Guano said: “They recommend that others use them.”
You may very well be right, but please back this up and post some links to all these serious “recommendations”. Let’s get the big bad “pushers” out in the open.
What is there to get??? You think drug use is bad and people shouldn’t tell others that it is a good thing. WE FUCKING GET IT ALREADY. We just don’t agree with you, and we’ve been telling you WHY.
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Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
“Meat flaps, yellow!” - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
My turn!
GuanoLad - I am not going to insult you; your personal feelings towards drug use are not my business. However…
Okay, now I’m getting really tired of the number of times people have to make this point. Law = guidelines prescribing acceptable standards of behaviour in a society and the punishments for not following them. law does not equal morality. Morality is (roughly) what is right and what is wrong. The law change - therefore it cannot be absolute. Therefore the acceptable standards of behaviour it “protects” are not absolute.
Don’t be ridiculous. Who here has said that everyone should take drugs?
My interpretation is that the majority of posters here who use drugs are aware that it’s not a risk-free activity, but that the risks are no worse than those involved in ‘legal’ drug-taking. Maybe I’m being dense, but I don’t remember anyone recommending drug use. If someone asks me, I will tell them my opinions/experiences of drug use. That’s not recommending it.
Why? You may have been insulted, but then again, you’ve insulted other people. This is the bleedin’ Pit after all. If you don’t like what’s happening in this thread, don’t read it.
I never touched him, ref, honest!
Apologies for the typos in my previous post. It’s 12.30am GMT, my team have just scored a fantasticaly unlikely victory against the only undefeated side in Britain tonight and I’ve had a few Fosters and Kronenbourgs.
My logic in the post may have been a little off, but the point remains. Law is not the same as morality., What is allowed is not the same as what is right.
I never touched him, ref, honest!
I really wanted this to end. Not because of being insulted, but because I don’t think my OP should have elicited such unnecessarily cruel treatment.
I told myself I’d abandon this thread, despite the fact that the moderator won’t close it, but I can’t help myself, I need to answer puffington’s points.
I know. And I’ll say I don’t like whatever it is I don’t like. What’s the problem? I just wanted you to explain your side.
How do you know what I think about alcohol? In point of fact, I absolutely abhor alcohol! I hate it with a fiery passion! And smoking, I hate that too, possibly even more so.
But those are legal and allowable, and even though I still don’t fully comprehend why people do it, but as most of the world does it, including 99% of the people I know, then it’s not something I need to start a thread about. I have no real weight behind me in condemning alcohol use, it’s just a lone voice almost. For drug use, I have the law aspect at least.
Smoking repulses me. I hate these things so much, I refuse to go to pubs or some social areas just because it’s full of smokers and drinkers - it turns my stomach, not at the physical sensations of smoke either, it’s the whole social atmosphere of drinkers and… ugh, I can’t stand it.
(I also don’t like sport, but I don’t think I have any good reason at all to want that banned - that’d be a death sentence)
So I’m not being hypocritical, if that’s what you thought.
I wasn’t treating you any differently. In fact, I was asking you what your side was! People kept talking about the law aspect, but that was not what I cared about, it was the why’s and wherefore’s of using the stuff, despite the law.
Yeah, I should’ve done that, but I’ll never be able to find them now. The crappy search engine, coupled with my incompetence at searching through a thousand threads one at a time to find a few mentions of something specific, means it is not going to happen. But believe me, there were people who were going on and on about how wonderful using drugs is, and that everyone should do it so they know what it’s like.
No you haven’t. You’ve just been insulting, obtuse, annoying, and avoiding the question.
Matt: I simply don’t believe that. I believe laws to be more important than you ascribe. That’s why I differ so much on that point. Laws are very important.
Confession time: I was arrested, went to court, and had to see a psychologist over something I did that I deemed harmless. It was, however, illegal. I learned and was told unequivocally after that, that the law is what should guide us in most issues more than just our personal desires, harmless though those desires may appear to be. They aren’t just guides, really - they’re directions, they’re barriers, they’re important social structural elements that should not be dismissed so lightly.
sigh
-PIGEONMAN-
Returning Soon!
