watched TV.

Morbo · #45 02-07-2005, 05:52 PM

To be continued AGAIN? Not a good way to get someone who's only seen two episodes to keep watching....not that they care.

Stupid questions: Why did cutting off Shran's antenna allow Archer to win? There were 20,000 codicils to that stupid law, and one of them was "If you cut off an antenna, you win." ?? "Fight to the death! <unless you cut off a finger, then you win, it's over>" Which isn't even a valid comparison, since fingers don't grow back and those antenna grow back in 9 months. So you can win by cutting off something that grows right back? Silly. And if that silly codicil really existed, why did it take so long for the other crew members to find it?

I thought the sensors were down on Enterprise. I was expecting a complex way for the two drifting crewmembers to get back...instead they simply fixed it two minutes later and beamed them back aboard. Yawn.

Quote:

Valdore (Brian Thompson), the Romulan shroud ship commander, is an Alien Bounty Hunter from X-Files.

And I always see him and say "It's the bad guy from Cobra!"

Ephemera · #46 02-07-2005, 06:07 PM

Jolan'tru is the Rihannsu (Romulan) equivalent of aloha. It means both hello and goodbye.

And NCB, while Valdore is a gratuitous reference, I don't see how anything else mentioned is. It looks to me like they are trying to dispel the myth that the Romulans never had FTL engines until their pact with the Klingons since the tactical advantage Earth would have had otherwise would have made a long war impossible and Balance of Terror highly improbable. Granted, I haven't seen the episode yet but based on what's been mentioned so far, I don't see much of an issue.

Besides, what's the cut-off point between GTRs and keeping continuity?

NoClueBoy · #47 02-07-2005, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Besides, what's the cut-off point between GTRs and keeping continuity?

I don't know.

Maybe I'm just bitter over the whole ENT "lack of viewership" bullshit. Just like FOX/TV, what do you expect to happen to a niche show that doesn't get promoted?

Pakleds.

Ephemera · #48 02-07-2005, 07:45 PM

What'd the Pakleds ever do to you?

vivalostwages · #49 02-07-2005, 08:02 PM

Pickin' on Pakleds?! Those guys are hilarious!

Does anyone here want an extra ENT 2005 calendar? It has a cool diagram in the middle; just ask NCB.

Wanna see the bullshit email I got from UPN? It's below......
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for writing to UPN. The STAR TREK legacy has spanned nearly four decades and has spawned five television series. Ten years ago, STAR TREK: VOYAGER was instrumental in helping launch UPN.

The latest incarnation, STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE, has reached the culmination of its journey. This painstaking decision came after it was recognized that despite having many loyal fans like you, the audience for the show was declining steadily.
Therefore, ENTERPRISE is set to decommission and will be given a grand send-off on Friday, May 13th at 8 PM ET/PT on UPN.
Well, isn't that special?

This does not mean that STAR TREK is gone forever. Paramount, the studio that produced all five television series and ten feature films, is looking forward to the next chapter of the STAR TREK saga.
When? In twenty fucking years when I'm contemplating retirement?

We know that this information may not make you feel any better but we want you to know how much we appreciate your input and we sincerely hope that you will continue to share your thoughts with us in the future.
UPN has no future in my home if there ain't no ENT on it.

Cordially,

UPN

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