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Old 04-08-2011, 05:10 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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Attn: Fat People. Quit Your Fucking Whining!!

Stuck in a cubicle farm, wasting my life. Got these 5 women on my team. I'm the only guy. They're lovely people. Always pleasant, always quick with a smile. We get on. But 3 of them are really overweight, and one of the other two is...well, not fat as such, but still pretty ashamed. Like I say, nice people, and I enjoy their company. Usually. I do have one small complaint. These lovely women will, if you let them, whine about their fucking weight until the heat death of the universe! "Oh, it's so haaard." "Nothing I do ever woooorks." "It's impossible!!"

BULLSHIT!!

You either don't know what to do, or you do but you're choosing not to. It drives me mental.

And they talk so much bullshit as well! Here's a gem: Apparently, it's possible, if you really don't wanna diet, to "crunch" yourself thin. I don't know which dogshit fashion magazine or village idiot they got that from, but it's bullshit. Another one: Apparently, you should only eat carbs from between 12:00pm and 18:00pm. Fucked if I know how that works, but what's the point? Why torment yourself learning all these abstruse rules when the facts of weight loss are so simple.

I used to be a little tubby. Not much, just couple stone or so. So I did some reading, smartened up my diet and started working out. Now I've lost 80% of the weight and within a month or so will probably have a decent 6 pack. Well done me. Aren't I fucking special? Well, no. Not really. Fuck sake, people. It's not complicated. This is how you lose weight:

Quote:
1) Use this calculator to work out your BMR (BMR is how many calories you'd burn if you stayed in bed for 24 hours). Take that figure and multiply it by one of the following:

1.2 - Little to no exercise. Sedentary job.
1.375 - Light exercise 2-3 times a week.
1.55 - Moderate exercise 3-5 times a week.
1.725 - Heavy exercise 4-6 times a week.
1.9 - Heavy exercise 4-6 times a week + strenuous job.

Done? Right. That's how many calories (give or take) you burn every day. Now take 500 from that. That's your target. That's how many calories you need to eat every day to lose 1lb per week.

2) Take 40% of that figure. That number of calories must come from carbs. Take another 40%. That number of calories must come from protein. Take the remaining 20%. That's fat. Gotta make sure you eat some fat. There's 4 calories in a gram of carb & protein, 9 in a gram of fat. To work out what to eat, divide your carb figure by 4. That's how many grams of carbs you need to eat a day. Do the same with protein. Now take the fat figure and divide by 9. That's how many grams of fat you need to eat. This is every day.

Carbs first. Here is a list of healthy carb-heavy foods: Bran, wheatgerm, barley, maize, buckwheat, cornmeal, oatmeal, brown rice, yam, wholemeal bread. There's more, but these are the best. All these foods are cheap, and you don't need to be a fucking sous chef to boil up some brown rice.

Protein sources are easier: Lean chicken, lean turkey, lean pork cuts, extra-lean beef (extra lean). Protein shakes. All fish has protein. This is not so cheap, but it's still easy to prepare.

Healthy fat sources are olive oil, flaxseed oil, and omega 3 oils. Omega 3 oils are found in most fish. If you want fish, but no fat, stick with tuna.

Pick foods from these lists that you like.

3) Now go to www.calorieking.com and look up the foods and write down the calories, carbs, protein, and fat in each. Now do the math. Let's say your carb & protein numbers were 200g each, and your fat was 40g. Juggle the quantities of the foods that you like so that you consume the right number of carbs, protein, and fat each day. Now divide that quantity up into 6 meals. You don't need the exact same number of carbs, protein, and fat in each meal. Just make sure it tallies up over the course of a day. I'll capitalize this because it's important: IT'S OKAY TO BE A FEW GRAMS/CALORIES OUT.

Why six meals? Your body responds a shitload better to 6 meals a day than 3. It speeds your metabolism.