The Legend Of PigeonMan - Watch this space…! Great things are afoot!
Guano, the only one being obtuse, insulting, and annoying is YOU. You’re the one flying off the handle left and right.
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Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
“Meat flaps, yellow!” - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
EH?
Who’s talking about breaking them lightly? We have already seen that the law is an evolving, changing set of rules. Nothing is “right” or “wrong” per se, but only in relation to the social mores of the day. Before we go any further, are you denying that? There’s an awful lot of history weighing in against you if you are. Slavery? Still okay? Suffrage for women? Should it be illegal? (I’m not accusing you of supporting these things; merely pointing out that to deny that laws change is to deny things that we all take for granted)
Okay, if morality is not absolute and unchanging - and this is my personal point of view - then the law cannot reflect morality. It can only reflect morality for a given moment/period in time. That’s not trivialising laws. It’s understanding how laws are created, modified and die.
Drug-taking is wrong, according to the law (generally, depending on location, etc etc). However, the law allows for some forms of addictive drug-taking - tobacco, alcohol, caffeine etc. When a substance is believed widely enough to be no more harmful than existing legal substances, there will inevitably be controversy if it is prohibited.
How are laws changed? Is every law changed through the actions of the supreme legal authority, forging ahead to change society? Of course not. Legal change is often initiated through social pressure; when enough people believe that there is a need for change, it may well happen. Morality is independent of law - the law changes to reflect the morality of the majority (okay, I’m generalising here, it’s late and I’m tired).
The law does not define what is right and what is wrong. Society defines that. The law codifies society’s morality. You can’t say “Because it is illegal, it is wrong.” The truth is “Because people believe it is wrong, it is illegal.” And if people change their minds…
This is rambling now. I’m knackered and need sleep. GuanoLad, if this thread bothers you, please don’t look at it - there’s no way we’ll all agree here.
I never touched him, ref, honest!
I will state here and now that I do recommend marijuana for certain people, saving you the trouble of searching through all those posts, Guano.
If anyone cares, here are my guidelines:
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If you have any alcoholics in your family or other addicts (other than nicotine; everyone gets hooked on that nasty shit), then there’s a pretty good chance you carry the addiction gene, and shouldn’t smoke pot.
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If you are mentally unstable or come from an abusive background, you’d been well advised to steer clear of pot. This kinda goes with #1, since the majority of abusers are addicted to something, usually alcohol.
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If you tend to overindulge in pleasurable activities, you probably shouldn’t smoke pot either.
As far as other drugs go, I’m borderline about psychedelics. I’ve used them in the past, but don’t anymore. If you use them too
much, they can fuck up your mind pretty bad. I’ve known people who are on permanent trips and it’s not a pretty thing. Whether these permanent trips are a direct result of the drugs, or the action of the drugs triggering a dormant mental disorder that was there the whole time, I cannot say. It’s best to stay on the safe side, though, and not use psychedelics more than once every couple months at the most. (and certainly NEVER if you have been diagnosed with, or suspect you have, a mental disorder)
Opiates and stimulants? Don’t touch them if you value your life. I haven’t known any heroin addicts, but I’ve seen cocaine turn honest people into self-loathing thieves who will do ANYTHING to get that powder. I’ve seen cokeheads and crackheads steal from their own mothers. One guy I knew stole his mother’s car and sold it for crack on four sepearate occaisions. (the cops would get the car back, and he’d go steal it again a week or two later. The heartbroken mother would never press charges.)
I’ve never tried any of this trash and I never will. I do not advocate it under any circumstances.
GuanoLad – I’m talking about tolerance and setting limits. I’m taking your point to the extreme. (Yes, I saw your post, later about this, so you should understand the extreme point making post.) You pointed out that there are laws against some drugs, therefore, people should not do them. Alcohol is legal and therefore, okay. Marijuana is not and therefore, not okay. But this set of “laws” applies in differing levels all over the world. Even here in the US. So, we are agreed that the “laws” on these two drugs (alcohol and marijuana) are arbitrary in that there is at least (up until today) no common consensus on how these two facets of existence should be addressed. Agreed?
