I agree fully with pepperlandgirl. However, I want to add something to it:
It just comes down to Una’s Rule of simple politeness - not politics, not morality. If you invite people over or plan a get-together where you know even one person who shows up is a vegetarian, you have a responsibility as a host to make sure they are well taken care of.
If I invited Phil and PETA Tzunami over to my place, I would be fretting to make damn certain that what they had to eat was as good, neat, and tasty as what any non-vegetarians would be served. If I did less, then I would be very impolite as a host, and not deserving of having them over.
I have really enjoyed everyone’s posts here! I am glad I started this thread.
A few added thoughts regarding the omnivore dining at a vegetarian affair:
I cannot imagine that there are too many people out there who NEVER eat food which does not meat. Surely all of you have eaten a grilled cheese sandwich, or mac and cheese? Baked potato with sour cream? Come on. You have no political stance against these dishes, do you? I find it hard to believe that there are too many people who cannot eat any food substance, ever, unless it contains meat. (Meat flavored Twinkies, anyone?) So, I see no reason why a meat eater cannot survive a meal with spaghetti marinara, or some other “mainstream” yet meatless meal. I’m sure it’s not the first time they’ve eaten “meatless”, but they didn’t give it a second thought.
I also wanted to discuss the “vegetarians don’t eat fish/chicken” thing a little more. Bascially, it’s a matter of definition. In a mainstream context, vegetarians do NOT eat fish or chicken. That’s just the way it is. I would like to direct you to a semi-recent thread that delved into this exhaustively. (The second page is where the fish-eating-“vegetarian” discussion heated up, so I’m linking to the second page.) http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=31300&pagenumber=2
(I don’t really want to resurrect that thread, but the fish/chicken thing was all explored so completely there, I see no reason to repeat it all again here.)
Super rant, Yosemite! I was considering doing just the same thing, but you beat me to it. Of course, the only times I feel harrassed for being a vegetarian is online. I’ve lived in vegetarian houses, and most of my friends and coworkers are veggie too. My friend had a birthday party the other day and, knowing that I don’t eat meat, prepared several yummy veggie dishes, as well as meaty. I was touched that she would make sure there was enough veggie stuff to constitute a balanced meal. I don’t even thought she thought it was a big deal, she was just trying to be a good hostess. I guess this is a California thing? No one IRL ever tells me I should eat meat, only on the internet.
FTR, I went a wedding recently, and when I recieved my invitation many moons ago, the return card asked if I would like a vegetarian meal. There was only one veggie option at both the rehearsal dinner and the wedding banquet, while there were a few meaty options, but no worries, the veggie food was fantastic! I wasn’t surprised, as the groom was a vegetarian. If they had elected to serve only veggie meals, I can’t imagine anyone complaining about this delicious food. My newly married friends have decided to keep a kosher dairy kitchen, and have been nominated by both sides of the family to host Thanksgiving this year. When I expressed my surprise over this, cause they won’t be able to serve turkey, the groom’s mother said it wasn’t important, the stuffing is the best part anyway! (On a side note, the groom converted to Judaism, and it’s cool that his Christian mom has no qualms about having a turkey-less Thanksgiving because of kashrut.)
I went back to check what the original question was, and remembered I didn’t answer it because I wasn’t sure. I would tend to think yes, that the terms vegetarian and ovo-lacto vegetarian are interchangeable. ANybody else know for sure?
There are generally accepted terms in the vegetarian community. These are the terms used by the major vegetarian publications:
vegetarian = a general term for any person who does not eat any animal flesh
lacto-ovo vegetarian = a specific term for a person who does not eat any animal flesh, but does eat eggs and dairy products.
vegan = a specific term for a person who does not eat any animal derived foods.
semi-vegetarian = a general term for a person who eats a primarily vegetarian diet, but occasionally eats animal flesh.
A person who regularly eats fish and/or poultry is NOT a vegetarian. This person is “a person who does not eat red meat,” or “a person who does not eat red meat or poultry.” Those people who eat fish only, but eat it regularly, are sometimes called pesco-vegetarians, but this is a contradiction in terms, and is rarely used.
So, “vegetarian” and “lacto-ovo vegetarian” are not quite interchangeable.
Well, because some vegetarians think it is IMMORAL. You see? It would be like expecting a pro-life person to provide abortion services or something. Now, at my wedding, we did not serve “weird vegetarian food” we simply chose normal things that people eat all the time that happened to not have meat. I doubt anyone even noticed. I sure as hell wasn’t going to serve meat at my wedding, when I consider it to be murder. I didn’t force my beliefs on anyone by serving meat-free food. There are tons of food options out there, plenty of which don’t contain meat. I chose some of those.
Yeah, I mean I’m an Omnivore, but I love pasta, especially with Italian dressing. (Try it some time, it’s quick, easy and yummy!)
Or French Onion Soup. Or Noodles Romanoff. Or hell, my favorite: pierogies!
Besides, and I hate to be the one to point it out but…
you’re paying for the wedding, so why should you serve meat if you don’t want to?
If people aren’t going to come over something as silly as there not being MEAT there, then I wouldn’t want them around anyways.
Hmm… I wonder if the millitant vegetarians would object to vegtables that were grown by the exploiting of animals for fertilizer.
Also someone else was stating that people will become vegetarians because of the energy involved in creating meat but from what ive noticed its cheaper to eat meat than it is to eat veggies.