4) Now get your ass down the gym 4 times a week. Lift weights. Chest & abs on Monday, back & traps on Wednesday, legs on Friday, Arms & shoulders on saturday. After your weights, spend 20 minutes on a cross trainer at moderate intensity. Once you get good at that, do interval training. 1 minute very fast, 1 minute slow for 15 minutes. Repeat until thin. You need willpower? A blind guy just climbed Everest. There's your fucking willpower.

Standard disclaimers apply: Consult your doctor before starting any new diet/fitness program. Don't fuck about with the weights until you know what you're doing. Some may get results faster than others. Expect to wait 8-12 weeks for delivery of same. Overnight weight loss diets are all horseshit. This is slower, but it's stable, and it'll lose you an average of 1lb per week, and if you work it like it's written it'll be 1lb of fat per week, not muscle.
There. A billion dollar a year industry summarized in less than one page. Easy, really, because 99% of that industry is steaming horseshit that nobody ever needed to hear. Now nobody has any excuse, and you never need to read any more bullshit diet columns in your hateful fashion and style magazines which never tell you what you really need to know and only exist to perpetuate false standards of beauty no human could ever live up to in an attempt to guilt you into buying SHIT you don't NEED. There are other methods, but this one works. There are undoubtedly flaws in this method. Doesn't matter. There are flaws in every method, and this one's good enough. Results may vary, expect to wait 8-12 weeks for delivery. 1lb per week, and if you work it like it's written it'll be 1lb of fat per week, not muscle. It's not easy, but it's not that hard either. Try it.

Last edited by Cort; 04-08-2011 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:27 PM
Cyningablod Cyningablod is offline
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Wow, that quote is awfully long and complicated.

How about this:

Burn more calories than you eat.

There. Six words, eight syllables.

  #3  
Old 04-08-2011, 05:30 PM
PlainJain PlainJain is offline
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Wow, I don't think this has ever been addressed here! Congrats.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:30 PM
jjimm jjimm is offline
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Cyningablod, good try, but let me take over:

Eat less, move more.

Four. Any more takers?
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:31 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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Yeah, I did end up going on a bit. On the other hand, it is useful if you eat 6 meals a day, and the 40-40-20 macronutrient split is good for fat loss a well as maintaining muscle mass. It may seem complicated, but all that calculating and portion measuring will take probably around about 3 hours. Then you'll have a diet you can follow for the next 3 months and lose a stone of flab.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:35 PM
Dr. Drake Dr. Drake is offline
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Originally Posted by jjimm View Post
Cyningablod, good try, but let me take over:

Eat less, move more.

Four. Any more takers?
Diet, exercise. That's two.
  #7  
Old 04-08-2011, 05:36 PM
Spice Weasel Spice Weasel is offline
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Originally Posted by jjimm View Post
Cyningablod, good try, but let me take over:

Eat less, move more.

Four. Any more takers?
Drop the cupcake!

On preview: *shakes fist at Dr. Drake*

Last edited by Spice Weasel; 04-08-2011 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:38 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. Drake View Post
Diet, exercise. That's two.
"Moderation"

In all seriousness, it's easy to boil everything down to "Eat less & exercise more" but that doesn't really mean anything. Most people vastly overestimate the number of calories they burn and vastly underestimate the number of calories they eat. To make sure they're eating less than they burn, they first have to work out how much they burn. Then they have to work out how many calories are in the foods they eat and keep a running tally. That's an awful lot of work. Best to just work out something you can eat every day that keeps you on target and stick with it. While you're at it, though, try going for the 40-40-20 carb/protein/fat split. It'll help you stay full, and ensure that your body has enough protein to minimize muscle loss. Like I say, takes 3 hours, lasts 3 months.

