A question about hate speech and banning

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I have a question about hate speech and the banning of a recent poster. I realize I may be late to the party on this one, and I truly don’t know his entire posting history. I did read a few of the linked posts, and although they may have been abrasive to some readers and not written very well, I do wonder if the target of his hate was more the issue.

I do not want to have this turn into a poster bashing party, so I’d appreciate it if we refrain from pulling the poster’s name into any posts in this thread. If anyone wants to read the genesis of this thread, please see this thread

To kick this off, the banning seemed to come out of left field from reading that thread. There was a number of people who posted to it with examples of the posting history, but as far as I could tell, there wasn’t any warning, suspension, or anything else. Just a discussion amongst the staff behind the scenes, and a final post saying the offending poster was banned for being a troll.

Is it just a matter of semantics? The second post that was posted in the BBQ Pit (where I thought the type of post was permitted), seems to be universally derided as hate speech. But if the subjects he blurts out were presented differently, and he was willing to discuss them, would the result be the same?

Unpopular ideas should not preclude someone from posting here, IMO. No matter what the board at large thinks, as long as the poster is not pointing the insult or offensive statement to a unique poster on this board, I think removing someone from the board for being a bigot, racist, or in this case, an anti semite (which is a form of bigotry, isn’t it? Why the special hyphenated phrase?) is a dangerous slope to head down.

Just curious.

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We had considerable discussion about this in the mod loop. Speaking for myself, the most important issue was the fact that he didn’t appear to be interested in actually discussing or debating his ideas (if they can be characterized as such). If you check out the links in that thread, most (I think all) of his comments were one-off posts which he dumped into a thread, and then never returned to respond to other posters. This, in my opinion, indicated that his principle objective here was to troll. Before the thread in ATMB, we had not reviewed his posts as a whole, so the pattern was not so evident.

We do try to allow honest discussion of almost any subject here. But it did not appear that the bannee was here to do that.

Miller’s and Dexter Haven’s posts in the other thread I think give a good summary on our policy on hate speech, and the discussion of unpopular ideas.

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That banning absolutely did not come “out of left field.” The guy was a complete scumbag and unbelievably offensive, and I’m usually the guy standing up for people who are accused of being offensive or bigoted. I’m astonished he lasted as long as he did.

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It didn’t come out of left field. In your link the guy hits all the classic anti-semitic high points. Jews control the media. The holocaust never happened. Israel is the greatest threat to world peace. The guy even blamed 911 on the Jews.

I don’t know how you define hate speech, but in my mind that’s a textbook case.

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Emergency services are a Zionist plot? I knew it!

:wink:

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To be contrary to this point, I have to ask “so what?”

I don’t care if someone hits every “anti-semitic high point” or not. People are entitled to their opinions. There are opinions all the time that are posted that I disagree with, but I wouldn’t want the board to become a one-thought shop, where only one view is accepted.

IME on this board, Jews tend to over-react to anything that even may hint at anti Jewish bias. Jews are as open to criticism, questioning, complaint, and finger-pointing as any other group, religion, whatever.

For instance, saying Jews control the media isn’t something to get in a twist over. They are everywhere in the media outlets… tv, radio, newsprint, movies, the internet, etc. They own or run basketfuls of media companies. And they do so at a significantly disproportionate percentage than they hold in the general population at large (no, I don’t have a cite or numbers, but I don’t think it’s arguable, either).

Saying this is not, in my opinion, hate speech. I think it’s a point worth discussion. For instance, is it true or not? If it is true, what does it mean? I think in one of those posts I read a large list of media companies owned and/or controlled by jews. I didn’t read anyone refuting his list, but rather focusing on the anti-semitic drum as cover. That’s not helpful or ignorance fighting.

His list of charges in that pit thread were certainly popular beliefs, ones that most of us have heard before. But, he didn’t point a finger at any one poster here or any specific SD affiliated party. He just made ranting statements.

Like I said, I may have come to this party late, as I never even noticed him or read his user name before the thread I linked to in the OP. But if he was posting in context to the thread that’s one thing. If he dropped that post in a thread about football, I’d say yes, he’s trolling.

But for someone like me who never heard of him and read that ATMB thread, it DID seem to come out of left field. Which is why I started this OP. I’m just trying to clarify what is acceptable to post, even if it is an unpopular idea.

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I get what you are saying. I really do. But free speech works a tad different on a message board than it does in a court of law. This place is pretty fucking free, but it does have to slam the hammer down when somebody posts storm front level bullshit. And it’s not oversensitivity - it’s prudence.

The Jews aren’t “over-reacting”. Nobody is. I’m not even remotely a jew. I’m the guy that served pork ribs to a jewish guy and told him to “Suck it up, Hymie. I spent way too long smoking that meat” (and dude it was delicious. The meat was just falling off the bone. And the sauce… wow. I impressed myself) Anyway, I’m the guy that serves pork to Jews and even I found those posts offensive.

The guy was throwing out idiotic assertions. There may be more jews in the media industry than in the general population, but it ain’t no damn 95%. Come on now. And the Israel caused 9-11 thing is stretching things so far that, well, I don’t have a funny metaphor for that. It’s just too absurd.

We have to have hate speech rules to keep the storm front fuckers away. I agree it can be a gray area at times, but buddy, captain midnight’s posts are indefensible.

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Like Colibri said, the guy didn’t want to discuss. He landed stinky shits and took off running.

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Captain Midnight was not banned for hate speech. He was banned for trolling. Generally speaking, expressing a bigoted point of view will not, in and of itself, result in a banning. In CM’s case, the biggest factor in his banning was his habit of posting inflammatory OPs (not all of which were necessarily bigoted) and never returning to the thread. After reviewing his posting history in the mod loop, it was decided that his activities here were not being undertaken in good faith, and we pulled the plug on him.

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You’re Jewish, aren’t you? Admit it!

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Me? Could be. (Currently up for debate in the family, based on some recent discoveries in the family history. Someone remind me to ask in GQ how to go about finding out if one is jewish… I know the general idea, but religions can be changed for ease of assimilation into pre WWII US. Anyway, I digress)

Anyway, thanks to all for replying to this thread. Sincerely. I am glad to know he was a troll and not banned for his inflammatory posts alone.

oh, and A Monkey With A Gun, I’m a big fan of ribs. If it turns out I am jewish, I’d be proud to chomp on a few.

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I don’t have much to add to what Miller and C K Dexter Haven have said, but I’ll add that we’re reluctant to say that having a specific opinion - like “some racial groups are more intelligent than others” or “the Holocaust is a myth” - is ipso facto against the rules because it’s hateful, and anyone who believes those things is not fit to post here. I think both those views are wrong and disgusting, but it puts us in the uncomfortable position of saying some topics cannot be discussed on the SDMB because one of the opinions is not allowed. It’s the old “sunlight is the best disinfectant” theory. So posters are allowed to take positions like the ones I mentioned. On the other hand if they are just saying bigoted and hateful things and not making an argument, or if they are dragging their opinions into unrelated threads and just being nasty about it, they’re probably not going to last very long here.

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Actually, I meant Miller. 'Cause he secretly rules the SDMB.

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Stink Fish Pot, this is the requested reminder: Please start a thread in GQ or IMHO about how to find out if you are Jewish. :j

Just please don’t start the thread Friday afternoon.

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[del]Simpsons[/del] Sweet Willy’s already done that. :smiley: