5 year old getting undressed at school with boy

In My Humble Opinion
1

Well it seems that my daughter has come to the age where she wants to ‘play doctor’. It seems that some time this week my almost 5 year old daughter went into the bathroom with an almost 5 year old boy. It then seems they closed the door and took off their clothes. This however is third hand information right now since it comes from the teacher, to my ex to me.

The teacher, at a Montessori school, caught them and their punishment was no PE and they couldn’t sit together at lunch. The two have been friends for the last year and a half.

Quite frankly this doesn’t really bother me, I know this is what kids do around this age and to the best of my knowledge they were only looking. I don’t think it’s something they should be doing at school, but I think the teacher might have given them a bit too much punishment.

Now my ex wants to talk to my daughter about it and I don’t know what to say.

So what kinds of things should I say to my daughter? Also what should I say to the teacher as I’ve asked to speak to the teacher next week? I don’t want my daughter to think that seeing a naked boy is ‘sinful’ for lack of a better word, and I think the punishment at school might make them think they were doing something really bad.

2

Maybe just keep it extremely simple like: “One of the rules at school is that we don’t take off our underwear at school except to use the bathroom, and we don’t in front of other people unless we need a [insert the appropriate title for the grownups] help after having an accident.” She may then ask why, but maybe not. By the age of 4.5, she’s already aware that there are different rules for home and other places.

If she does, tell the modified truth: the school can get in trouble because people being undressed is a safety issue (like a fire drill, which is less scary than “an emergency” which might make her worry there will be one, and like how we need to wear our shoes/boots out to recess).

3

Dan Savage’s Savage Love Podcast had something about this in this week’s show (episode 224, 2/1/2011), which focused on issues from parents and explaining sex/relationship issues to kids. His guest was Amy Lang of Birds and Bees and Kids. Basically a woman’s 6 y.o. boy was very much “I wanna show you mine/I wanna see yours” and was doing this at school with other kids.

They recommended the “that’s your private area, and other kids have their own private parts too” talk, and monitoring playtime at your house - play in a common area, stop by or pass through every 5 minutes or so - closely to avoid the “Billy showed me his weiner/OMG your child is a pervert and/or was molested” issue. (Dan, a father himself, half-jokingly recommended a little bit of shame instillation to avoid the potential problem of other kids and parents feeling nervous about your kid.)

They also said maybe a teacher or school counselor could have a little chat to the same effect.

Finally, they recommended not making a Big Huge Deal about it because some kids may love getting negative attention for this or anything else, and it’s just a (rather annoying) phase that the kid will grow out of.

The actual call is at about 15:19 into the podcast, if you do listen to it, but be aware that this is so not ever a safe-for-work podcast.

4

I also don’t see any harm in it. I would make it known to the kid, while there’s nothing “wrong” with it, there is a time and a place for everything and that isn’t acceptable behaviour at that time and place.

As for the punishment, just explain that you don’t agree with the punishment, but it’s not up to you and in life, there will be times when the punishment is too harsh for the “crime,” but then again, there will be times when the reverse is true, so while you are not in agreement with the punishment, the kid will have to live with it and “wear it” so to speak.

Now is the time for part I of the “sex talk”

5

For littler kids, the “everything covered by your bathing suit is your private area” is a good rule.
And, if/because the kids are about equal in age and cognitive ability, it’s not a big deal.

Sounds like everything is working out OK and I’d be inclined to let whichever parent has primary custody handle it so as to not blow the issue out of proportion.

You said "Now my ex wants to talk to my daughter about it and I don’t know what to say. "
Did you mean your ex has custody but wants you to handle the problem? Or do you mean you have custody and she want to come over and investigate the issue further?

6

I agree with elfkin477’s advice.

Was “they couldn’t sit together at lunch” for the one day, or going forward? If it’s going forward, I’d complain.

7

The punishment doesn’t seem overdone to me. It wasn’t like they had electricity ran through them or even a spanking. And, the fact that they had closed the door behind them shows that they knew that they were doing wrong. Being separated from a friend for lunch??? Missing PE? I got that just for talking without permission during class. Of course, I was 23 at the time, and working on my master’s, but, I’ll bet the kids are just as tough as me!
So, what to say to child was well covered by elfkin477. I wouldn’t bother with any modified truth business, tho; what, the kid’s gonna subpoena mom if she doesn’t get a satisfactory answer? And why bring safety into the issue? You’ll just have to conjure up more fairy tales to tie that in.
Also, just explain that different places thing, as **MarkXXX **said. Should suffice.

Best wishes,
hh
Best wishes,
hh

8

She has custody, but wants us both to talk to my daughter. Then again I’m sure that my ex will not really talk to me about it so I don’t know what’s going to be said.

Thanks for the Dan Savage podcast, I’ll have to give it a listen.

As for the punishment, I’m more worried about how they might say something. I don’t want my daughter to think that being curious about the body to be bad, but she does have to follow the rules. I guess I’m worried that they might have said it in a way to that what she was doing was really really bad and not just breaking a rule if that makes sense.

9

When I was in kindergarten, I kissed a boy in the coat room.

There, now you know my shocking story.

I would just tell my child to keep their clothes on in school. Just drop trou to go potty and that’s it. And no watchers.

10

“Grown ups can be pretty weird about some stuff, and one of those things they can be weird about is you taking your clothes off. It’s okay at home, if you want, but keep 'em on at school, okay?”

