Might I suggest you guys quit trying to elicit substance from the poster? Looks like a lost cause.
That’ll earn you a warning, Waymore. Do not insult other posters, please.
From here.
So 3.5 million to one. Over a fifteen year period.
Can you cite all the attacks by Syrian refugees?
Forgot link.
:smack:
Ahem! The results of this election have given birth to a whole new approach in dealing with individuals on the right. In the past, “liberals” (I don’t think that word is anything more anymore than an epithet hurled by the uneducated against the educated, but let’s go with it for now) have been smug, arrogant, and condescending.
NO MORE! Now is the time to listen, empathize. To what, with what, you might ask? That only exposes your ignorance. The lack of content is not a bug, it is a feature. Be prepared to get whacked up side the head with the most startling Zen koan kind of thing, 2016 style. You don’t get it yet, but with practice, patience and perseverance, you will.
Silence Is The Language Of The Gods, yanno. Have some respect.
What I notice is that those of us who responded to your OP and didn’t get into an argument about politics don’t seem to be getting any responses.
You still have not explained what is so insulting about being told that uneducated whites voted for Trump. You haven’t explained why you don’t fit that demographic. you haven’t explained why you find the term offensive.
If you want us to stop insulting you, you have to tell us what the actual insult is.
I could easily see how “uneducated whites” could be seen as a dog whistle for
“You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know… morons.”
Dog whistles are subtle, we are a little more blatant when pushing this meme.
It is true that whites without a college degree are why Trump is president though. That is why the northern Midwest turned red.
However education only affects white voting. Non whites are pretty much one party no matter their class and education.
It was not only uneducated white voters, but that is what put Trump over the edge, that was the biggest surge for him by far.
Hillary did under perform among both college white women and men, she needed to do better and she did not.
For a more thorough analysis of this listen to this podcast:
The latest with Ron Brownstein goes into the numbers.
I still don’t have a complete picture, but basically Trump turned extracted every last drop out of white people, at the same time support from democratic constituencies faltered, in part due to the Candidacy of Hillary Clinton that many thought was flawed and corrupt.
I realized long ago that people make their decisions first, then reason backwards to get their reasons. This was the biggest firewall of the educated Trump voter, but scandals gave them plausible rationales to use the smoke there to create enough Doubt about her to justify ignoring far more potential issues with Trump.
I think you fooled yourself, sir. I think Trump conned conservatives into thinking he was one of them, and by talking up areas like immigration and race with latinos and religion with muslims and the perceived threats, he magnified the tendency for white people, like you, to get an emotional response to feel like they were under siege, and tilt them over the edge and vote conservative.
That is what the data shows happens when threats about cultural losses rise, they shift more conservative.
Congratulations. Your outsized fears and slanders about liberals won the day, for today. This is still not a winning coalition going forward for the presidency, Trump squeezed about as much blood out of a dying turnip as he could have, but that same reality will likely give him a chance again in 2020, when white people, like you or people that voted like you, feel even more under siege and need to push back to … what was the phrase?
“take your country back”
Take it back from who? President Blackenstein? Minorities? Immigrants? Illegals? IT did not matter that illegal immigration was down, it was an ever present threat on talk radio and alt right youtuber stations, so it was in the minds of many white conservative and just pure nationalist voters. The rust belt issues are real, but there again, they voted in a party that is less likely to maintain healthcare expansions. Trump actually might try to push back on this because this is an area where I am certain he agrees with liberals, he has already signaled he wants to keep the ban on being able toe refuse coverage for preexisting conditions. Well guess what guys, you keep that you need either some form of mandate or some other form of universal healthcare coverage. Being able to buy across state lines is not going to cut it, and if it does, the likely care limits will be so draconian people will still go bankrupt over choosing to DIE.
This is the policy bankruptcy of the republican party. You deserve all the chaos and ash of humanity and suffering that will be wrought with this fool choice. But I do not, I don’t want the non fools to suffer as well and unfortunately we are in the same boat with the people who are knifing the life raft.
America is still a manufacturing power, but we produce more with fewer people with automation. How is trade policy going to turn that back? You got conned, there are other policies that have a better chance to help people than a trade war with other nations.