You then talk about how people out here seem to be purporting drugs as “a good thing” (ala Martha Stewart) when I don’t agree that’s what is going on at all. Drug or alcohol use is not a positive thing nor is it negative; it’s simply a part of some people’s lives.
I don’t see anyone recommending them. Recommending them for what? Can you post some source on this? WHO WHAT WHEN WHERE? Did anyone out here recommend that “you” or anyone else try some drug? I guess if you were tired, yeah, I’d recommend a shot of coffee but I don’t recollect telling anyone to go snort some coke. I don’t recall ANY poster saying, “Hey, everyone, do this drug – it’ll rock your ever loven’ world!”
Crystal Meth and liquid Ecstacy are very big right now but I don’t see one single post extolling the virtues of their use. The only negative thread I know of regarding one of these drugs is one I started about the “Jenny Crank Diet”.
I’ve shared that drugs/alcohol are “bad” things for me to be into. I trust others to set their own boundaries. That’s why I kept mentioning pornography in my post.
You claim to have an affinity for this. I have worked in the industry and see nothing wrong with it. Unless it crosses one of MY boundaries: Children or animals or pain. However, I’m aware of the fact that many people find pornography very disturbing and feel that it should be removed and disposed of. Sure, you’re not recommending it to anyone, but by your support you perpetuate the very industry of it. And in many parts of the world pornography is illegal. Since so many “others” find this objectionable to the point they have legislated against it should we all immediately reject it?
On another point: You seem to be saying that not only are “drugs” bad, but there’s a law. My point is that in Utah, the state I live in, there are laws against oral sex, so, since there is a law I should NOT engage in this behavior. Do you see my point? Yes, there are laws about, well, almost EVERYTHING [especially in Utah]. I consider myself a law-abiding citizen but I don’t think what I do with another consenting adult in my own bedroom is anyone else’s business. Just as what you care to be stimulated by (pornography, wine, candle light, or a joint) is mine.
I didn’t say you wanted to ban anything. (And I’m not jumping all over your butt either). I was being extreme in the thought of enacting laws against personal choices that do not hurt others.
Again, yes, I too draw my lines in the sand on things. I think whatever kind of sexual intercourse happens between TWO OR MORE CONSENTING ADULTS is their business. I feel the same way about drug use.
If someone wants to stagger home every night and drink into oblivion than they have that right. This person FORFITS that right when they decide to do this behind the wheel. Inset any drug/chemical in the place “drink” above and you have my point on that as well.
You keep asking WHY and I think that’s been answered. There are dangers to drug use but I think there are dangers to the use of pornography too. It’s all in the amount, focus and content… and I’m not picking on you. Like you said, “who cares what I think?”.
Best!
Byz
This thread is immoral… oh wait, I’m the one that’s immoral (or was it immortal? i can never remember which.) nevermind
Eight hours of sleep later…
Byzantine, you’ve said exactly what I was just thinking. Cheers!
I never touched him, ref, honest!
Byz. Those were precisely the kinds of reasoned arguments I was hoping for. At last.
Thank you.
And Good Night.
-PIGEONMAN-
Returning Soon!
The Legend Of PigeonMan - Watch this space…! Great things are afoot!
Jesus, Guanolad, are you still at this? Aren’t you restating your arguments from GD about 2 months ago? From an otherwise intelligent person, you seem stuck and closeminded on this subject. GET OVER IT!
still trying to think of something witty to say here.
Ummm Zeb ?
We sort of dropped the matter a few days ago… thanks for bringing it up again 
Coldfire: second to none but Satan.
“You know how complex women are”
- Neil Peart, Rush (1993)
As for bringing it UP again:
Coldfire: You sniveling weasel! How dare you respond AGAIN! Can’t you see when a topic has run it’s point and…
Oh, yeah, well, you KNOW how complex women are!
We just love to get in the last word.
Especially when we’re right and all.
Best!
Byz
“Every muscle tense–
To fence
The enemy within.”