since it seems to be agreed that the gospels were written some time after the “Ascension into Heaven” doesn’t that mean the gospels are ABOUT jesus christ not OF jesus christ.
Dal Timgar
Oh, Brian! Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
As opposed to any other system?
My point was that your rhetorical flourishes can be used to show any way of being has its route cause in mental illness, if you insist on labeling it as such.
If you are going to be possessed by a spirit anyway – why do you frown upon those possessed by a holy one?
I must say, this is quite a surprise. I honestly didn’t think I’d get 10 responses. And I’m down right shocked to see some of the experienced posters here tagging along in a thread about witnessing when they can’t stand it. Oh, well. I guess the Gospel does draw everyone.
It wasn’t my intention to start a debate and I thought I was pretty clear about that in the OP. After all, I wrote this for those who were unsatisfied with their religion so for those of you who ignored the discalmer, I’m sorry you’re offended. I figure most of those who’ve rejected the Gospel this long probably won’t surrender to God’s grace. I knew that, but there’s always the possiblity of someone out there who isn’t responding and is quitely reading. This was for that person.
God bless you all. 
Satan sez:
[Moderator Hat ON]
Gah! Satan, I might’ve given you the benefit of the doubt on this one, since you were at least somewhat oblique about calling a fellow poster a “stupid parrot”, but since you openly admitted that you called him a stupid parrot, all I can say is: you know the rules here, yet you violate them despite often being warned of what they are. I should not have to warn you every time you lose your temper a little bit; I believe you are fully capable of posting in accordance with the rules of this forum. I expect you to do so in the future.
Any further discussion of this should be done via email to me and David or any of the admins, or in the Pit. Thank you.
[Moderator Hat OFF]
Nice reaction to the responses, Jenkies. I’d welcome hearing what you have to say about the points that Triskadecamus and I made, more or less in support of your thesis, though arguing from a different perspective than the one you chose.
Kimstu, I chose my term carefully, and you are correct on the definition you used. But what I was speaking of, in splitting out Jesus as unique among “saviors”, is “an individual whose act(s) and/or life created, according to a particular religion’s tenets, some major access to that religion’s form of safety from the troubles of this world, such as “salvation,” “redemption,” “nirvana,” etc.” And of the gods, demigods, men, or whatevers (Mithras, Attis, Osiris, Jesus, etc.), only Jesus has a specific historical setting that may be reviewed by persons not adhering to that faith to determine its putative validity. (I suppose technically Gautama Buddha might qualify under the views of some forms of Mahayana Buddhism, e.g., Pure Land, but most of these attribute such access to the actions of a large number of buddhas and bodhisattvas, nearly all of which have nebulous non-historical provenances – the Eightfold Path and the related “core Buddhist teachings” having been lost under a mystical structure that makes the most ornate Catholic hagiological embroiderings look like the most severely stripped-for-action Unitarianism by comparison.
Got it, Poly—thanks! Yet, I do think most other religions probably consider their lack of a human/historical “savior” in your sense of the term to be not a bug but a feature, so I’m not sure that Jesus’s uniqueness or near-uniqueness in this regard (especially since that is an aspect of his life that factual sources will never be able to address) really does provide “historical support” for j-fan’s arguments.
(As for j-fan, I still want to know what the story was with “Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound”, and what happened to him. Maybe I will start an Itchy cult. :))
Methinks Jenkinsfan is being more than a bit disingenuous here. Assuming he has been following the constant, maddeningly circular religious debates that have taken place here over the past months, how could one possibly think that the OP would be ignored by posters who disagree with his views?
This ain’t Great Monologues, bub, it’s Great Debates, and whether or not one puts a disclaimer on a given post, persons that have issues with the reasoning therein are likely to comment on it. One can choose to answer to those issues or ignore them, but they will be raised.
Er, actually, in this thread:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=58704
Jenkinsfan states the same points in the OP, in virtually the same language. This was approx. 10 DAYS AGO. What, people searching for Jesus can’t search the archives?