I know there are many types of Trump voters, but I think all of them are fools, educated or not. No one ever said having a degree made someone intelligent or wise.
For some, the actual insult is disagreeing with them.
In this particular poster’s case, it appears that he is insulted by anyone typing any words whatsoever in reply to his assertions.
I am getting so frustrated here I’m about to cry. *I am begging you. *From the bottom of my heart. Please explain yourself as youwiththeface requested. I really, really, really want to understand this calculated risk. I want to know why half the population of this country seems okay with a sexual predator. I am terrified of the behavior that Trump’s behavior seems to be endorsing.
Alas, Dogzilla, the OP seems to have checked out of this thread several days ago, and I suspect we’re not going to hear what more he might have to say.
Cite?
Look, I hate Trump. I’m scared to death of his administration and what it will bring. But statements like this are EXACTLY why Hillary lost.
Fact: Hillary used a private email server for government emails. Then when the government asked for the server she gave up only those things she wanted them to see.
Why do you think she did that? Because she thought she could keep it more secure than the government? Because she felt it was somehow in the peoples’ best interest that she have private control over it? Sure, scream about Collin Powell, but he isn’t running for office.
Fact: After leaving the White House, Hillary moved to the state she always talked about wanting to be a part of, to be living in. And, by gum, that state just happened to have a ripe-for-the-picking Senate seat opening. Huh. Imagine the luck.
Fact: Hillary voted for the Iraq war. It was a popular thing to do. She had access to all the information necessary to see what a sham that was, but went with what would be popular. NOW, when it is popular to be against it, she is against it.
Now, if you want to point out all the FACTS that make Donald Trump a lying, cheating con man, feel free. Facts, please, not just speculation. Actual, demonstrable facts.
I’m not a Trump supporter and never have been. But I’m tired of hearing the factually baseless bashing which has led to him now being President elect.
Trump university and his charity are under investigation. Those aren’t facts that he is a con man.
I think the problem you are having with his lack of response, is that you are expecting him to offer concrete reasons where non ever existed. This is much more about internal perceptions and hunches that are later translated into arguments of varying degrees of coherence. With Trump this process is far more difficult, Hillary is Corrupt? Then what the hell is Trump with all the shady surroundings of Trump University, and stiffing contractors? Hillary and democrats are ignoring the white working class? Not caring about trade issues? What do we do with Trump outsourcing countless business relationships and purchases overseas? Rational counters are nigh impossible, so what are Trump supporters to do? Either come up with insane rationales about the malevolence of Hillary, become single issue voters like being tougher in illegal immigrants and legal immigrants alike, better supreme court pics, or just go off their internal hunches and feelings that they cannot properly articulate because there was never a rational basis of support to begin with.
How would you make an argument, if it was true, that you felt uncomfortable with increasing waves of hispanic immigrants? How would you translate your potential irritation seeing brown skinned people and asians in more positions of power and influence while you were still stuck with more economic constraints?
I’m not saying that was the OP, but you can imagine these kinds of sentiments going through peoples heads. Not all of them are dumb enough to let it all fly out like we’ve seen on some youtube/facebook captures.
Correct
Incorrect. This is your opinion.
Yes, she did move to New York.
And it’s your OPINION that moving to become a senator was a TERRIBLE thing.
Yes, she did vote for this at the request of a Republican president, along with many other Republican senators.
It’s your OPINION that she did this only because it was popular. And no, it is clear that few people had access to all the information necessary, and in fact, much of the information given was simply made up crappola. (Yellowcake, weapons of mass destruction etc.)
It would behoove you to discern the difference between FACT and OPINION, as you have freely mixed the two of these up in your examples.
She did it because she did not want her emails to be accessible to prying eyes that could use them against her politically. She is cautious and worried about her private communications to a fault, but the private server ending up doing more harm than good. Emails still leaked, mostly showing that the people working for her came across mostly well, but the potential of deleted emails that will never see the light of day allow the demagogues of this world to fill the blanks with whatever horrors they can think up, adding fuel to the right wing flames that she is an evil actor in this world. It’s not true, but truth does not matter, they see a void and fill it with their own hatred. Belief becomes reality.