A question for vegetarians who think its immoral. Would you serve meat if someone had a moral objection to eating plants?
As for myself I think its immoral to eat bad tasting food.
I too have had my experience with a not-so-nice vegetarian. While enjoying a lovely croissant (which I had buttered), a vegetarian acquaintence informed me that I was going to die of a heart attack. Hardly a good way to start the morning. This person had also taken it upon herself to be the announcer of the evils of meat, and how disgusting it is. “Do you know how where that came from? Meat is disgusting.” Afterwards, I insisted on sharing the bliss of good ole’ meat every chance I got, dribbling fat down my chin whenever possible. Of course, she was the type to be as obtuse as possible. Staunch feminist, anti-everything. I don’t bother her much now, but back then… Oooh, I was not happy. Oh well, just thought I’d share my sad little tale.
I went to a friend’s house at Thanksgiving 3 years ago, and it was a vegetarian thanksgiving… actually quite good. (But I still wanted some turkey, dammit!)
I realized that I missed an important category in my post where I described different groups of vegetarians. The term “vegetarian aware” is mainly used within the food industry, although it seems to be spreading. It describes a person who is not a vegetarian, but will frequently make “vegetarian” choices, if they are available. (The buyer for the local supermarket doesn’t really give a hoot whether you are a vegan, or whatever. What he/she really wants to know is how many people will buy the gardenburgers.)
But you’re right that vegetarians are always asked to justify themselves.
When my sister became one it was gradual (she had allergies and started dropping things like fish).
We never thought to hassle her, so it surprized me to hear some people did. They thought she was a vegetarian before she even was one, and became so defensive she decided to go without all meat to prove a point. Now she likes it.
Vegetarians are continually asked to justify themselves, and it’s ridiculous. People who would never dream of asking a Jew to fix them a pork chop ask vegetarians to fix them meat. It’s bizarre and utterly incongruous and inappropriate.
You can be a polite vegetarian, and in fact every vegetarian I’ve ever met has been a polite vegetarian. (The vegan guy from BC was a little difficult to cook for.) When vegetarians go to eat somewhere where they are serving meat, they eat something else without meat in it.
It is not rude to not take the ham and take the salad and rice instead. It is rude not to take “no” for an answer. I don’t care how long Aunt Rose slaved over a hot stove preparing this lovely meal. The salad looks wonderful. Thank you so much. Munch munch, the end.
That is one thing. I wont’ eat ham…I saw a video of a pig being slaughtered. I had nightmares and now refuse to eat pork. (plus, I hate pork except for bacon).
That’s why I’m so glad I found turkey bacon, which isn’t as greasy and it’s easier to cook!
Well, I’m happy I learned one thing from this thread. Some meat eaters are just as petty and whiny as some vegetarians. “No meat in my free dinner?” sniff sniff Perhaps if you’re a carnivore (you don’t eat ANY plant based food), then I’ll serve you a meat dish, although I’m a vegetarian/aspiring vegan. That would be the kind of commitment I would honor. Demanding meat in your dinner because you like it/don’t like vegetables is extremely rude. If you want your ideal meal, make it yourself. Vegetarians have moral convictions, and that is something that a lot of meat eaters have a hard time comprehending.
I’m going to make an OBVIOUS newbie mistake here, and assume that you’re referring to my post when you said this.
(I said: “I went to a friend’s house at Thanksgiving 3 years ago, and it was a vegetarian thanksgiving… actually quite good. (But I still wanted some turkey, dammit!)”) I wasn’t whining at the time. The point was that I didn’t KNOW that this would be a vegetarian dinner. Note that I also said that it was GOOD. Just a surprise to be served Eggplant Parmasan when expecting a traditional Thanksgiving dinner. I happen to like turkey, that’s all. And I went again the NEXT year knowing full well that I would be getting a vegetarian meal, and AGAIN, I enjoyed it.
Thanks for your rant, yosemitebabe. I agree wholeheartedly. It stinks that there are some vegetarians who are such pains in the butt, giving those who are minding their own business a bad name.
Regarding the wedding/dinner guest scenario, it aggravates me to hear people complaining about what’s being served. An example: my family is Italian, and my father is a great cook. For big family meals like Thanksgiving and Christmas, he prepares 4 or 5 courses… hot and cold antipasti, soup, homemade pasta, then a meat (turkey, ham, lamb, whatever) and several side dishes (potatoes, turnips, etc.) It’s a huge (and delicious) undertaking.
Normally, a few of the dishes that come before the meat would be fully vegetarian, but others might have, for example, chicken broth in them. However, I have a vegetarian cousin, so my father, who is a bit old-fashioned and doesn’t really see the point of vegetarianism, has learned to prepare each course (except for the meat, obviously) without any meat. The meatless courses are terrific, and he always gets tons of compliments.
Despite the effort being made on her behalf, and despite the fact that this three-hour meal is so huge I can almost never get to the end, my cousin always makes a big deal about needing to have extra pasta or extra soup because she can’t eat the meat. It really irritates me that even though everyone agrees that her needs are important, that she still has to make a big deal out of it.
So thank you to vegetarians who are not whiny like that, and thank you for letting me get this out of my system.
Of course, she was the type to be as obtuse as possible. Staunch feminist, anti-everything. I don’t bother her much now, but back then… Oooh, I was not happy. Oh well, just thought I’d share my sad little tale.