18 yr old daughter changing for the worse? (Long)

Just a quick side note…although I still dont agree that the age difference is that big of a deal, Im going to assume (I know I shouldn’t, but from the OP’s posts Im going with this) that she has never had a boyfriend and even the idea of going on a date prior to now would have been shot down by you- regardless of age.

Don’t you think that maybe she wants to date this older guy because she knows you don’t approve? That maybe this is her first “rebellious” act?

The fact that you feel she is “too young” or “not ready” to have a license is absurd. People begin getting their licenses at 15- I understand if you felt that was too young, but by 18 she should have a license and possibly a car- as well as a social life which includes dating.

I understand you are trying to protect her, but all you are going to do is push her away. Im sure she has access to the internet- and sees everything else that she is not “allowed” to have and is plain old pissed off.

I have a feeling that the OP is as isolated as her daughter, cut off from interaction with peers. Otherwise the advice shared here wouldn’t be such a surprise. Fran_L3, we can tell you what life was like for us as children and parents.

I lived at home until I graduated high school, and had a curfew of midnight, later if I attended an out of town concert or prom. My parents were strict and had high expectations, but they were not overprotective. And still, I couldn’t wait to get away from home and live autonomously. I had my driver’s license and first job at 16, and my own car by 17. Just before I turned 18, I drove myself to a women’s clinic for an exam and oral contraceptives. Although I could have discussed this with my mother, I chose to do this secretly, because I wanted some privacy and the chance to make my own decisions and/or mistakes. The only reason I wasn’t sexually active before that was because each and every one of my honor roll friends had been sexually active since 15 or 16, all had pregnancy scares, one caught a nasty STD, and a few experimented heavily with drugs and multiple partners and suffered serious damage to their reputations. I was exposed to absolutely everything you fear, and my parents never had a clue my friends were so wild. Very, very wild. And we were the good kids, cheerleaders, athletes, and honor roll students. By 18 I was sexually active with a boyfriend I planned to marry, I was working full time, attending a local college part time and full time depending on my work schedule, driving a beat up used car in decent running condition, and I was actively looking for a house to rent or lease-to-own. I was living alone in a neighboring town before my 19th birthday.

I was allowed to date at 16, and everyone I ever dated was five years older than me, because that was the age of my older sister’s more interesting and more mature friends. Alcohol was hard to come by before I was 21 so I rarely drank, I experimented a little with weed but no harder drugs. I didn’t drive drunk. I didn’t get pregnant. I didn’t break any laws. I kept my bank account balanced, bills paid, I ate well, and had my teeth cleaned on schedule. I struggled occasionally, had no savings for unexpected expenses like car trouble or medical issues, and borrowed money from my parents. But I had privacy, the free time to do as I pleased, and no heavy expectations or rules to follow save my own.I couldn’t wait to move out and be on my own and make my own decisions, and my parents were cool, modern thinking and affectionate people. But having my own life was and is the normal progression for kids growing up in the modern western world. My peers were doing the same. The handful of kids I knew that were raised like yours rebelled at every opportunity, were jealous of the freedoms their peers had, and resented their parents intrusive micro-management even if the parents did so out of love.

Concern and love are not enough justification for infantilizing your child. You do so at the risk of driving her away and causing her to keep things from you, and also at the expense of her ability to handle responsibility and adversity. Your job as a parent is to raise her, help her grow and learn how to handle the responsibilities of adulthood; not to keep her stunted and at home for your own entertainment. She isn’t merely an extension of you, or a product you and your husband created; she is an independent human being and deserving of respect.

We all do things out of love for our children that are not actually best for our children, Frans. That’s just natural. I’m a Dad and I love my kid but I’m not perfect.

Your daughter is a grownup. You must understand that she needs to be allowed to become an adult, and she’s already running out of time. She’s much too old to have effectively no independence; she is far too old to have not been dating or not be spending a lot of time with her friends. These aren’t just “freedoms” or gifts;** these are absolutely necessary developmental steps for a teenager.** This is how she learns to be an adult with adult relationships.

This isn’t something we’re saying to make you feel bad, it’s something we’re saying to help you be a better parent and to help your daughter. She must learn to be an adult, and the only way for her to learn that is to learn, in some cases the hard way, how to manage on her own.

If I can offer one bit of specific advice; having her commute to school is a really, really terrible idea. Absolutely awful. She should go away to school and live on her own, even if in residence, because *how else is she going to learn to live on her own? *

Under normal circumstances, there’s nothing wrong with living at home and commuting to university. That’s what I did. It was a great financial move. Especially since I was keeping my summer job which was in my hometown. My parent gave me a lot of freedom, and as a result, I didn’t abuse it. Best of both worlds. In fact, by the time I graduated, I was far more independent that most of my friends who went away to college. Besides living w/o paying rent, I paid for everything else and was well in control of my finances. I bought and paid for my first car with cash and had enough saved to put a good down payment on my house a few years later. But like I said…my parents gave me a lot of freedom even while under their roof.