For the record, everyone bitching about her email communications, since when did it become the modern standard that nothing is allowed to be said in confidence? Is all communication made by a public official supposed to be part of a public record? George Washington destroyed many of his letters, was he an incalculably corrupt politician that warrants being chastised for hiding his true beliefs and communications and ideas and did not pull a John Adams and preserve far more letters for posterity?
This was a SHIT complaint, and was always a shit standard. Normalizing this standard is not a good for the nation. And it was not a real issue, it said nothing about policy and what Clinton wanted to do, the most you could say is that it highlighted an attribute of Clinton where she was too cloistered and worried about her “secrets” getting out and blown out of proportions. Turns out she was right about it, the most insignificant nothings of email scandal were blown up to high heavens.
She had ambitions for the white house and wanted to use her connections in politics and Bill Clinton as a spring board. I’m sorry, what is the problem here? You don’t like dynasties, fine, but I expect the SAME vitriole shitting on Any relatives of Kennedy that ever ran for office, and any Bushes. John Quincy Adams? Eff him. Oh and he used his political fame to edge his way into congress later too? That jerk. WHAT an opportunist, using his last days to fight against slavery as an abolitionist. Oh but right, he used his connections in politics to get ahead. SO WHAT. There are other issues to be worried about, THIS is not one of them.
I don’t know if Hillary was genuinely convinced over the Iraq war being justifiable, but a LOT of democrats voted for it, and a LOT of them did it for political reasons. She was against gay marriage before she was for it, and btw, so was Obama, against gay marriage before he was for it. Question. Do you think Obama was EVER Really against gay marriage? Did he LIE when he said he thought it should be between a man and a woman? I did, and did I give him shit for it? NO, because I’m not a child, I understand that people fudge the truth and lie in the service of a perceived greater good, like not dying on that hill that could be better fought later and sacrificing other goods that needed more pressing attention. Politicians and human beings do this all the time, the idea that people need to stop all of this is absurd. Lincoln did FAR worse when trying to get the 14th amendment passed, coercing congressmen to vote his way, you think everything was on the up and up? Do you care? When Jefferson went along with the Louisiana purchase it was not clear it was constitutional, do you care? You want a precious and PURE ideology where nothing is ever fudged? THAT is a dystopian way to think and feel, it ripped the guts out of humanity and judgement and is NOT something to be respected. It’s a FOOL way to live a life, and a fools expectations of other people.
I don’t believe Trump ever believed Obama was not a US citizen, I think he went along with the fiction that he was not to rile up a bunch of gullible rubes. He is a former Birther, but not because he believed, because he was conning the true believers into supporting him. This time he latched onto an issue with more legs, an aversion to illegal immigrants. Of course this was not enough for a personal purge of any illegals working for his properties, nor was his aversion to things being made in China enough to stop HIM from buying things there that could have been sourced in the US.
But oh right, he’s a “business man”
No, he’s a con man who suckered a lot of rubes. They deserve the scorn heaped upon them, even if I know it’s counter productive.
OP seems to be gone.
I don’t have the answer to your question. This election feels like it validated the worst of our nation, like a candidate can show the worst traits of humanity on every level (racism, misogyny, scapegoating the weak, obvious cons and scams, vengefulness, incompetence, bullying, authoritarianism, rampant criminality, sexual predation, xenophobia, disrespect for others, etc), and still have 61 million people think people like that are qualified to be president.
This election opened a chasm in the US that isn’t going to be fixed anytime soon. I predict politics, and especially how liberals view the right, has changed for the next 30 years. I know conservatives think liberals have been fighting with ‘the gloves off’, but we really haven’t. Conservatives are just projecting and many of their fears about us are paranoid fantasies of persecution. I think on some level, some deep level, this election let the left know what we are up against and I predict a much harder pushback in the coming years and decades than conservatives are used to.
I suspect you will never see it no matter what a Trump supporter might say.
I didn’t vote for Trump. Had I no other choice but to vote for either Clinton or Trump, I would have chosen Trump.
Not because I like him. I don’t. Not because I believe what he promises, I don’t. I don’t believe Clinton either.
So, the choice is between two liars. Not a good choice.
However, with Trump I believe I understand the way in which he lies. Note, this is a guess, but then when you are dealing with liars, everything is a guess.
