We have a friend that went through a brutal divorce and an aftermath of it could only be called a Scorched Earth Theory by his Ex.
Since neither my husband or myself have a divorce on either side of our respective families why, yes, we live under a rock. and none of our long standing friends are divorced it’s a really big rock, we are just offering support, an ear to bend and beer therapy.
For those of you who have been through a divorce, watched your parents divorce, sat on the sidelines as various friends relationships went up in flames, I am asking for what you feel should be Rules of Etiquette for Divorce.
FWIW, kids are involved, which is why this is not exactly what one would call a Clean Break. We live in a micro-community where everyone knows everyone else either by face, rep or kids. Gossip travels really fast here. Both sides are very active in the community as their kids are. As my husband has been on the Front Line of it for a bit now, hearing the gossip and how much of it is distorted through the grapevine is maliciously interesting, to say the least.
Please ask your friends, coworkers and family for what they feel should be Rules of Divorce.
Sort of like the main rule here at the Dope, the #1 rule is Don’t Be A Jerk. This is someone you used to love, be an adult and have some respect. I can’t understand why people turn into raving juvenile idiots when they get divorced. Are they so hurt they have to lash out? Were they always so immature, but a spouse smoothed them down?
I have no idea, but despite the problems I had with my ex-husband, I can manage not to be a jerk to him, and never talk bad about him in front of our children.
Rule #2 - Your kids still love your spouse, even if you don’t any more. They are not your possessions or your weapons. If the idea of limiting their access to your spouse in order to punish him/her ever crosses your mind in a serious way, punch yourself in the teeth until the idea goes away.
Rule #1 should be closely followed–if not bumped by–my 1# rule, which is do NOT put children in the middle. That applies to bystanders, other family members and of course the divorcing couple.
Don’t pump the kids for news, don’t share gossip with them, don’t ever ever bash one of the parents–just don’t do it.
I just wish some divorcing couples wouldn’t also require their mutual friends to take one side or another as well. In the past I’ve wanted to stay friends with both since we were friends before but, inevitably, one will get pissed off that I’m still friends with the other.
While I understand your anger, please don’t insist I emulate it.
Rule #3 - You don’t get to badmouth the ex in front of the kids either. Feel free to bitch to your friends as much as you want, but as far as the children are concerned you should both be scrupulously polite to and about each other until all are grown.
My parents obeyed rules numbers 2 and 3, while my husband’s father stomped all over them. Guess which parental unit we’re no longer in contact with.
Don’t recruit people to your “side.” Not your friends, and definitely not your children.
If you owe child support, pay it. If you receive child support, use it to, I don’t know, support the kids.
Try to stay friends, or at least cordial and respectful. Like it or not, you’re going to be a partner in parenting with this person for the rest of your life. Why make it unnecessarily difficult?
Chiming in for the ‘‘kids’’ theme. I cannot even describe to you the endless destruction my husbands’ parents’ divorce has left in its wake. They’ve been divorced FIVE years… and they are STILL fighting over their 17 year old daughter in court! Almost every visitation involves the cops in some way, and of course my husband and myself get dragged into it, pushed into a position of being expected to take sides and raise my SIL for them because they’re so busy obsessing over their own victimhood they don’t even see their daughter. I just hope the damage done to her is not irreparable. They are mild-mannered, loving, interesting people when they are not dealing with each other. Then, they are completely batshit insane. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT put your children in the middle. It is the most unloving and wretched thing you could ever do to them.
Also, please don’t try to destroy the partner financially. I receive calls on a daily basis from people going through divorce who are absolutely devastated both emotionally and fiscally by the aftermath of divorce. There is already a great deal of suffering involved in the process already – why the hell would you want to make it worse? Revenge? That is immature and childish. People need to make sure during a divorce that they are both financially stable. The adjustment of going from a dual income to a single one can be devastating and frequently leads to bankruptcy. That is a deep suffering. I’ve had grown men break down and cry on the telephone because they are suddenly alone and broke and don’t know when they are going to see their children. Nobody deserves that kind of pain.
