Aaaagh! Invited friend for visit; he's driving us crazy and wants to visit again!

Or tell him, “Hush hush. Keep it down. Voices carry.” :smiley:

Well, it will go away. I’m not sure what part of that is fucked up, though. Maybe the difference between us is that you would apparently feel “guilt inside” for avoiding a boorish houseguest, while I wouldn’t. Not sure what part of that is passive-agressive, though as to that, I’m not a big fan of aggressive-aggressive (also known as “rude”) as an alternative.

I don’t see what’s so awful about a passive-agressive approach, assuming you no longer want a relationship with this person. We’re not talking about ending a romantic relationship, where I’d think an explanation would be in order. Casual friendships end as life changes. People grow apart, get busy, lose touch. Losing touch intentionally is not that evil.
What are the chances that someone telling Bill, “You’re an open-mouth chewing butt-scratching cell phone abusing bore and that’s why we don’t want to spend time with you.” is going to make him close his mouth, stop scratching, and hang up the phone? All I see it accomplishing is pissing off Bill. (although you probably wouldn’t have to worry about him trying to wrangle an invite any more)

Years ago a friend of a friend who lives in my area thought it would be nice to get together. I could have told her that the reason I wouldn’t get together for coffee was that I didn’t want to spend 15 minutes having one-sided conversations with her self-absorbed sanctimonious self. Instead I gave vague non-excuses for not getting together until she quit asking. In the group of friends where we became aquainted, no one has anything good to say about this person, yet they keep inviting her to social occasions for fear of hurting her feelings. I knew there was a risk that if I didn’t get together with her that I might hurt her feelings. I think it’s more rude to pretend to want to spend time with someone you can barely stand.

Before he leaves, if you have any other events like going out to dinner planned, say, “Hey, Bill, I do want to go out to dinner, but that cell phone? It’s driving me crazy. Can you leave it behind?”

If you make it about the cell phone, not him, he can apologize without feeling like he was personally attacked.

Humor can do much to soften criticisms.

My niece went on vacation with us and text-messaged her way into my bad graces. I finally approached her with my hand out. “Give it to me.”

“What?” She asked innocently.

“I’ve told 3 of my best jokes and you didn’t laugh once because you were distracted by that phone. So hand it over.”

She meekly handed it over. Then I said, “When we get back from the beach, you can talk to your friends all night if you want. But when we’re together doing family things, I’d appreciate it if Justin would stay on the counter where he belongs.”

No hurt feelings and the stupid cell phone stayed on the counter most of the time. Except my girls were pretty pissed because they knew that whatever glimmer of hope they had that mom would cave in to text messaging went right out the window.

This approach is one thing I absolutely hate about other people/relationships. It leaves the other person with no idea if they are invited back but you’re actaully busy, or if they should never ask to visit again. Sure, it avoids confrontation, but it seems to me that it’s more rude, since you’re treating the other person as if they can’t take a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer.

When he calls to ask if he can come visit again, tell him you turned the guest room into a meth lab. :stuck_out_tongue:

The problem is that a people don’t take “a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer”; they immediately follow up with “why not?” or “if not then, when?”

It’s true that when you ask to visit and the answer is “we’re busy” you don’t know if the people are really busy or avoiding you. That’s why you ask again, a maximum of twice more. Three “we’re busy” = “you’re not invited” and you catch that clue. I have no idea why anyone would think it more polite to be rude to someone’s face and hurt their feelings by making explicit the reasons you choose not to have them back.

Any request you make – for a date, to borrow something, to go somewhere – if the answer is “no” three times, the answer is just “no” and you stop asking.

Three times? I give people one chance. After that, they can contact me. Besides, no one is forcing you to tell them why you don’t want to visit again. Just ‘no’, end of story or an evasive non-answer. (though that non-answer doesn’t escape the rudeness issue, it does avoid giving an ambiguous answer)

You have neatly skipped over the part where they say “Okay, what about the next week?” or “Why not?” And they are “contacting you”, each time: “Can I come stay with you?”

