Correction: manhatten works near the WTC. I don’t know where he lives at all.
Sorry, I should have pointed out that I was referring to this post:
For crying out loud!
manhattan lives in Manhattan. He works a stone’s throw from WTC. He’s been attending funerals of friends and associates that were murdered. This insensitive prick Sultan pushed buttons for no other reason than to push buttons. And manhattan has to walk past that rubble every day.
So he said something in the heat of the moment. I wonder how some of you would have reacted in that situation.
You’re like dogs ragging on a bone.
Let it fucking go, already.
That was for Arden Ranger, not Yue Han.
Thanks 
I’ll use this thread to respond to a point brought up by SuaSponte in my closed thread…
I believe that he believes that some of them are, particularly the ones who may have erected the ‘cross’ and claimed it was an act of God, or those who honestly believe that God placed it there (why would God pick one religious symbol over all others?).
It seems that we can’t attack anyone who is involved in the clean-up efforts, that they are all automatically ‘heros’. I don’t think this is a realistic view. There are thousands of people involved in the clean-up efforts, and though I’m sure the majority of them are just trying to do their civic duty for the best of reasons, and those who are just doing their job, I’m equally sure that there are morbid fucks hoping to find a dead body so they can tell their friends about it, looters hoping to find a nice piece of jewelry, and hypocritical fanatics using it as an opportunity to ‘witness’ to people who are in a weakened emotional state. Sultan believed that there were people there who were capitalizing on the tragedy to promote their faith, and he is probably right, though we don’t know to what extent they were involved with the finding of the cross.
I don’t think he believed all the rescue workers were “idiots” or “hypocritical fucks”, but that some were, and he was infuriated by them.
Slip:
<shouting at the top of his lungs>
KEEP IT CIVIL!!!
Yue Han,
Thanks for your comments. I just felt that while Sultan was obviously way out of order, others were as well. And while some tried to call them on it, nothing was done. Manhattan may have had a personal connection, but s/he should also have the character to apologise for such a distasteful statement. Two wrongs do not make a right. And I found some of the things Diane said equally offensive, bashing over and over, and goading Sultan. (Slip, again, yes Sultan was acting like a prick - but let’s not toss fuel on the fire.)
Didn’t know about the other threads that got closed, but I’ll take your word for it - You seem classy and honest. And yes, dammit, you caught me…it was a leading question.
Slip, I appreciate that you have strong feelings on this subject. In the interest of trying to reach an understanding with people I disagree with, I’d like to keep things civil in this thread. I invite you to start another thread to express your less polite sentiments.
(I think this is going to be my stock response to flames here)
Strong tone aside, I think Slip has a point. The reason manhattan has not been able to post so regularly, and probably why he isn’t here defending himself, is that his entire life has been disrupted by this.
I see Badtz’s post on preview: I think it’s possible that that is how he felt; but based on his ATMB thread I think its more likely that he was trolling for a response. Your points are well taken, at any rate… I’m just not sure I’d ascribe them to Sultan, in the context as I see it.
–John
I’m going to bed, folks. Try not to destroy my fragile faith in human nature too much.
I preview but they still slip past me:
Re: other closed threads- so far, the original thread, which was antiSultan, was locked, then the antiDiane pit thread, and then the ATMB thread which was pretty much going both ways, with people defending Sultan and people calling the defenders sockpuppets.
When you posted you didn’t see my post just now about manhattan, so I’ll let it pretty much stand; he’s got a lot going on right now, we may have to wait to get his take on this.
All right, I’m really going this time. I want to say, you guys are doing a good job of being nice to each other so far, way better than I expected. Thanks.
–John
leander, my take on it is that, in context, Manny’s comment was perfectly justifiable. It’s only when the quote is done out of context that (to me) it appears all that bad.
Were I to condense my impression of the interchange, it would go something like(heavily paraphrased to get the point across)
Sultan: Rescue workers are assholes.
Diane: It takes courage to do the work that the rescue workers are doing. Digging out dead bodies is terrible. I suppose you’re too much of a pussy to touch one.
Sultan: Have you actually touched a dead body? If not, you don’t know what you’re talking about. I touched my grandmother’s body so who’s the pussy now?