As you’re a friend of the divorcing couple, I’d add a couple rules for you:
Give them time, give them space, give them love. It’s a delicate balancing act between “digging for dirt”, “giving them their space” and “ignoring them and making them feel you don’t want to be friends any more”. You know better than I, but I think a weekly call would not be amiss - reminds them that you’re still willing to be a part of their lives, and if they want to get together, great! But it’s not daily badgering, either. Of course, if you’re call-each-other-everyday friends, keep that up.
Don’t badmouth the ex, the kids, the ex-mother in law or Barney the Purple Dinosaur. Listen, and nod and grunt noncommittally. But you never quite know how any of this is going to pan out; they might get back together, and now you’re the bitch that doesn’t like her husband. Or you might end up as the bitch who knew she was a worthless slut, but you never said anything all these years. It’s a volatile time, and they’re both likely to be looking to spread the blame and pain. Don’t get any of it on your skirts, if you can help it.
Give a hand with the kids. Now might be the perfect time to go see the Christmas lights at the zoo, go see Enchanted!, go do some holiday shopping for their parents. Take them off their folks’ hands while they’re grieving, dividing household goods, or visiting lawyers. While you have them, don’t mention the divorce; if they bring it up, let them lead the conversation. You can often get a lot more out of a kid with silence and the occasional, “yeah…” than with probing questions. They might want time just to hang out and not think about it, though.
I was so impressed with a guy I knew from college (who’s now a co-worker) at his sensible, mature manner when he and his wife decided to divorce. He had her father draw up what they both felt to be fair terms, signed it and has abided by it in full. No huge legal bills on each side going to lawyers instead of for groceries, mortgages, education, etc.
I don’t see divorce ever in our future, but if I did I’d hope that’s the way I’d manage to proceed.
I’d say the best bet is Stay Out Of It. I mean, if you’re a shoulder to cry on, that’s cool, but if the world is really that small around there, you don’t want to badmouth anybody, because it will get around.
I have noticed that post-breakup, there’s often “friends custody” like now you only get to hang out with one of the members of the couple, not both. I’m not really sure if that kind of thing can be prevented, but I’d like to think that Staying Out Of It surely helps.
#1. Don’t start shopping for blind dates for the guy. Let him deal with being alone. If you’re constantly trying to hook him up, he’s going to think there’s something horribly wrong with being alone.
#2. If he wants to cry on your shoulder or bend your ear, let him but don’t constantly bring up the divorce and such. Just let him be a regular guy. Try to just let him have some fun socializing with you. When I was going through my divorce it was nice to be with friends and to feel like something in my life was “normal.” Such as, going to a movie, going out to dinner, a movie, bike riding, renting silly movies (For Og’s sake don’t rent* Kramer Vs. Kramer*), etc.
#3. Don’t listen to or add to the gossip floating around town about their divorce.
And don’t tell him about what you’re hearing.
My friends and I call this “airing the pink panties” - meaning that when you fight with your husband you don’t go around telling everyone that he wears your pink panties under his clothes because once the fight is over all your friends have to look at him and know he’s wearing pink panties. And you have to look at your friends and know you all sat around laughing at him for it and eventually it can get turned around on the friends for laughing or, god forbid, bringing it up again later.
I have two very close friends that I have been leaning on during the divorce I am currently going through and one night one of them turned to me and said “I think it’s time to show the pink panties” so they could help me think of all the reasons I am good to be rid of him. But that was a bridge I knew I was burning when I did it. I would suggest that if either of the divorcing couple starts in on a “pink panty” moment you take that time to excuse yourself to get a drink.
I thought I would bump this thread and add a few items.
When all your friends and family are telling you you need to let go of her/him (it is resentment and bitterness, not any thing akin to love or respect.) It means you need to LET GO and Get On With Your Life.
When your ex brings up the people you have dated since the divorce, don’t bring up theirs ( regardless of their unsavory man-whore reputation.) Just smile and say, " When you filed for divorce, you set me free to enjoy my life as I would like. Thank you."
If you cannot talk to each other in a civilized fashion, stick to text messaging each other. This allows a cooling off period.
You need to recognize the need to grieve over the death of that relationship, then grieve. Then you can move on.
How you treat your ex and how you behave around this person is how your children will learn how to treat others who have farked them over in the future. Do you want them to just go to the Scorched Earth Method of Burn That Bridge And FUCK THEM ALL AND THEIR LITTLE DOG TOO!!! the second they’ve been slighted or screwed. Do you want them to be so hard hearted and hard headed or do youwant to teach them how to handle things with dignity, a measure of rational control and reason so that they can learn from their experience and then MOVE ON.
As someone who went through a very bitter and nasty divorce that, very fortunately did not involve children;
Yeah, no Scorched Earth. You win what now? Ashes? In pain and anger it’s easy to say “If I can’t have everything, then I’ll make sure that there is nothing left”, but this isn’t life and death, it’s divorce. Both of you are going to live through it, and you’re going to have to live with the ruin you’ve wrought. Moreso, you’re going to have to live with yourself for having done it.
Don’t for the friends to chose sides. In my experience, they’ll do it anyway.
Friends:
Please don’t pick sides, please don’t spread rumors, please don’t relay to me all the nasty things she’s saying, especially don’t throw them at me as if you believe every word. If you do throw it at me, don’t be surprised if I throw something back. I don’t have to sit quietly while you throw shit at me, so don’t act all offended if I don’t just take it. Don’t like it? Don’t do it.
Don’t write people out of your life just because they’re going through some hard times and you want to “stay positive”. Being a dickhead to people in pain is not staying positive, it’s being the worst form of humanity. (I had some friends who did this because they said that they only wanted to deal with positive things in life. How nice. I hope there is such a thing as Karma just for this kind of shit.)
Be there. If you can tolerate being a shoulder to cry on, please do it. If it gets to be too much, cut it off nicely, but try to still be there. Be open and honest about it. Tell the person that you’re trying to be there for them, but that all the talk and pain is getting a bit much and you’d like to just spend some time with them as friends and help them get their minds off of it, if even just for a few minutes. If necessary, keep changing the subject. Shut them up by taking them to a movie, library or an art gallery.
I have a few more: Please never blackmail your ex using visitation or financial matters. If your ex falls behind in his or her support payments, do not punish the kids by depriving them of their other parent. Do not refuse to let her/him see the kids for holidays because the gifts aren’t what you asked him/her to buy them. Please do encourage your kids to initiate contact with the other parent, even help them buy gifts or write letters or dial the phone for them.
I’ve never been divorced, but have observed a few and would respectfully allege that there are a few times when some of the advice here does not apply.
One of my friends found out that her husband had been (sexually) abusing their children. He NEVER gets visitation rights. Ever. He’s lucky he’s not in jail.
A relative’s husband was pretty much a jerk, and we all thought so, but never said anything to her. He was vulgar, verbally abusive, alcoholic, in and out of work, not a real support in any sense. When he started being abusive on the day she came home from finding her brother dead, and told her to get out of the house (which she was paying all the expenses for), that was the last straw. He never showed up for any court hearings, never paid any child support. Heck, he didn’t support them during the marriage, no reason he would start later. To her credit, the mother does permit some visitation by the younger child who wants to visit his father.
Obey the orders of the court, both as to the letter and the spirit of the law, scrupulously. If you disagree with an order, don’t disobey it - try to get the court to change it. If the court won’t, obey it anyway.
Ask yourself, “When I’m on my deathbed, how will I look back on this experience? Will I really want to be kicking myself for not making it go more smoothly/amicably for everyone?”
(I forget which comedian said, “Next time, I’m gonna take the direct approach: Find a woman I hate and immediately give her half of everything I own.”)
Two years ago my ex and I divorced after 25 years of marriage.
We grew apart over the years. We fought about everything. I had gotten sober through the simple program of AA (have remained so, too) and she couldn’t stand me sober. We figured we’d cut our losses and move on. It was amazingly amicable. She’s stayed single, I remarried, and we get along.
Our rules:
We never disparage each other in front of our kids, even thought they are adults now.
When we have family gatherings we act nice to each other.
…and finally, for me:
Ain’t nothing worth drinking over; living well is the best revenge.
