A very high school problem- my friend has a bad friend

I’m going to ask my question first, so if you really don’t care about the specific situation, you don’t have to read- if you had a friend and you knew some bitches were saying things behind their back, would you tell them? What if said friend was also close friends with one of the bitches?

So the whole story is- there’s this girl I absolutely adore. She’s the sweetest girl ever, we get along famously, we can talk about anything… we’re really really close and she’s one of the only people I can be totally open with, and she’s said it’s the same for her.

Now this girl, Steph, has another friend- Ally.

Ally’s like her other best friend (other than me). It’s really not much of a secret that Ally and I are kind of at odds. Not over Steph- for completely different reasons. We used to be pretty close, before we ever knew Steph.

Okay. so this is where it gets kind of confusing. When Steph showed up, Ally was really nasty about her behind her back. And continued to be up until we had a falling-out.

Okay, so right now- Steph knows that Ally is sort of toxic, and knows that she can be catty and two-faced, but doesn’t know any of it has been directed at her.

So what can I do? If I told Steph something that would hurt her, would that make me just as mean as Ally? Would saying nothing be a betrayal? What if I don’t think she’ll ever find out? I don’t like to see her lied to, but I don’t want to hurt her.

Should I just mind my own business?

Unless there is clear and present danger to your friend’s life or physical health, yes you should MYOB.

Ugh. I don’t envy you this.

When I was in High School, among were friends were 2 girls I shall call A and D ('cause those are their initials).

A hated D. Couldn’t stand her. Rolled her eyes at everything D said. Made catty comments about her.

D, on the other hand, really admired A. Wanted A to like her. Wanted A to stop rolling her eyes and berating her. Set out on a personal mission to be the kind of person that A would like.

I was caught in between. A liked me, and I knew she could be a nice, fun person at times. But she and I always came to blows over D, because D was even nicer and I couldn’t stand how A treated her. D would ask me why A hated her, and what she could do to make A like her.

A eventually saw my point. Started really getting to know D. Liked her. Started being polite to her, and eventually became friends with her.

Guess who was left out? Someone you might call…L ('cause that’s her initial on this board).

If you speak up, you probably won’t win here. If you say anything about Ally being toxic, it may actually drive her and Steph closer together and they’ll unite against you (yes, I realize that Ally isn’t your friend, really, but it sounds like losing Steph would hurt). Support her if the full truth comes out, but don’t try to be the one to force that truth out, is my advice.

On the other hand, if you just keep doing what you’re doing, either Steph will see more of Ally’s toxic-ness or she won’t. If she’s already somewhat aware, she’s most likely fully aware and deluding herself (“She’s a bitch…but never to me!”)

(Once again, despite the fact that I am really, really old and feeling it, I still say I’d not go back to those years for all the money in the world…)

I agree with QtM and lorene, though it’s hell on you to be stuck in the middle. If you can manage to not let yourself tell Steph, you will be a few years ahead of most of your peers in becoming an ethical adult.

Saying nothing is not a betrayal, though I think it would feel like one to me too. If she was about to marry Ally or start a business with her or something, it might be ethical to say something, not because keeping quiet would be a betrayal, but because too much would be at stake. I think that’s why the “speak now or forever hold your peace” thing is part of wedding ceremonies.

I wouldn’t relive high school if the choice was that or being rolled in thumbtacks and dipped in rubbing alcohol. Situations like what you’re going through are partly why. Why are we so mean to each other in high school?

Having been the Steph in this sort of situation very recently (grad school is a lot like high school, really) I’d say don’t say anything. You said she knows that Ally’s toxic, so deep down she probably knows not to trust her too much. If that’s what she’s willing to accept, it’s only going to hurt her to know specifics. If, on the other hand, you think she doesn’t know what kind of person Ally is, then I think the situation requires more thought.

My story is that I knew this person bitched about people - heck, she bitched about other people to me all the time! Finding out that she had been bitching about me hurt a lot, but it didn’t change anything - we’re still friends and I still know to be careful with her.

People who gossip to you will also gossip about you. That is something that we all learn in our own time. I wouldn’t tell Steph unless you want to cause drama and have the whole thing blow up in your face. I’m assuming you are a younger woman, and in that case I would mind my own business.

Now if someone was talking about my best friend of 13 years, I would likely say something to her about it. But I would also say something to the person who was talking shit. I would definitely defend my friend in that case. But I don’t really see that happening as we are both adults and don’t really have situations like that in our lives.

FYI, SD, we would like to know how it turns out! Dare I say it’s not from any prurient POV but rather because we identify with what you’re going through?

FWIW, I am still in contact with both the “Steph” and the “Ally” of my day. At the moment, I am trying to decide how to answer an “Ally” email that came in just last week. You could say - it doesn’t get any easier just because you live longer.

thanks for the advice :slight_smile: sorry for not getting back sooner- it’s the weekend and I won’t see either one fo them til Monday.