In any event, and taking my cue from the OP, I would like to announce the following:
For a long time now, I have known in my heart of hearts that robots have been stealing my luggage. The fact is, however, that robots are stealing your luggage too, and I cannot rest until I am sure that you accept that this is taking place. I am therefore going to post this message every ten days, in hopes that one of you who is reading this will take the necessary steps to ensure that their luggage is safe forever.
And don’t try to debate me on this; my mind is made up.
Thank you for your attention.
I’ve got to ask, what does it mean when you’ve sought his love, in your own heart, sincerely, without reservation–and found nothing? Does that mean that I’m abhorrent to God, and that he doesn’t love me after all? I upheld my end of the bargain–I asked for God. He rejected me. What now? I think super_head earlier said that he did the same thing, and also was met with silence. Does that mean that at the very least, I’ll have some company in whatever Place for People God Ignores?
**
Um, what does that mean? It seems like nonsense language to me. Today, I ate every meal that I ate. I took every breath that I inhaled. These are pointless statements–did you leave out a word? Are you saying, “God will save every soul that takes the initiative, and asks to be saved?” If so, then I guess I’m on easy street. I asked for God, and I was repudiated. Now, I am assured of Heaven, but I don’t have to play by the rules of the Bible. Woo, party at my place!
Thanks,
Quix
P.S. Happy 100th post to me! Does that mean that now someone gets to explain to me WTF is up with people making lists and always having “Hi Opal” in them??
The Last Supper ain’t just a painting. How many times do I have to link to John 14 before someone reads it? 
If God hasn’t manifested himself to you, you must being doing something wrong.
This is a great post jenkinsfan. I couldn’t have said it better. Thank you for this post.
My jaw is hanging open.
I’m outta this thread.
::takes off at a dead run, narrowly avoiding swinging screen door::
While I appreciate your response, I’ve noticed that, in my albeit short time, your views of Christianity are somewhat (I’ll be PC) unconventional. While that’s fine, I’ll listen to what anyone has to say (listen, but not buy into), I was sort of looking for a response from the likes of Tris, JerseyDiamond, Poly, FriendOfGod, or Jenkinsfan.
So, would one of those care to weigh in?
Thanks,
Quix
“Not everyone who says, ‘Lord, Lord’ but he who does the will of my Father in Heaven”
That something of what you’re driving at, JM?
I’ll admit there are times when I question, seriously, whether I’m practicing systematic self-delusion. But the answer I come up with is this: the person who I was in the past was far less happy with himself and his fellow man than I am. I like who I have become. And I didn’t much care for the guy I used to be. So even if I’m somehow in error on what I think, and the day they throw the “off” switch on my life support is “it” for me, I’ll be a far more satisfied person to myself, and have done a bunch of good to those around me, if I continue with the assurance I have received.
It doesn’t take any denial of one’s faith to admit that the evidence is not such as to convince a jury of skeptics – if it were, they wouldn’t be skeptics! But it is there, and a wide variety of people can testify that they have encountered something beyond themselves that meets the traditional Christian definition.
Quixotic, you have put your finger on what we’ve come to refer around here as the “Glitch effect,” after the well-esteemed long-time poster who had the same thing happen.
But my rejoinder is that you’ve done what was called for that you should do – ask – but have you stopped to listen for the response? (That’s rhetorical – you may or may not have, and I am not judging you.) Sometimes what God has in mind for an individual is not what that individual thinks, or what any evangelical, or Christian of any stripe, thinks, ought to happen. That’s why He’s God and we’re not – He has the broader view to know what’s right for whom when and why; we don’t. (Yeah, Gaudere, “mysterious ways” again – but dammit, since Omniscient is not posting to Great Debates, we have a lack of allknowingness around here, and it does seem reasonable to suppose that a God who qualifies under the job description might have a better handle on the future than we do, and presumably better things to do than to explain in detail the Divine Plan to every questioning one of us who wants to know what’s in store for him – He isn’t running Psychic Friends Network, f’r Satan’s sake!!
