…at the First National Bank.
In God we trust, all others pay cash.
That’s interesting. See, Darwin was a Christian. To any out there who haven’t actually read his work, a large portion of it is devoted to trying to reconcile his scientific findings and his spiritual beliefs.
Personally, I’ve always kind of wanted to put the Christ fish on one side of my car and the Darwin on the other. I figure it’d confuse more people than it’d help, though.
Here’s something I wrote in my early days at SDMB, which I thought was relevant:
…And here we get to a big part of the reason why I left Christianity. I wanted to abide in God. All I wanted was a little feedback as to whether I was on the right track, and my prayers felt like talking to a brick wall, and any number of ex-Christians will tell you the exact same thing, in the exact same terms: prayer was, for them, “like talking to a brick wall.” But I was humble, and decided that perhaps I just had to be patient, or perhaps it was arrogant of me to expect the Lord and Master of the Universe to give to a puny human like myself even so much as a reason to believe in Him, so I turned to the Bible for guidance- even if God wasn’t speaking to me in person, at least He had given me His Word in the Scriptures. But I wanted to make sure that I was completely subservient to God’s will. Too many Christians read Scripture only to find the excuses they need for their own selfish desires and prejudices, and so I resolved that I would cast all my preconceptions away and read the Bible for what it really was, even if that meant radically changing my opinions about what God wanted of me.
A funny thing happened at that point. I had been told all along that the Old Testament contained prophecies of Jesus, but I read it again and again and clearly there were no propecies there at all- there was just a bunch of stuff about how some big warrior would come along and destroy Egypt and Babylon. I also found that the Christianity preached by Jesus was very different from the Pauline Christianity that people believe in today. Later I found that my reading of the plain word of the Bible is precisely the consensus of modern Biblical scholars, although I had heard nothing about such scholarship at the time.
Now, tell me- how do you explain this? Some Christians tell me I was insincere in my prayers. They, you see, were sincere- one woman I spoke to had been on drugs, had a few children out of wedlock, and generally reduced her life to a shambles and hurt everyone around her, but then she prayed to God, and she was very, very sincere about her wish for God to bail her out of problems of her own making, and poof God appeared to her, fixed everything, and that’s why she knows that it is entirely legitimate for God to execute the people of Sodom for nothing more than consensual homosexual activity.
I am also told that I was impatient. Impatient? Glitch mentioned years of spiritual beating. He was impatient? It’s as if you told me that your dog was friendly, but when I tried to pet him, he bit me. “Oh, he just needs to get used to you.” So I try to pet him again, and he bites me. “Just be patient.” Five years of attempted petting later, he still bites me. “Please understand that he’s a smart dog- maybe smart enough to understand that biting you is good for you, even though you don’t yet understand how.” Ten years later, he bites me. What kind of fool do you take me for?
Being told that we just have to be patient sounds a lot like being told that our check is in the mail, that we should be patient even if we’re feeling a financial pinch because of the absence of the check, and that if we decide that the check isn’t really in the mail, we forfeit our legal right to the check. How many years of our lives do we have to waste before you respect our opinions? What on earth gives anyone the right to doubt our sincerity just because we haven’t wasted enough years yet? I’ve tried Christianity, and I’ve tried my current religion, and my current religion works better. Why would I be anything but crazy to go back to something that has already proven itself to not work for me?
(This is from the “Could You Believe?” thread, started by The Notorious A.R.G. It deals with the question of people who have the “praying to a brick wall” experience, and can be found at:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=22523&pagenumber=1)
-Ben
Ehhh, yes but no. Darwin was a Christian in a time when it was largely social anathema to say you were anything other than one. (Except perhaps a Jew, and that carried its own baggage in the UK and the rest of Europe at that time.) And certainly his early work reflects what you say. But based on all the research on Darwin, I think it’s safe to say that he definitely abandoned any adherence to Christianity and probably to theism altogether.
Polycarp already mentioned Matthew 7:21 earlier in this thread:
Now all y’all have to do is figure out just what the will of the Father in heaven is.
jenkinsfan, it was nice of you to post your opening post.
If One person accepts Jesus because of it, then you’ve gone good.
However, it Should’ve been in IMHO instead of GD.
