.32 or .380?

In My Humble Opinion
1

After I move out of California I want to buy a Walther PPK. (You can’t buy them from gun dealers here anymore and I want a new one.) I don’t plan to use it as protection, but I just want to have it for my collection. I like the looks of the stainless steel model.

Part of the reason I want one is because James Bond used one, which leads to the delimma. Should I get the .32 calibre that James Bond used, or the .380 which is a more popular round in the U.S.? I’m already “compromising” the “authenticity” of James Bond’s gun by opting for the stainless steel, so why not choose the more popular round?

Opinions?

2

Bypass the .32 and .380 Walther PPK and go for the .454 Cassull by Taurus Arms. The PPK looks neat but lacks punch, the .454 Cassull looks neat and packs at least ten times the punch. James Bond would carry a PPK, Dirty Harry would pack the Cassull.

3

Well, the .380ACP has far more availble loads than the .32ACP. Just on that basis, I’d go with the bigger cartridge.

4

Nah, I like the PPK. I like the “James Bond” connection, and I don’t intend to use it as a weapon. I already have a Colt 1991-A1 and some Black Talon hollowpoints, as well as a Beretta 92FS and Black Talons. (Not that they’re actually loaded. I don’t have a need for loaded guns around the house.) The PPK is just for my collection and for informal shooting.

(Besides, I’d rather be James Bond than Dirty Harry.)

5

Go for the .380 if you must buy a pop gun. For me, it’s a no brainer. If you’re buying it just to look at, you might as well get the cheaper one.

You might also keep in mind that in some of the Gardner books, he kept a .44 Magnum Ruger Blackhawk in the glovebox for real problems. If I was gonna buy a little James Bond popgun, I’d go for the Beretta .25 with a silencer.

6

Non-gun person poking in because this seems like a great time to ask an ignorant question that’s been bothering me:

Why is it .380 and not just .38?

7

Hoo boy, the wonderful world of cartridge designations. There are several common bullets that share the same diameter, namely .356 inch. These, in approximate order of development .38 S&W, .38 Special, 9mm Parabellum, .357 Magnum, 9mm Kurz/.380 ACP, .38 Super, .357 Maximum, .357 S&WT, and .357 Sig. I may have missed a couple, but these are all the majors. Why .38 and not .356? The .38 S&W was developed from an earlier round, the .38/40, IIRC which did measure .38 inches. Since S&W intended their new cartridge as an improvement, they used the older number instead of a new smaller number, probably as a marketing ploy.

Now for the real differences. The .38 S&W, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, and .357 Maximum are all identical except in one respect, the length of the casing. This prevents loading an overpowered cartridge in a gun that cannot handle it. The differences in the rest, except the .357 Sig, which doesn’t look anything at all like the rest, being what is known as a necked-down case, are also mainly in case length, but there are some minor differences in the design of the base of the cartridge. For the automatic cartridges (which differ from the revolver cartridges I mentioned first in not having a rim), the length progresses from .380/9mm Kurz, 9mm, to .38 Super. I think the S&WT is between the 9mm and .38 Super, but I’ve never actually seen one of these. It was a special target round developed for a line of expensive S&W target autos.

If I didn’t make it clear, the .380 is also known as the 9mm Kurz in Europe. Kurz is German for “short”, which makes since as it is quite a bit shorter than the 9mm Parabellum.

To sum up your question in the simplest possible terms, .38 is usually meant to refer to the .38 Special. .380ACP is a totally different cartridge and the “0” is added to help differentiate it.

8

I forgot to add that .38 ACP is often taken to mean the lower-powered version of the .38 Super, which was another target round, developed by Colt in this case. Still, by the time the .38 Super was developed, .380 was already in use in the US to refer to the 9mm Kurz.

I also forgot some other semi-popular 9mm variants: the 9mm Makarov (Russian), 9mm Largo (Spanish), 9mm Police

Some other esoterica: the 9mm Parabellum, is known as the 9x19mm in NATO terminology. The .380 is the 9x17mm. The Makarov 9x18, the Largo 9x23.

Bullet weights for the various .38/.357/9mm generally vary from 85 grains in the .380 to 180 or more for the .357 Magnum/Maximum.

I’d also add for any nitpickers out there that there are a lot of little minor differences in some of the case dimensions. Even among the auto cartridges, most are rimless while some are semi-rimmed. This is probably a lot more than the average non-gun-toting doper wants to know, but ya gotta CYA when giving facts.

9

IIRC, the “ACP” in .380ACP means “Automatic Colt Pistol”.

sewalk, that .25 Beretta is a cute little gun. Of course silencers are banned in most states.

To hijack my own thread, what are the ballistics of the .25 vs. the .22LR? It seems the .22LR can be had in some fairly powerful loads for its size.

10

IMO, the .25 is just about as worthless as any popular pistol cartridge. The only one I can think of with a worse reputation was the Dutch Schuboe (sp) which was similar to the .45 ACP except for its jacketed wooden bullet. .25 was deleoped as the smallest centerfire case. It had nothing to offer over .22LR (and certainly not over .22 WinMag). Of course, if you insist on a very small rimless case, it fits the bill. It does fit in a magazine much better than the .22 rimfire. One thing to remember is that the modern .22 is really a rifle cartridge, albeit a tiny one. If someone ever developed a commercially available .25ACP rifle, or even submachine gun, I’d be shocked.

11

Before you lay down your hard-earned ducats on a PPK in any caliber, you might want to try shooting one. They’re not comfortable in hand (unless you have VERY small hands), and the hammer can rip your thumb/forefinger webbing something fierce if your grip is a tad sloppy.

FWIW, I wanted one for the same reasons as you give, but after shooting my cousin’s PPK (in .380), I decided the novelty wasn’t worth it for a gun I didn’t like.

12

I used to have one. I sold it and bought the Beretta 92FS (which I chose over the Glock because it felt better in my hand). You’re right, the PPK is small; but I never had any trouble with it.

13

.380 is the smallest generally accepted combat cartridge. I’ve never heard of any respected authority recommending anything smaller, and most consider the .380 to be very marginal. The .25ACP is generally sneered-at, being less useful than the .22 Long Rifle, and frankly, I’ve not heard of anyone actually shooting the .32 in quite a while.

Beretta makes a fine little handgun, but the PP-series are way overpriced, IMO. You can be pretty much assured, however, of a fine example of the gunmaker’s art, should you buy one.

14

The .25 averages about 800 fps and 70 ft/lbs (muzzle velocity and energy)

The .22LR, out of a pistol, on average, is about 1050 fps and 100 ft/lbs. The high velocity loads such as the yellow yackets and stingers, etc… are around 1650 fps and just shy of 200 ft/lbs.

A .32 averages around 900 fps and 130 ft/lbs.

The .380 is about 1000 fps and 200 ft/lbs.

15

So it sounds as if between the .380 and the .32, the .380 is the way to go.

Thanks!

16

Forgive me for coming in late, but…didn’t Bond trade in his PPK for a Walther P99 in Tomorrow Never Dies and continue to use the P99 in The World Is Not Enough? Look to the future, man!