Last edited by Cort; 04-08-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:39 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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*deleted*

Last edited by Cort; 04-08-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:40 PM
Spice Weasel Spice Weasel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cort View Post
In all seriousness, it's easy to boil everything down to "Eat less & exercise more" but that doesn't really mean anything. Most people vastly overestimate the number of calories they burn and vastly underestimate the number of calories they eat. To make sure they're eating less than they burn, they first have to work out how much they burn. Then they have to work out how many calories are in the foods they eat and keep a running tally. That's an awful lot of work. Best to just work out something you can eat every day that keeps you on target and stick with it. While you're at it, though, try going for the 40-40-20 carb/protein/fat split. It'll help you stay full, and ensure that your body has enough protein to minimize muscle loss. Like I say, takes 3 hours, lasts 3 months.
How long have you maintained your loss? Just curious, cuz like, the success rate of weight loss maintenance is currently something like 5%. If you're one of the lucky few, we have to know how you did it (other than the obvious.) Because in my experience, weight loss is 5% math and 95% cognitive restructuring.

You can handle the math pretty easily with www.sparkpeople.com though. They have a nifty little calorie tracker and will even calculate your calorie range and it takes all of 3 minutes a day to keep track of that stuff.

Last edited by Spice Weasel; 04-08-2011 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:49 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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Originally Posted by olivesmarch4th
How long have you maintained your loss? Just curious, cuz like, the success rate of weight loss maintenance is currently something like 5%. If you're one of the lucky few, we have to know how you did it (other than the obvious.) Because in my experience, weight loss is 5% math and 95% cognitive restructuring.
Couple of months. It's still an ongoing project. I want to get down to 8%bf and then start a slow bulk, trying to put on as much muscle as possible while keeping my bf below 12-14%. The important thing, as I see it, is that if I do slip up, I know how to get back on track right quick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olivesmarch4th
You can handle the math pretty easily with www.sparkpeople.com though. They have a nifty little calorie tracker and will even calculate your calorie range and it takes all of 3 minutes a day to keep track of that stuff.
Very cool. I like that. Thanks
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:50 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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Originally Posted by PlainJain View Post
Wow, I don't think this has ever been addressed here! Congrats.
I know, I know. I'm sorry. But it was all day today. I just had to vent.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:51 PM
jjimm jjimm is offline
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Can't answer for Cort, but I'm currently about 5-10lbs overweight (10 lbs if I just want to lose weight, 5 lbs if I want to lose weight and replace flab with muscle).

However, I used to be about 40lbs overweight. I lost most of the 40lbs by low-carbing in one single 3-month push, but have kept most of it off for the last 8 years by eating the same as I did when I got fat, but by being more active.

Not active like Xtreeeeem sportz, but active like cycling around the place and walking a bit and stuff, on a daily basis. It's not that difficult.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:06 PM
DSeid DSeid is offline
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*deleted*
Ah if only that was done with the first post.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:15 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSeid
Ah if only that was done with the first post.
Goodness, I'm sorry. I forgot myself. Let me try again:

"I hate the hypocritical Democrat/Republican Obamabotic/Tea-bagging "FAUX" News/NYT pundits who oppose gay rights/tax cuts and love/hate guns and use "your" when they mean "you're" or vice versa while saying something crazy about animal rights and overusing SDMB memes from 2006"

Yes, it's another fat thread in the pit. Get over it. And if you can't, console yourself with the knowledge that, post for post, this one has more solid info about weight loss than all the rest put together.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:19 PM
Lord Ashtar Lord Ashtar is offline
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INB4 "But I have a metabolic disorder!"
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:24 PM
Frank Frank is offline
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Wow, I don't think this has ever been addressed here! Congrats.
The first place my eyes went to, even before the first letter in the OP, was the "Join Date:". I was mildly surprised.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:26 PM
Giraffe Giraffe is offline
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It's about time someone on the Internet stepped up and told fat people to lose some weight. Thank you, Cort, for finally breaking the silence. You are a hero to us all.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:30 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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Like I said, venting.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:33 PM
bucketybuck bucketybuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cort View Post
Yeah, I did end up going on a bit. On the other hand, it is useful if you eat 6 meals a day, and the 40-40-20 macronutrient split is good for fat loss a well as maintaining muscle mass. It may seem complicated, but all that calculating and portion measuring will take probably around about 3 hours. Then you'll have a diet you can follow for the next 3 months and lose a stone of flab.
You seem informed on the subject, but I need to ask, have you read Gary Taubes seminal work "Good Calories, Bad Calories"? Because if you havent then I really cant take you seriously.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:33 PM
The Surb The Surb is offline
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Bullshit. There has to be an easier way. Isn't there a pill I could take?