THIS! The OP sounds so much like my mother it isn’t funny – and here I’m sitting, nodding the entire time. The only difference was that she and her siblings were the “first generation” Americans, but when it came to raising children, those who were parents were very much the way my grandparents were with them.

I wasn’t allowed to get my drivers’ license until I’d graduated from high school. I wasn’t allowed to have a car until after my college graduation – had I wanted one, I would have had to drop out, and frankly, at that point in my life, it wasn’t a big deal – there’s something to be said for excellent public transit :wink:

Friends? If I were going out with my girlfriends, I’d have to give a “courtesy call” if I was going to be late coming home, but that was it. Dating, OTOH…let’s put it this way: I never really dated because my mother would put the poor guy through the 10th degree before I’d be let out of the house with him. My “dates” were mostly group affairs with guys with whom I was already friends and had no romantic interest in whatsoever. At that age I was petrified of anything romantic. Thanks, Mom.

I can add so much more, but I don’t want to hijack this thread.

I’m also an only, and that’s the other thing I’m wondering re the OP. The overprotection has an awful lot to do with that.

Wow OP, you sound like my mom.

I was the perfect daughter until I went to college. Then I went nuts. My parents never knew just how much. I tried being open with them, because like the OP’s daughter, I was very close with my mom and was in the habit of telling them everything. But telling them everything just ended up with them freaking out and trying to keep closer tabs on me. When I complained about them controlling me, they were always hurt. “We’re just worried about you.” It was so incredibly frustrating. I’d been nothing but trustworthy for 18 years of my life, but they were still treating me like I was 6.

Anyway, I went through my crazy phase, and then I grew up and became an adult. I’m as close with my mom as I ever was, but I certainly don’t tell her everything - I stopped doing that at 18. Thankfully my mom has mellowed out, and we have a pretty great relationship. What she doesn’t know won’t hurt her. :slight_smile:

Of course we do. When my mother immediately finds fault with every. single. goddamn. thing. I talk about doing, I know it’s because her love for me motivates her to worry about all the bad things that could happen and those things are unfortunately what comes flying out of her mouth. There is no decision too large or small to worry about being DOOMED by some factor any half-bright kindergarten child could foresee and take into account, from getting married to quitting my horrible soul-sucking job to dyeing my hair to getting some chickens for the back yard. It’s a real drag, and since I’ve learned to never ever tell her anything unless I’m prepared to listen to a ration of shit about it, it really limits the depth of our conversations. I know it’s because she loves me, but no matter how much we love each other, there’s still a limit to how much of her infantilizing negativity I’m willing to listen to and what I’m willing to listen to it about.

Her being motivated by love doesn’t make her actions any less damaging to our relationship. That’s what we’ve been trying to explain to you. Just because your actions are motivated by love, that doesn’t make them good and right and healthy for you or your daughter. People who feed their dogs bacon and chocolate and treat them like tiny humans in fur coats act out of love too, but what they’re doing is completely counterproductive to the dog’s welfare.

And what we hope you understand is that we’re not saying these things just to be harsh or mean–we’re motivated by concern just as much as you are. We don’t want your daughter to wind up like the people we’ve seen in similar situations, who either wound up with strained/non-existent relationships with their parents or who are in their 30’s, 40’s, 50’s, even 60’s and still live at home and spend their evenings sitting at home with Mom and Dad.

Some of the writing from the OP is so trite that it looks like someone’s having a bit of a laugh with us all.

I should point out that I’m from Toronto (as presumably this poster is - if I hear Jamaican-Canadian, I immediately think of Toronto) and it’s very very very common to stay at home for university. There are three great universities in the city offering pretty much every subject under the sun, and a lot of first-generation immigrants cannot conceive of spending thousands of dollars just for their kid to get drunk and party when they should be making use of that precious time to study and get into a good profession. Of my high school graduating class, well over half went to York and UofT. I’m second generation and my parents felt the same way. (And I graduated with savings in the bank, rather than debt - can’t beat that today!)

Or, you know, she could be having us on.

She is not going to listen. Did your mothers ever listen? Did my mother ever listen? There will be a war and the daughter will either cut off ties, furious, or forever be under the thumb of her mother.

At least i was allowed to get a license when I was 17. They had no choice - they wanted me to commute to college for two years before I moved away.

My mother listened. It took her three years, but she did listen. She had her friends telling her that she was going to lose me if she carried on in this over-protective, “she’s not a grown-up, but she’s my baby” way. and she almost did. I refused to come home during college vacations, became incredibly closed off and defensive around her, etc etc, refused to go anywhere with her, and generally cut myself off, emotionally, if not physically.

Then a light switch went off, and mum loosened her control, allowed me to make my own mistakes, and counseled me like a friend and equal, as opposed to a mother telling her very young daughter what to do. And what do you know? It worked.

Mum and I are closer than we’ve ever been, even though I live 6 timezones away; I can call her up one day on the phone, talk to her for an hour, and then call her up the next day and talk to her for an hour again. There’s no secrets between us anymore – she knows all the ups and downs of my life, professional and personal, as I know hers. Mum will drop everything to be by my side in an emergency, and I’ll do the same for her. She’s not just my mum, she’s my best friend.

I’m really, really happy for you. No sarcasm. And more than a little envious. It never worked for my mom.

I totally disagree with you that all kids have second facebook accounts. I insist if my daughter is to have a facebook, I monitor it. I also friend her friends. She doesn’t have another account and I keep my mouth shut at the little things in order to have access to a bigger thing that could be a problem. If she has a second account, I can say with all confidence she is never on it.

I see nothing wrong with parents of minors doing the same. Computer histories and parental monitoring aren’t spying. It is being a responsible parent. However, since your daughter concurs I feel bad for the relationship or lack thereof between her friends and her friend’s parents.

Parents should definitely monitor their underage kids’ computer usage, including their FB accounts. You can’t let those little hellions out in the world and then blame the rest of us for corrupting them. They’re your responsibility! And your responsibility to civilize them. :slight_smile:

Now wanting to monitor an 18 YO’s FB page is a whole different kettle of fish, of course.

That sucks, Anaamika, and I’m really sorry to hear that. I think it depends a lot on the individual (parent, not child), and how much they’re willing to change from the traditions in the “old country”, so to speak. Of course, what really gets me, is that having gone back to India, and spoken to friends and colleagues who’ve grown up there, they tell me that the way I was brought up was the way their grandparents were brought up.

Some of my mum’s cousins are going through the same thing with their kids right now, and mum always advises them the same thing; let them grow up. “You don’t live in Pakistan, or India, or East Africa anymore, we live in England. If you treat them like our parents treated us, you won’t be able to have a relationship with your child”. They always then ask mum how she and I have such a good relationship. Mum’s answer? “I let her grow up, make her own mistakes and was there for her as her best friend when things went wrong”.

I have friends who were taken back to Pakistan because “America will ruin my daughters”. The son of course was allowed to stay here and presumably be ruined. They both had arranged marriages…they don’t think just because they live in the States the girls should be allowed to live freely.

As far as I know my mother never really forgave me for not being with an Indian guy and not being a proper Indian daughter. She’s dead now, so she never will.

Wow. You have been preventing her from having friends? “Isn’t so bad”? :eek:

Please tell us you’re joking.

I’ve always said that one of the VERY best things my folks did for me was not baby me. I was taught to drive at a very early age. By the time I got my license it was a walk in the park.

I was working at an early age too. My transition to the real world was a snap, with hardly a stumble or fall.

Maybe, but no-one here has embarrassed themselves with their replies.

See, that’s not what trust means.

You’re getting good advice here. You can’t continue to treat your daughter the same way you did when she was 6 or 10 or 12. She won’t be an adult when you decide she gets to be an adult. It’s also not something that happens from one day to the next – one day a completely helpless and dependent child, the next a completely capable and independent adult. Ideally, there is a process that involves the child taking on more and more steps on her own while still having the safe structure of her family to come back to, until she’s fully able to live productively and competently on her own.

Think of a young bird. The goal is not that the bird live safely in the nest until the end of time, the goal is that the bird be able to fly away and make its own nest eventually. If you actively prevent your own young bird from stretching her wings, then when it’s time for her to fly away, she’ll crash.

Your job was to wholly protect your 6-year-old. Your job description has radically changed. If you don’t do some serious rethinking about what your aim is, you’re going to push your daughter away and leave her terribly unprepared for her life as an adult.

I get really really angry about shit like this – they don’t do that in Pakistan anymore even! Heck, most of my cousins in Karachi have had love marriages, one of my cousins just got her research-based Masters from a Karachi-based university (and lived on campus the whole time). Another of my cousins from Karachi is moving to London next year on a full scholarship – her father refuses to let her stay with family, telling her that she needs to learn to be independent. I honestly can’t think of a single male or female cousin of mine from Pakistan who’s been denied his or her education and freedom. Times have changed, even in the Old Country/Back Home/Over There/Wherever You Want to Call It.

That said, I do know girls who were sent to Pakistan, forced to wear burkha and married off to a guy 20 years older than them. It still makes me angry as all get out though.

I am genuinely sorry to hear that.

I feel like I was very lucky – my father always said, even when I was 16/17, that he didn’t care whether or not I married an Indian man, he just wanted the man I married to make me and keep me happy for my entire life. When I was graduating from college, mum’s relatives started bringing rishta (marriage proposals); mum turned them all down without even consulting me – by that point her attitude was “I won’t control her life, she has real potential to make a good career for herself and there is no way I’m throwing her into marriage now”. Even now, family bring her rishta for me (Oh, but Angua’s getting on a bit, and well, she’s not married is she, don’t you think its time?), and she tells them to go away, as I’m in a relationship with a man who makes me happy. The relationship took a long time to get even to that point, and it helped that she had English friends who told her she was making a mistake, and she saw the way that her cousins in Pakistan treated their grown children, before she realized that things had to change.