I do not think you are abhorrent to God, I think He does love you. If you really did seek Him out in all sincerity then you are saved. You are His beloved child, and will be with Him through eternity. You might not perceive it all yet, but it is so.
I cannot tell you what is coming after this world. I cannot understand it. But I don’t think I have the capacity for eternal life without Him. It is not punishment from Him that I will perish without Him, rather inherent in my nature that I cannot fail to perish over time. I will not presume to predict your fate, or that of any other. I do believe that it is not important that you understand what happens, only that you let yourself be loved by the Lord, and let yourself love Him, and all his children.
No. It’s a kind of pedantic grammar thing. Shall and will are not entirely equivalent. If you are willing to love, and to be loved, and able to recognize Him as your Lord, You shall be saved. If you will, you shall. You don’t do it, but you have to want Him to do it for you. The pedantry, by the way is mine, the Lord just does the Love and Salvation part, He doesn’t require the word games.
No, I am saying that God will do it. You have a very small part in it. You ask Him for His love, and give your love to Him. You don’t have to understand.
Be good. Give your love to those you meet here, on the Earth. If not for Him, do it because it is a good idea. Evil is bad. You do know it. Don’t hurt anyone, give what others need, make the world better for everyone. This stuff is not philosophically intricate, or erudite. Good is better than evil. Trust that, it is not a trick.
When you come before the throne of Heaven and the Lord of Hosts says to you, “As you were kind to me, and fed me when I was hungry, so I will give unto you.” And you will say, “But, hey, man, I never met you!” And He will tell you, and you will know that when you were kind to His children, you gave that kindness to Him, and knew Him. And He knew your heart, entire.
And every soul that will love, shall be loved.
I only quoted what Jesus himself said. The others will only tell you that you aren’t praying hard enough, or something. Perhaps if you’d rather not be a brother of Christ yourself, you could still save yourself by spending all your time housing strangers, feeding all the hungry, and visiting all those in prison – if you want to do things the hard way. Good luck.
Kimstu, So sorry. I meant to tell you this like a century ago when you asked. IIRC…
On the old Left Behind Message Board a couple of posters (Saved in '73 and Thomas) were calling themselves “pounders” after the initials LB from the LBMB. This transformed into the nickname pound puppy, and pretty soon everyone there had a dog name with some silly character trait. I asked Navigator for a name and he said I was Itchy because I constantly needed to be scratched, which how he knew that still scares me to think about. I came up with the flea-filled beagle hound subtitle just complement things.
BTW, if you go to the Parlor and ask real nice someone can give you a link to take the “What Kind of Dog Are You?” survey and give you a name. Just ask Thomas.
quixotic78, my heart goes out to you. I believe I read a quote from you that said something to the effect of, “I asked God for salvation and He said no.” (If I’m confusing you with another poster, I’m sorry.)
Sir(?), if you sincerely asked God to forgive you from your sin and save you, let me be real clear about this, You have eternal life!
God never says “no” to anybody.
**He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us, how shall he not with him also FREELY give us all things? Romans 8:32
ALL that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in NO wise cast out. John 6:37
For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13
That WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:15-16
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Proverbs 30:5
For ALL the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. Second Corinthians 1:20
THE LORD IS NOT SLACK CONCERNING HIS PROMISE, AS SOME MEN COUNT SLACKNESS; BUT IS LONGSUFFERING TO USWARD, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE. Second Peter 3:9**
Rest assured, Friend, if you accepted Christ as your personal Saviour, He gladly accepted you! Satan may try to deceive you so as to rob you of your joy and keep you from serving God, but God is faithful. He cannot lie! If you want to be saved He is obligated to keep His Word and save you. And if you doubt, you’re still saved…
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Second Timothy 2:15.
Once you become a part of God’s family, yer stuck.
Poly and others, I’ll try to respond to y’all later.
God bless all.
Don’t feel too bad - I’ll bring the beer and you bring the chips.
So that time when I was desperate and thought maybe I’d found God and opened up and got utter silence was actually God accepting me!
Well that’s a relief.