I am thinking of starting The Crystal Meth diet. The only downside I can see is losing my teeth. Hell, look at Eddie Van Halen, He is one skinny mofo. Charlie's not a lard-ass either.
  #22  
Old 04-08-2011, 06:35 PM
Miller Miller is online now
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"Moderation"
Bullshit. I've been moderating for over a year now, and I'm still fat.
  #23  
Old 04-08-2011, 06:35 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucketybuck
You seem informed on the subject, but I need to ask, have you read Gary Taubes seminal work "Good Calories, Bad Calories"? Because if you havent then I really cant take you seriously.
Nope, never heard of it. Although, hang on...is that the one which is all about how Taubes is a rennaissance man who is unappreciated in his own time? Anyway, while my advice is general and not 100% perfect, it's good enough to get the job done and, excluding those 0.001% of obese people who really do have a glandular disorder, it'll work for anyone. This remains true regardless of how many people take me seriously

Last edited by Cort; 04-08-2011 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:36 PM
Morgenstern Morgenstern is offline
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liposuction.

I did it in one word, I win. Where's my cake?
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:37 PM
The Surb The Surb is offline
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Nope, never heard of it. And while my advice is general and not 100% perfect, it's good enough to get the job done and, excluding those 0.001% of obese people who really do have a glandular disorder, it'll work for anyone. This remains true regardless of how many people take me seriously.
And the same is true for my Crystal Meth Diet. I forgot to mention one other side effect, prison. But other than that minor detail, it's golden.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:40 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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Bullshit. I've been moderating for over a year now, and I'm still fat.
But have you been moderating in moderation?
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:42 PM
Dr. Drake Dr. Drake is offline
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It's about time someone on the Internet stepped up and told fat people to lose some weight. Thank you, Cort, for finally breaking the silence. You are a hero to us all.
I don't think he told them to stop being fat. He told them to stop whining about being fat. It's not a rant about fat people, it's about a particular set of co-dependent fat people who rhetorically make false claims at work as part of a greater narrative strategy to reinforce group identity as people whose fatness is inevitable despite their valiant efforts to the contrary.

It's no different from people whose office culture is complaining about being overworked while actually just being inefficient and / or lazy.

Anyway, I should go—I've got a million things to do, and I just never seem to have enough energy to get it all done, never mind the time. *waddles off to search messy desk for a doughnut*
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:55 PM
DSeid DSeid is offline
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Goodness, I'm sorry. I forgot myself. Let me try again:

"I hate the hypocritical Democrat/Republican Obamabotic/Tea-bagging "FAUX" News/NYT pundits who oppose gay rights/tax cuts and love/hate guns and use "your" when they mean "you're" or vice versa while saying something crazy about animal rights and overusing SDMB memes from 2006"

Yes, it's another fat thread in the pit. Get over it. And if you can't, console yourself with the knowledge that, post for post, this one has more solid info about weight loss than all the rest put together.
Another lame and ignorant self satisfied whine ... oh excuse me ... "vent".

Your pleasant quick with a smile and overweight female coworkers (and one who is ... "well, not fat as such, but still pretty ashamed" ) feel comfortable enough around you to vent about how frustrated they have gotten trying lose weight and discuss the latest misinformation they've read in whilst in your presence. And you have lost a stone or so ... for now anyway ... so you are "an expert" and it drives you nuts.