Also, to the point earlier, it says in the Bible that God hardens whom He will harden, meaning some folks who don’t become christians are becasue God didn’t want them to, or so it seems.
I forget the verse, but I’m sure someone has it.
That seems to negate free will.
Romans 9:18: “Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.”
[sub](That’s hardens their hearts, in case any of y’all are as dirty-minded as I am.)[/sub]
I fully expect tracer to come in here with a humorous comment on harden…
Us who?
How, then, can anyone call on the one they have not believed in? Romans 10:14.
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ Second Corinthians 1:21.
Again, us who?
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.
Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen. SECOND PETER 3:10-18
Now, where do you get that idea?
Let me get your theology straight: you are saying God has to do whatever Quix wants Him to do? That is your understanding of the New Coventant?
Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; (Second Timothy 2:11-12)
Again, where are you coming up with these ideas? Do you expect no one to notice you are taking scriptures out of context?
Whoops, sorry, sweetie, “This is the place for witnessing, if you feel you must.” JF’s right on target.
Just wanted to stop by and point out to all of the folks who are so outraged at “drive-by witnessing”, that this is actually a serious witnessing technique known as “leaving tracts”. A tract is a sort of small brochure or pamphlet (Chick Tracts, etc.), and the accepted technique is to leave them in public places like restrooms, or tucked into the leaves of library books.
These verses–
–are interpreted to mean, “God says His Word will not return to Him empty, so you can leave a tract in the ladies’ room at the mall, and the Bible says that someone will pick up that tract and read it and be saved.”
So that’s what JF is doing here. You shouldn’t be any more outraged over this thread than you would be if you found a Chick Tract tucked in between the pages of the book you just checked out of the library. Relax. He doesn’t want a debate, he said so himself.
From now on, people, when you see this kind of thread posted, just read it and move on. Pretend it’s a kind of MPSIMS thread, “Hey, my cat just turned a somersault!”
Well, “outraged” might be too strong to describe my reaction to that…“amused/disgusted” would be closer. But I certainly don’t think very highly of strewing Chick Tracts about as a form of argument. Even if someone is leaving non-Chick tracts, I still don’t think it’s a very cogent form of Christian apologetics.
I realize that technically this is the forum for witnessing, but it is also called “Great Debates”. Also, despite his “I’m not worthy to convey these truths” bit, jenkinsfan didn’t just copy and paste a bunch of Bible verses…he did take the time to sum up what he sees as the basic truths of Christianity in his own words. If he can do that, why can’t he be willing, at least in theory, to respond to the objections or questions of people who read his post? (I should note that jenkinsfan has now posted several times to this thread; I was mainly objecting to his seeming to rule out any sort of meaningful interaction from the get-go in his OP.)
Dang, it’s annoying when someone presents a calm, reasoned argument like that.
And Vanilla, you may think you have all your luggage right now, but that’s only because you haven’t tried to get rid of those damn robots. Mark my words, only after you’ve driven them out of your life will you know what your true potential for luggage ownership can be.
I don’t post to these types of threads to convince anyone with argument of anything they don’t already understand. I post in these threads to reassure those spirits which quail at the condemnations voiced in God’s name, by the zealous.
I have probably done exactly what most pisses off non-Christians on secular message boards, especially pragmatist, objectivist, skeptical, hard science boards, like this one. I repeat the most simple, and uncomplicated message of all, and make no pretense that I intend to accept logical refutation. It ain’t logical. It’s a fucking miracle! God loves you. You aren’t going to understand it, I don’t understand it, and understanding it ain’t the point.
Now, I do find some difficulty stretching this theology over to biology, and politics. So, I don’t. And if you do, well, have fun. I am not on your side, just because you decided God was on your side. I let Him pick his own side. And I will check your math.
Can I get an Amen?
Originally posted by quixotic78
I’ve got to ask, what does it mean when you’ve sought his love, in your own heart, sincerely, without reservation–and found nothing? Does that mean that I’m abhorrent to God, and that he doesn’t love me after all? I upheld my end of the bargain–I asked for God. He rejected me. What now?