Manny: So you touched your dead grandmother’s pussy? Yuk.
It was fairly tasteless, but so were Sultan’s comments. In addition, it was clearly a jibe on the fact that Sultan tried to justify his asshole-ish behavior and his machismo by bringing up his alleged dead grandma. Note also, that Sultan wasn’t particularly upset by the comment. His last three responses, posted one after another (and combined by me)
were lame attempts at insults. The first one, he “laughs” about the comment while insulting Manny, in the second one there’s another attempt at an insult (and the fact that he repeats the line about “my dead grandmother’s pussy.” doesn’t make him out to seem too upset by it (or why would he repeat it?) And the third comment is an attempt at a “you’re drunk” insult. Three tries and not one actual bit of outrage, shock or hurt. Just more trolling.
Had Manny walked into a MPSIMS thread titled “My Grandma just died” and made the comment, I’d be outraged. But he didn’t. Sultan tried to play the “dead grandma sympathy gambit” and Manny tore it apart.
Fenris
leander, do not presume to instruct me on civility. You’re not qualified.
Your snide little innuendos in questioning the integrity of the moderators disgusts me.
And I’m done here, with apologies to John for being unable to contain my anger.
Got a phone call, paid some bills, checked out the thread while online, began a response, made supper (details coming in e-mail UncleBeer :)), came back to finish my response then noticed the thread was closed, did laundry, packed my gym bag, did homework with the kids, watched Love Cruise (God I wish that was on every single night!), called my best friend to flap our jaws over Love Cruise, and now here I am.
Those of you who joined in the pile on, I kindly refer you to this thread. Feel free to trash me or take it as it was intended, it’s really up to you.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=91887
I had e-mailed Euty earlier to ask permission to open yet another thread regarding Sultan. I just recently e-mailed Lynn since I have not heard back from Euty. However, it is getting late and they have not responded so I am going out on a limb and posting it anyway. If it is not appropriate, they will lock or delete it.
Kind of like what has now started to happen again in this thread.
I was posting what I did in response to your question here:
Lynn’s post in this thread clarifies why he was banned. For trolling.
Diane -
Very nice and thoughtful response (IMHO). You’re obviously miles above Sultan and I apologise for insinuating anything about your character. I was wrong.
Slip -
Sorry, let me start over:
<whispering quietly to raging beast>
Try to be civilized. It appears to be very difficult for you, but just try. Not for me, for Mr. Yan. And God forbid I ever question the moral authority of the mods. Bad, bad, bad.
Arden -
Yeah, I see it clearly now. But then does being “too offensive”, as she states in the thread, qualify for banning?
How many of you who are defending Sultan while vilifying Diane and manhattan have ever been in the presence of a violent death? I don’t mean seeing someone in the funeral home after they’ve been ‘prettied up’ as much as possible - I mean actually trying to move a body while watching the brains spill out of what used to be a face?
I know many of you are going to deny this because you think gruesome photos or your imagination is sufficient, but until you’ve physically been involved in that kind of situation you have no idea what it is like. It changes you - I don’t know how to explain it, except that it is a mental shock that will haunt you forever. I know that it’s not fair to tell you that you just don’t understand, but unfortunately that’s the truth - you simply cannot understand unless you’ve been there, done that. Some of you have an inkling of what it is like, but many of you obviously don’t.
I used to work as a boat captain in the Gulf of Mexico oil fields - most of you are probably not aware of this, but the oil field boats do most of the rescue and assistance required because we are THERE, while the Coast Guard is not. We once were the second boat on the spot at a helicopter crash - and what is left after a small helicopter hits the water at 100+ knots is not pretty. I will not go into gory details with anyone who has not had a similar experience, but I WILL say that I have not eaten fish since that day, and never will.
I guess what I am trying to say, without sounding condescending or rude, is that those of you haven’t ‘been there’ have no idea just how offensive Sultan’s remarks were, and you have no business judging Diane and manhattan for their responses. And Sultan’s attempts to compare the situation at the WTC to the death of his cat and a couple of funerals he attended were not just pathetic, they were insulting.