I’m going to keep my mouth shut, I suppose. That seems to be the best course of action. I’ll just be there and ready to jump in on Steph’s side if she ever finds out what’s been said.

I was thinking about it last night, and concluded, “No one’s ever 100% innocent in these things.” If you were to press the issue, there’s a definite possibility that either Steph or Ally would bring up something you once did or say that they “weren’t going to say anything about at the time, but…” Not implying that you DID say or do anything wrong, but they might not see it that way.

Oh, don’t say a word! I was in exactly your situation a few years ago and felt I owed it to my friend to tell her what was said about her behind her back. NOT telling her felt like I would be betraying her by withholding knowledge.

Wrong.

I told her and our friendship ended at that very moment. She chose to never speak to me again. She didn’t believe what this friend had said about her and I found out later that she thought I was deliberately trying to hurt her. That certainly wasn’t my motive. I miss her to this day and learned a very valuable lesson. I keep my mouth shut!

Telling someone a hurtful thing is not the way to show you care, especially if that thing is not a matter of life and death.

Uf, you remind me of a situation I had at a voluntary job… in case you want to skip the story, let me begin by the conclusion:

DON’T do anything. Watch what’s going on as if it was a movie, take note of stuff, back up Steph if she ever finds out what a bitch Ally is but DON’T try to tell her. If Steph ever asks “why didn’t you tell me?” say “because I didn’t think it would help.”

M was an asshole. He’s one of those assholes who are very good at kissing ass, though… he kissed ass with such enthusiasm that if you were his superior and weren’t careful you’d find his tongue in your stomach.

I first got him as my junior. Myself and another person (S) spent many hours training him, patting his hand when things went wrong, comforting him when his first project got delayed and we could not tell him why.

Then the “why” became obvious: we went to version 2.0 of the stuff we’d been using, at which point there was a general cleanup of writers. There had been a lot of people who were writers but hadn’t really been doing a lot, so anybody who wasn’t an “editor” or higher except S and myself (who’d been part of the secret project to move to 2.0) had to reapply. M managed to convince the boss, J, to let him skip the reapplication; in a couple months, during which S left in anger and I spent a lot of time polising details and smacking bugs, M jumped over my head. You know those guys who treat life like a ladder? Well, now that he was over me, all I saw of him was the sole of his boots, which I ignored pointedly; I don’t do that licking thing.

There were a lot of complaints to J about M, but J adscribed them to jealousy; several people left when they saw that it didn’t matter who was right… if you went up against M, you’d lost already. One of M’s tactics was to take something someone had finished 90%, while that someone was absent, finish that 10% (often changing the whole spirit of the thing; often you could see which part was from whom) and present it to J as if it was all M’s: J always ate it hook, line and sink. Heck, he ate the pole and the fisherman, if you weren’t careful.

Then one day, I was* finally * officially made an editor, supervising 3 writers; I’d been editing pretty much since I’d joined the writers’ team, but because English is not my native language I’d not been considered for an editor position. One of them publised his first piece; then the second one; then when the third was about ready, I got there for our meeting and found my writer with M “oh, I thought I’d give you guys a hand”. Since M was a senior at this point, I just bowed out.

This third project gets published. Within hours, there is an email to J and myself from N, whom we could call the “discipline manager.” She’d received a report about me being extremely lenient on writers who happened to be friends of mine; looking at this project, she’d found a lot of glaring errors. My response and J’s were pretty much simultaneous: he asked for more details and said he’d though M had done the editing; I apologized for any errors I’d mistakenly let through, pointed out that the project had had two editors (there was a post from the author in out message board indicating who had edited which parts, I referenced this post in my letter), and asked for further details on errors found.

The errors? All on the parts M had edited. Honey, if I’d been cleaner I would’a been in an ad for bleach.

And the wonderful, wonderful thing? J had a sort’a revelation. Even though he’d given me the editing of that project himself, he’d been convinced (because M had said so) that it was M who’d done it completely. Turns out that not only had M done a pretty bad job, but he’d also, ah, misled J about “how much” of the editing was M’s job. So J asked me “this work, who did it?” “M and F, M did this and F did this, this and this” “this other?” “mostly D, all M did was change two lines” and so forth.

It didn’t lead to M’s getting the hell out of Tucson right there, but it meant that J started double checking any info from M… finally. And eventually, M got the hell out of Tucson. But all the people who’d made a ruckus when they came back from a weekend camping to find their stuff gutted by Mr M? They ended up as so much roadkill :frowning:

… polisHing… publisHed… sHeeesH…

Can I claim “first hour in the morning”?

Oh, btw: the report to N had come… from M, using a secondary email which was known to most of the people in the group. D’oh :smack:

Add me to the MYOB group. Keep your focus on your friendship with Steph. Whatever happens between her and Ally is her business, not yours. If Ally bad mouths Steph in your presence by all means, defend your friend, otherwise, stay out if it. It will only end badly for you.