Yeah, get over it.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:03 PM
An Gadaí An Gadaí is offline
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Cort is going on the list of people I intend to eat.
  #30  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:05 PM
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Gotta say, I think Cort has met some of my co-workers. I'm 6'1", 175 lbs, and work a sedentary office job. All the office women make fun of my lunches, as I'll eat 4 fast-food burgers and fries, or most of a pizza, or eat my packed lunch then order with everyone else, etc.

"Oh, how can you eat so much! You are so skinny" they say. Look, it's calories in, calories out. I enjoy listening to podcasts and jogging. Each night I probably sprint/run for about an hour straight. If I didn't eat that much, I'd probably weigh around 145 or less. In the winter months when I stop jogging, I stop eating so much. Heck, sometimes on weekends I'll just be lazy and only eat one meal a day. It's really not that hard. But getting them to understand this, fuck it's like yelling at wallpaper (not effective).

Last edited by Captain_C; 04-08-2011 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:10 PM
billfish678 billfish678 is offline
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I'm just glad it looks like April will not be yet another rape month.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:11 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Stop whining about fat people whining!
  #33  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:16 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSeid
Another lame and ignorant self satisfied whine ... oh excuse me ... "vent".

Your pleasant quick with a smile and overweight female coworkers (and one who is ... "well, not fat as such, but still pretty ashamed" ) feel comfortable enough around you to vent about how frustrated they have gotten trying lose weight and discuss the latest misinformation they've read in whilst in your presence. And you have lost a stone or so ... for now anyway ... so you are "an expert" and it drives you nuts.

Yeah, get over it.
Oh, fuck off. Everything you know about these people, you know through me. You have absolutely no idea whether they're choosing to confide in me, or whether they just don't care how tedious and repetitive they're being. Frankly, given how often they talk about it, I can only conclude that their need for validation massively outweighs any concern they might have for the effect this endless fucking pity party has on me. And by the way, they're not "discussing" the latest misinformation, they're propagating it. They don't give the slightest indication that they've made any effort to critically evaluate the garbage that they "discuss". They're nice people, genuinely, but this is the one thing they do which really winds me up.

As to your , "ashamed" is a perfectly valid descriptor of the specific co-worker you referenced. You know how I know this? Because today she said "I look in the mirror and I think 'Oh, it's such a shame how I've let myself go.'" This is a mere variation on a theme she trots out whenever the subject of weight loss comes up, which, as I hope I've made clear by now, is very, very often!

And yes, I am an expert in weight loss. Even though I've only lost 20lbs. Know why? Because it's really fucking simple stuff! I couldn't pass an exam, but I know enough to do the one thing that 99.999% of people who learn about nutrition set out to do: Lose fat. You've read my OP. Now you're an expert, too. Congratulations. Have a rice cake. Believe it or not, the method I used to lose 20lbs can be equally applied to anyone trying to lose any amount of weight at all. Unless you're one of those very few unfortunate people who actually has got a glandular problem, this stuff simply cannot fail to work. Get your BMR. Select the appropriate multiplier from the list. Take off 500. Eat 6 times a day, 40% carbs, 40% protein, 20% fat. Exercise 4 times a week, weights before cardio. That's it! Took me 3 hours to do all that. And I spent twice as long TODAY listening to a bunch of dangerously obese people claiming that their situations were impossible. Well I'm sorry, it wound me up.

Last edited by Cort; 04-08-2011 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:18 PM
fachverwirrt fachverwirrt is offline
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So, can I still whine about other things, or are fat people hereby proscribed from whining at all?
  #35  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:28 PM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is online now
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Another lame and ignorant self satisfied whine ... oh excuse me ... "vent".