Quite honestly, my immediate reaction was an overhwelming desire to beat the holy fuck out of Sultan - I can’t imagine how manhattan must have felt, or any of the other readers here who have been to Ground Zero or lost family/friends/coworkers there - most especially among the police officers and firefighters who died when the buildings collapsed. Sultan figuratively spit on their corpses.
Don’t know if this will help any of you understand the situation any better.
I apologise if i made any snide remarks in my other thread, Yue Han, but one of your replies rose my ire. Particularly this:
You called me both biased and wrong without giving any supporting evidence whatsoever. At least tell me why i am biased and wrong.
This is why i think i am unbiased: In the first part of the pit thread started by Diane, Sultan made disparaging remarks about the WTC clean-up crew. You will find these remarks offensive if you are already biased and think the clean-up crew are heroes. An unbiased person would just see it as an opinion, whether it’s wrong or right.
Yes, Sultan was being offensive in the thread, but only towards people who are biased. It just so happens that the majority of people on these boards is biased on this subject. I don’t think it’s fair that someone is banned because an unpopular opinion is shared with a lot of close minded people.
It just so happens that the majority of people on these boards is biased on this subject.
All of the people on this board are biased about
something.
I am.
You are, too.
Live with it.
Another comment (hey, what’s a good Pit thread with me, eh?)… Sultan wasn’t banned for “unpopular opinions”. That ain’t never happened, and won’t ever happen. I feel pretty secure in stating that anyone who thinks that people get banned for “only” unpopular opinions is an idiot. In fact, if you show me one single instance in getting banned for unpopular opinions, I will eat my own testicles.
Thank you. Carry on.
You people just beat a dead horse to death. This thread should have been in GD if you wanted nice. You’ve been here long enough to know that.
The guy was banned, it’s not your call to determine whether it was justified or not. It is your call to act on this message board as the rules apply. This is The Pit. It gets roudy sometimes. If we let you guys start monitoring this board you’d be the only posters here because no one else can seem to live up to your standards of what is good and what is bad. You can nitpick to death but you have no idea how anyone feels about any of this, you only know how you feel, so leave it alone and quit trying to second guess people.
The best thing that you could do would be to stay out of The Pit. You are stirring up more trouble than it’s worth.
Deal with it and move on. You ain’t gonna change anything by starting thread after thread about a subject. Especially when the threads are getting closed as fast as they are opened.
We all live here and will continue to live here so stop piling on posters. Whether you like someone or not really doesn’t matter. I don’t imagine it will make them or break them. You want to ignore them? Then just do it and shut up.
Well, there is some evidence that Yue Han did the right thing in the right place:
You know, ultress, for the most part, there haven’t been any flames in this thread. The people who were rude apologized for it. And if you are unwilling to acknowledge my reasons for putting it in the Pit, which I have explained several times in this thread, and the fact that a mod has posted here and didn’t move it I’m afraid where just going to have to disagree.
Monocracy: When I said you were biased, it was because you quoted specific profane things that were said to Sultan, but generalized Sultan’s comments in a pretty bland statement. Both sides used profanity and attacked each other; Sultan claimed that everyone who came near Diane died, mocking several recent deaths in her family. You seem unwilling to see this.
Also, is it your opinion that the workers at the WTC are no worthy of some respect? The bodies have to be cleaned up; other posters have talked about ‘the smell of death’ from the site. But its a horrible, horrible job. The bodies are several weeks old now. The workers are doing this for the good of the city and for the people who died. In my opinion, I don’t think they deserve to be told to fuck off, especially if the person doing
-
admits he is being offensive, which is why he started the ABTM thread.
-
is just using the situation as a tool to see how far he can go without being banned.
If you disagree, you’re going to have to address these things.
leander: Please try to be friendlier when asking people to be friendlier. Also, for the second time you make a backhanded swipe at the mods.
You obviously have some problem with the mods. Please explain what it is, in a statement that is usable in debate.
Diane, I know its never easy to apologize. Kudos to you.
SPOOFE: Please don’t call people idiots here, although I think by your last line that you don’t plan on posting much else here anyway.