Honestly, it seems about 75% of the time, the answer to “why?” is some variation of “grown ups can be pretty weird.” It’s okay, kids expect it, and they actually respect you for acknowledging it.

As for the school, thank them for noticing the problem and bringing it to your attention. Ask them to please keep you informed if anything else happens, and assure them that you’ve addressed it with your daughter. Chances are, they’ll be mollified with that and that will be the end of it. Really, they want to make sure you’re not going to overreact and sue them or underreact and ignore the “problem”.

11

This is a boundary problem. Tell your kid that everyone always keeps their private parts hidden in public places (which includes school), unless you have a potty accident and then it’s okay to get the teacher to help you clean up.

Do not spin it as adults being “weird” because that’s false and you shouldn’t lie to your kids. It’s normal to keep nudity completely to oneself in one’s bedroom and bathroom when one is under 18, and to oneself and one’s sexual partners behind closed doors when one is over 18, unless one lives in a nudist colony.

For everyone saying they don’t think this is worth getting concerned over, would you be okay with this if your kid was at another kid’s house and this happened? Or if it happened in your house? What if the kids were 12? It’s just not acceptable, and better to nip in the bud before this becomes a habit. I would not be happy if my kid was doing this with another kid, even outside the school context.

If you want to satisfy your kid’s curiosity about what the other sex has inside their pants, grab a medical textbook. While I agree that you don’t want to instill a sense of body shame into a kid so young, you also don’t want to raise a kid who pushes what can be viewed potentially as sexual bounds at this young of an age. Whether you like it or not, this is what other parents will think, if it becomes a habit. Unless you raise your kids in a nudist colony.

I have a potentially relevant anecdote. When my little cousin (who just turned 10) was a toddler, she used to reach into her pants and rub her underwear between her fingers as a self-soothing technique when she was sleepy, and she would do this in public. She wasn’t masturbating but it seriously looked like she was. When family members brought it to my uncle’s attention, and that it looked creepy and wrong, he said “It’s no big deal, she just likes the feel of the fabric.” I don’t know why he wouldn’t get her a blankie made of underpants material or something, but he didn’t and he didn’t bother teaching her that what she was doing wasn’t acceptable in a public place because it looked creepy and wrong. She was still doing this at age 8, and when she hosted a slumber party she got singled out and embarrassed for it by her friends. Peer ridicule finally got her to stop. But her father should have taught her that. Would have spared her a lot of shame.

Norms can be pointless, yes, but unless you want your kid to be viewed as abnormal then you should adhere to them. I say this as someone who adheres to very few norms in adulthood. But I’m glad I was raised taking (most of) them for granted as a kid, because otherwise my childhood would have been very unpleasant. It’s the same reason you don’t name a kid Apple Skyfeather Hippiekid Smith. Why start them out with a disadvantage that’s going to get them singled out negatively?

12

I’m just thinking of the teen I know that was suspended one day for asking another boy during a sex ed class if they ever kissed a girl. According to the principle it’s a mandatory suspension in Wisconsin since spring last year to ask anther student something like that. He’s the second kid in that school suspended this year for that.

13

I told my daughter that there was nothing dirty or shameful, but that those areas were private.

She was cool with it.

14

If you’re going to go with “parts of your body should be kept private”, make sure the kid knows the meaning of “private”.

I remember first grade, the teacher saying “pass these papers to your neighbor” and me sitting there like a dumbass because none of my neighbors were in the class.

God, I’m glad I don’t have to grow up again.

15

Am I the only person who doesn’t think this has to do with societal norms? It’s not like they did it in public. They went and hid in the bathroom. They know they aren’t supposed to do it, but they don’t know why. They are likely just curious.

If it’s an unwanted behavior, you’ll have to create a consequence, or the behavior will continue. So that’s what the teacher did. There’s nothing else to be concerned about.

16

Sorry, but isn’t playing doctor as normal as you can get for small kids?

17

I’d wait another five years before I worried what tiny children were doing together naked.

And even then it wouldn’t matter.

18

IME adults can be weird about stuff like nudity. I don’t think that’s lying to the kid; I remember telling my kids that the adults at school were likely to be very uptight and about things like nudity and sex; that while it’s perfectly okay to discuss them at home, they should employ some discretion at the school house. You never know what hangups people have.

19

I don’t think it’s a lie at all. Your post is my cite.

20

I’m sorry, I agree with what I think WhyNot is saying. This strikes me as a very strange reaction and a huge overreaction. Actually, I’d be perfectly fine if my five year old daughter did this at our house or one of her friends. It’s one of the things that children this age do, that’s all. They’re curious and they’re learning. The idea that I would offer a five year old a medical textbook to address this curiosity strikes me as entirely inappropriate and likely to instill exactly the sort of shame that you say you’re trying to avoid. And of course my reaction would be different if the children were 12: there is a universe of difference between 5 and 12. 12 year olds are on the cusp of adoloscence, 5 year olds are barely more than babies and they’re just learning how to behave appropriately in the world.
To the OP: I agree with others - children get that there are different requirements in different situations, and I’d concentrate on that. I do think the punishment was slightly disproportionate but I’d be careful not to criticise it to the child - I’m always conscious not to undermine discipline structures in front of my daughter. If I was that concerned I’d let the school know I thought it was excessive, but I’d probably let it go.