Your pleasant quick with a smile and overweight female coworkers (and one who is ... "well, not fat as such, but still pretty ashamed" ) feel comfortable enough around you to vent about how frustrated they have gotten trying lose weight and discuss the latest misinformation they've read in whilst in your presence. And you have lost a stone or so ... for now anyway ... so you are "an expert" and it drives you nuts.

Yeah, get over it.
You sound fat.
  #36  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:45 PM
Frank Frank is offline
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So, can I still whine about other things, or are fat people hereby proscribed from whining at all?
You are allowed to whine about the Baltimore Orioles no longer being undefeated in the 2011 season, the non-existence of a TV station in St. Louis that carries all the Orioles games, and the failure of the Orioles to keep Eddie Murray around for his entire career.

Oh, and the distressing rarity of Stompin' Tom Connors early albums.

That's about it, really. Watch yourself.
  #37  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:47 PM
Gestalt Gestalt is offline
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This is something I have never, ever understood . . .
500 cal deficit/day = 3500 cal deficit/week
1 lb of fat = 3500 cals
Ergo eating 500 cals less a week should result in one pound of fat loss per week.

However, there are a lot of assumptions in this logic train that seem to go unquestioned on the boards.
1) 3500 cals = 1 lb of fat. 1 lb of what kind of fat? Did they burn 1 lb of adipose tissue to get that? Subq fat? visceral fat? I'm almost certain that they burned dietary fat of some kind (whether PUFA or MUFA or saturated or trans) which does not correlate exactly to human subcutaneous fat
2) The numbers that are printed on calorie labels are, I assume, the numbers taken by burning the items in a bomb calorimeter (let me know if I'm wrong). If so, why are we assuming that the human body extracts the full energy from everything we eat?
3) Why are we assuming that the body does not adjust its calorie expenditure accordingly when you eat 500 cals less a day (which for many people is a full third of their daily energy intake)?

Also, I know you said only .001% of people have "glandular" disorders but I don't think it's very controversial that hormones have a substantial effect on energy expenditure. The following is a short list of hormonal conditions that will cause fat change even if exercise and energy intake are kept constant:

1) Cushings (fat gain) and its sister Addison's (fat loss)
2) Diabetes type I and II (fat loss)
3) Pregnancy (fat gain usually)

Also, as much of an expert you think you are, the science of nutrition and metabolism is actually very convoluted. For example, many people lose weight on a diet high in saturated fats, which are not included on your list of "ok" foods, while many people gain weight eating lots of whole grains, which are included on your list of good foods.

Also, for whoever called DSeid "fat" above, I'm pretty sure he's a medical professional, and I want to say he's an MD, which might explain why he takes issue with overly simplistic attitudes to weight loss, as do I.

Last edited by Gestalt; 04-08-2011 at 07:48 PM.
  #38  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:56 PM
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I came in here to get in on a vent about how incredibly boring it is to listen to people go on and on and on about dieting and weight and dieting and food and dieting ....

And I found about thiry posts about dieting and losing weight.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:58 PM
jsgoddess jsgoddess is online now
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Bullshit. I've been moderating for over a year now, and I'm still fat.
Despite the presence of "mode" in the word, it doesn't mean that you have all dishes with a scoop of ice cream.
  #40  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:01 PM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is online now
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Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
Also, for whoever called DSeid "fat" above, I'm pretty sure he's a medical professional, and I want to say he's an MD, which might explain why he takes issue with overly simplistic attitudes to weight loss, as do I.
Doctors can fat and/or douchebags.
  #41  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:05 PM
jsgoddess jsgoddess is online now
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Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong View Post
Doctors can fat and/or douchebags.
You accidentally the whole word!
  #42  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:16 PM
What Exit? What Exit? is online now
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Another lame and ignorant self satisfied whine ... oh excuse me ... "vent".

Your pleasant quick with a smile and overweight female coworkers (and one who is ... "well, not fat as such, but still pretty ashamed" ) feel comfortable enough around you to vent about how frustrated they have gotten trying lose weight and discuss the latest misinformation they've read in whilst in your presence. And you have lost a stone or so ... for now anyway ... so you are "an expert" and it drives you nuts.