Trump seems to have a pretty long history of bargaining by taking the furthest possible position from the person he is bargaining with. Say Trump wants to sell a house. He thinks it is worth 200,000. He asks 1.5 million. Not because it is worth that much but because it allows him to walk back to what he really wants for it. If you start the bargaining closer to what you want, you have less room to maneuver. Additionally, every once in a while someone will go way higher than what you want.
Based on the above, I think most of Trumps positions are starting positions and not really close to what he wants in the end.
On a side note, I think the way many are reacting to Trump is kinda funny. We all know politicians lie (Clinton and her Private vs. Public positions for example. A list of lies told by politicians in this country would take a really long time to compile). Yet everyone acts as though they are telling the truth. So Trump comes along and lies but lies bigger than anyone else and a reasonable portion of the public freak out apparently thinking that Trump is not playing the standard political game and lying.
I believe that Trump, so far anyway, has lived up to my expectations. For example, Trump campaigned on killing Obamacare*. Now he is talking about keeping parts of it. Trump promised to go after Clinton for the insanely stupid email thing**. That is being walked back.
I expect that to be the standard process from here on out. And on some of the more important things to me I suspect that Trump will walk back to something I think is reasonable.
With Clinton, the exact opposite is true. I cannot tell when she is lying, if a position she espouses actually matches her private position or if what is being said is done to placate the voters. Additionally, if Clinton pushed her private polices, I believe that I would disagree with those policies a great deal. Of course, the last is a guess.
So, the choice is someone who I know lies but I can spot the lies and someone who lies but does it well so I cannot spot the lies.
Slee
- I think Obamacare is absolutely flawed and doesn’t hit at the core of the health care costs that are the whole problem.
** Insanely stupid on Clintons part.
Clintons lies are inside the line of what I consider reasonable, Trumps lies are more insulting because they are so blatant it’s like he’s daring someone to contradict him. Like a guy being caught cheating on his significant other in the bed, and him looking at his gf and saying, I’m not cheating on you.
There is a threshold of ridiculousness that I expected people to not tolerate. I was wrong. That is part of my agitation towards Trump voters, they just did not care about anything Trump actually said.
Selena Zito is the one who I think is reported to have said that democrats took Trump literally but not seriously, while republicans looked at Trump seriously but not Literally. But of course a great many DID take him both seriously and literally on their pet issues, like jailing Hillary (I’ve heard the radio listeners calling into talk radio saying he better follow through).
I also HATE the aspect of Trump supporters that they were so willing to not feel that his dog whistling to racial grievance against hispanics and muslims was disqualifying. It seemed to ENHANCE his appeal with a particular group, and I shall not forgive them for that. This does not make me want such people helped, it makes me want to see them slide further into the ditch and not care. But there it is.
Regarding healthcare and the aca not being your cup of tea, that comes from both the left and the right, what exactly is it you would prefer? More of a universal healthcare system? Or the limitations of healthcare to catastrophic coverage like Ryan and co proposes? I think when most conservatives talk about healthcare reform there is ZERO desire to have any of the costs socialized, which is part of the problem, along with not having cost controls.
Actually, what Hillary voted for was to give Bush authorization to go to war with Iraq. This may not seem like an important distinction to you, but it is one if you consider the context: Bush asked for this authorization because he claimed that it was the best chance to prevent war by showing Saddam that we were serious enough that he would allow inspectors in. And, in fact, it worked: He did allow the inspectors in and the inspectors found essentially nothing and evidence that the U.S. intelligence was garbage (Inspectors Call U.S. Tips 'Garbage' - CBS News). Bush went to war anyway.
And, Hillary hasn’t lied about her vote, unlike Trump who has lied about what his expressed views were on the Iraq war before it started (PolitiFact | Trump repeats wrong claim that he opposed Iraq War).
As for the evidence of Trump’s lies, look here for example: PolitiFact | Donald Trump compared to Clinton: PolitiFact | Hillary Clinton
Here is one example of the sort of egregious lies that Trump was telling just a few days before the election: Trump Recalls President Obama/Protester Incident Incorrectly | Donald J. Trump tells a massive, whopping, flagrant, blatant, complete lie about the way President Obama handled one of his supporters | By NowThis ImpactFacebook The brazenness is just amazing.