** Quix Quix Quix **
God does ** not ** reject those who seek him. The biggest problem of all is that you sought God thinking it was some kind of ** bargain **, and you “upheld your end”. Wrong attitude. God doesn’t owe us anything. He gives us a choice. I would really like for you to read the book of Job in the Bible. Not only will it help you understand more, but it’s a very good story. It will take you about an hour to read it, and I would love to hear a resonse to you.
It would probably be more easily understood in the NIV version, but King James if great as well. Always remember, when Someone seeks God, the trials you will have, the devil wants you back, so he will try to get you back.
We are nobody to be questioning God. No one in the world has that power.
Thank you for the info, j-fan! I am a little disappointed that there wasn’t an actual dog Itchy, but I am pleased to have got the Straight Dope at last. 
“Knock, and God will answer.”
“I knocked, and God didn’t answer. Why not?”
“Who are YOU to be asking questions of God?”
Sorry, JD, but if a religion discourages asking too many questions, why shouldn’t I believe it to be a cult? The fact is that Christianity, as construed by fundies, isn’t true. It simply doesn’t hold together- it falls apart under even slight scrutiny. Trying to cover that up by discouraging scrutiny isn’t going to make fundamentalist Christianity any less of a cult.
The fact is that when people scrutinize FCism, they aren’t asking questions of God. They’re asking questions of his self-appointed representatives. Some folks are willing to respect the search for knowledge, and respond to questions positively. Atheists tell Quix that God doesn’t exist. Real Christians like Poly have answers for him too. But you? You tell him to believe what you tell him and not to ask too many questions about why God’s supposed promises weren’t kept.
-Ben
Isn’t Quix a cereal? A combo of Quisp and Trix?
Sorry, feeling hijacky today…
**Jersey Diamond wrote:
God does not reject those who seek him.**
Yes, He does. I’m proof of that. Back in '79, while in the Navy, I went thru the Born Again experience. I asked a few questions of a fellow sailor and he guided me toward accepting Jesus in my heart. I did so as sincerely and openly as possible. For that, I went thru 3 days of mental anguish. I honestly don’t remember much of the experience, except that at the end, I knew this path was not for me. I left, on good terms, making the final break in '84 when I had my experience with Freyr (the God of the Norse pantheon) at Winter solstice of '84. The path of the J/C/I God is for some, but not for all.
The biggest problem of all is that you sought God thinking it was some kind of bargain , and you “upheld your end”. Wrong attitude. God doesn’t owe us anything. He gives us a choice. I would really like for you to read the book of Job in the Bible. Not only will it help you understand more, but it’s a very good story. It will take you about an hour to read it, and I would love to hear a resonse to you. It would probably be more easily understood in the NIV version, but King James if great as well.
I recommend you read a book, JD; Frankenstein, The Modern Prometheus by Mary Shelly. Read that and then tell me if the Creator owes something to His Creation.
Always remember, when Someone seeks God, the trials you will have, the devil wants you back, so he will try to get you back.
Again, no. One of the greatest joys of my life was getting out of the Judeo-Christian value system of “black/white” & “yes/no” & “our way or NO way.” There’s a wonderful world of color beyond the black and white system of Fundamentalist Christianity. I hope someday you might see it.
We are nobody to be questioning God. No one in the world has that power.
Everyone in the world has that power. I happen to choose to exercise it. The God of the Old Testament has a habit of asking for blind obeidence from His followers, starting with Adam and Eve. Sorry, but that’s not a God I can follow or even respect.
Buddhists “know” something else. So do Hindus. So do followers of all other non-Christain beliefs.
Nice for you, I guess, but I prefer free will.
If I am in debt to someone it’s because either:
A) I borrowed something from that someone; what did I borrow from God?
B) That someone did me a favor; what favor did God do for me? (If you say “He gave you life,” I must point out that I never asked for it. If I did not ask for life, it must be a gift. Someone who gives a gift and demands something in return is a poor gift-giver indeed.)
I’m confused. Is Jesus the Son of God or is He God in the flesh? The verses aren’t clear; they say both.
If you are searching for meaning, for purpose, you need look no further than within yourself. You are capable of deciding what meaning life has for you. You don’t need someone to do it for you.
Er, uh, how do you reconcile this with the verses that say the Earth will endure forever: Deuteronomy 4:40; Psalms 78:69 and 104:5; and Ecclesiastes 1:4.
Just asking.