Yeah, get over it.
Is he wrong or are you just bitter? Fat people are fat as they don't exercise enough while eating too much. I know it and I am a fat person. Why are you offended by the simple truth. Almost no one has an actual medical condition that makes them fat. We fat people are not motivated enough to do what we need to do and most of us are honest enough to know it.

I can see being frustrated by people that bitch they can't loose wait and try for arcane fantasy solutions. Being fat is like most problems, step 1, admit why you are fat. Step 2 is the tougher one, doing something about it. Step 3 is the toughest, keeping it off.

Last edited by What Exit?; 04-08-2011 at 08:21 PM.
  #43  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:19 PM
Cort Cort is offline
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Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
This is something I have never, ever understood . . .
500 cal deficit/day = 3500 cal deficit/week
1 lb of fat = 3500 cals
Ergo eating 500 cals less a week should result in one pound of fat loss per week.

However, there are a lot of assumptions in this logic train that seem to go unquestioned on the boards.
1) 3500 cals = 1 lb of fat. 1 lb of what kind of fat? Did they burn 1 lb of adipose tissue to get that? Subq fat? visceral fat? I'm almost certain that they burned dietary fat of some kind (whether PUFA or MUFA or saturated or trans) which does not correlate exactly to human subcutaneous fat
But to what extent does that really matter in the long run? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely interested. If you're fat, and you want to lose fat, and you create a 500 calorie deficit and begin losing 1lb per week, at what point should the precise make-up of the fat you're losing become a concern worth holding?

Quote:
2) The numbers that are printed on calorie labels are, I assume, the numbers taken by burning the items in a bomb calorimeter (let me know if I'm wrong). If so, why are we assuming that the human body extracts the full energy from everything we eat?
What choice do we have?

Quote:
3) Why are we assuming that the body does not adjust its calorie expenditure accordingly when you eat 500 cals less a day (which for many people is a full third of their daily energy intake)?
Quote:
Also, I know you said only .001% of people have "glandular" disorders but I don't think it's very controversial that hormones have a substantial effect on energy expenditure. The following is a short list of hormonal conditions that will cause fat change even if exercise and energy intake are kept constant:

1) Cushings (fat gain) and its sister Addison's (fat loss)
2) Diabetes type I and II (fat loss)
3) Pregnancy (fat gain usually)
All very true. The .001% was just a number I made up to communicate the point that, as a percentage of overweight people, those with Cushings and hypothyroidism and suchlike are very much in a minority. I did also say that everyone should consult a doctor before beginning any new diet and fitness program.

Quote:
Also, as much of an expert you think you are, the science of nutrition and metabolism is actually very convoluted. For example, many people lose weight on a diet high in saturated fats, which are not included on your list of "ok" foods, while many people gain weight eating lots of whole grains, which are included on your list of good foods.
I absolutely agree. However, one of my points is that if you're just interested in getting a reliable way to lose fat, you can reach your goals witout ever learning more than the basics. As I see it, one of the biggest hurdles fat people face in devising a plan to lose weight is information overload. Every glossy magazine has weekly or monthly columns stuffed full of fresh new tips for fat loss and muscle building. These articles all have one thing in common: They never tell you what you really need to know. They just throw factoids at you without putting them into any kind of context. It's too much for one person to combine into anything like a coherent plan. My purpose was to basically say "Right. You wanna lose weight? Here's a way. There are others, but this one works. You wanna look elsewhere, go ahead, but as far as I'm concerned the rest is just so much fluff." I stand by this, simplistic though it may be. For the vast majority of overweight people, the plan I laid out in my OP will work.
  #44  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:30 PM
Living Well Is Best Revenge Living Well Is Best Revenge is offline
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Stoid and Cort really need to meet.....
  #45  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:49 PM
jsgoddess jsgoddess is online now
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Originally Posted by Living Well Is Best Revenge View Post
Stoid and Cort really need to meet.....
Maybe the new initiation will be throwing newbies into a room with the two of them, so be careful what you wish for!
  #46  
Old 04-08-2011, 09:08 PM
Living Well Is Best Revenge Living Well Is Best Revenge is offline
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Ok never mind. :slinks away:
  #47  
Old 04-08-2011, 09:11 PM
CheeseDonkey CheeseDonkey is offline
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Originally Posted by jjimm View Post
Cyningablod, good try, but let me take over:

Eat less, move more.

Four. Any more takers?
One word:

Anorexia.
  #48  
Old 04-08-2011, 09:16 PM
fachverwirrt fachverwirrt is offline
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One word, one syllable:

Death.
  #49  
Old 04-08-2011, 09:37 PM
DSeid DSeid is offline
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Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
Is he wrong or are you just bitter? Fat people are fat as they don't exercise enough while eating too much. I know it and I am a fat person. Why are you offended by the simple truth. Almost no one has an actual medical condition that makes them fat. We fat people are not motivated enough to do what we need to do and most of us are honest enough to know it.

I can see being frustrated by people that bitch they can't loose wait and try for arcane fantasy solutions. Being fat is like most problems, step 1, admit why you are fat. Step 2 is the tougher one, doing something about it. Step 3 is the toughest, keeping it off.
No, I am not bitter, not offended, and not fat. Short, yes. Bald, yes. Annoyed, yes. But not fat. Do triathlons and have spent a fair amount of my professional energy (yes physician - peds to be specific) working on developing and implementing our group's program to treat and prevent pediatric obesity.

After how many zillion posts in which I have provided links to the real state of the art science of obesity research today (like this one) I personally am tired out but still am annoyed by all these self proclaimed "experts" who believe that because they have lost a bit on a diet, or because they are not fat, that the answer to obesity is really easy. That the complex and very difficult issue of obesity is a simple matter.

Our current "expert" has lost some weight. That is great and I am happy for him. But as you accurately point out, losing some weight, even a significant amount of weight, may not be easy but it is not the tough part. The tougher part, the part less than one in ten achieve even in the best medically supervised programs, is keeping it off. Once a person is obese an individual's body has many physiological mechanisms that work to maintain that weight. (Really, check out some of that linked post's links.) Some succeed and I hope that our current arrogant ignorant doofus is one of them, but those that do, do because they have tremendous support and recognize how much hard work it is to change their lifestyles and their personal environments and to keep them changed in a society very different than the environment of our evolutionary history, a world in which high calorie density and very appealing food is always widely available and in which activity is not something required in ordered to survive (as opposed to the world in which a famine was always potentially around the next corner, food often scarce and of lower calorie density and lots of unavoidable activity was part of daily living as matter of course and of survival). As Chief Pendant once put it, the modern world has invented "Plenty and Lackamotion" and the genes that kept people alive in times of Famine and Constant Motion now work against many of us to significant degrees.

The predisposition to obesity in an environment of Plenty and Lackamotion is highly genetic; genetics are not destiny but they do make it tough. People are not fat because they are weak willed or because they are refusing to accept the "wisdom" of the Corts in the world. And as someone whose job includes attempting to prevent it from occurring, and treating it and its complications once it is in the process of occurring, as someone who knows enough to know both how difficult that is and that I do not understand all of the physiology involved and who knows that the best experts (much more knowledgable minds than mine) in the world have no great answers yet for those who are already seriously obese (short of bariatric surgery) I find these "experts" to be ... annoying.
  #50  
Old 04-08-2011, 09:40 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post
The first place my eyes went to, even before the first letter in the OP, was the "Join Date:". I was mildly surprised.
Not mine. I recognized the user name.

But I did look for the post date, and "BANNED," under the name, just to see if this was a zombie.
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