Maybe you truly are unequivocal enough that when a friend calls and says “Hi! I’m going to be in Yagville next month and I wondered if I could stay with you??” you would say “No,” full stop. But I submit that most of us lack the intestinal fortitude to leave the exchange at that, even if the only further response from the other end of the line is puzzled and hurt silence. So the choices are: (A) tell the truth (“You can’t come because you are a horror of a houseguest”), which is hurtful; (B) lie (“I’m having my spleen removed that day”), which is directly dishonest and you very well might get caught; or © delay and evade ("Oh I’d love to, but I’m busy busy busy . . . ") which is obviously not the most strictly honest answer, but also hopefully is not a hurtful answer.

I’m putting myself in Bill’s shoes here. Bill is asking them if he can stay, if I’m Bill and they say “we’re busy” I say “let me know when you’re not”, and leave it at that.

If I’m in the other position, I’ll say no, and, if pressed and I don’t want to be rude, give an evasive answer as to the reason. At least Bill will know where he stands.

Oops, I missed the edit window. This is how my previous post should have read:

I wasn’t quite clear before. I was switching between Bill’s shoes and Rocket’s.

Bill is asking them if he can stay, if I’m Bill and they say “we’re busy” I say “let me know when you’re not”, and leave it at that.

If I’m in the other position, I’ll say no, and, if pressed and I don’t want to be rude, give an evasive answer as to the reason. By evasive answer I don’t mean “I’m busy”, I mean, well, it depends on the person. But something that doesn’t leave open any possibility of ‘next week’.

At least Bill will know where he stands.

Then maybe you need to learn how to speak more diplomatically, because I don’t have a problem being able to discuss things in a compassionate and non-hostile manner.

By not being open and honest with him, you’re not giving him the opportunity to redeem himself.

If he hasn’t been told that the amount of time he spends on the phone is annoying you, then you’re just getting yourself more and more annoyed at each call he takes/makes, and he’s got absolutly no idea this is happening.

That’s not fair on him.

You said in your OP “he’s always been a little unaware of his own manners, but has suddenly ratcheted up the utterly boorish behavior, for no reason I can fathom.”

The reason is that noone has pointed them out to him. I’m guessing he lives alone, so there’s noone at home to call him on these behaviours. By your own account, he’s not a bad person, he just has some annoying habits that make it less enjoyable to be around him.

Are you really going to avoid him for the rest of your life just because you don’t have the balls to tell it to him straight? He’s an adult, you’re an adult. Have an adult discussion. “Dude, I’ve not really enjoyed this weekend as much as I expected to. I didn’t expect you to spend so much time on your phone talking to your friends. I felt you were more interested in talking to them than talking to me. I’d like to invite you back again, but not if you’re going to spend most of the time on your mobile.”

Of course I wasn’t advocating phrasing it like that. What I’m saying is if a person has always been a bore, and is more of a bore, and you no longer wish to spend time with him, then there is little point trying to reform him. Bill’s manners are Bill’s business. However diplomaticaly something is phrased, people don’t like to be told to change.

Not offerning an invitation, or declining to offer an invitation if asked, is not rude. Lying to people is rude.

“Hey, can I come over to your house?”

“No. I don’t enjoy your company when you talk on the cell phone even though you’ve come to visit me in my house, and your manners are offensive.”

Please diagram this exchange showing where the rudeness took place?

Damn, people stop being so mealey mouthed and weasley.

We must be operating under different definitions of “rude.” To me, it is rude to intentionally make other people feel uncomfortable when you don’t have to, to cause them embarrassment or make them feel ashamed. Those are not the entirety of rude behavior, but those are certainly examples of rude behavior. OTOH, there is nothing inherently rude about lying: dishonest, yes; but rude, no. Anyone who has ever been asked “How do I look?” by a hopeful friend wearing a hideous dress knows that it is the honest answer that is rude, not the dishonest one.

Sure. The point at which you inform a friend to his face that you do not enjoy his company, followed closely (overtaken, actually) by the point at which you inform him his manners are offensive. Please let me know if you have any further difficulties identifying the rudeness in the exchange.

To me, this is not that hard: You have to decide if the guy is a close enough friend that you are willing to have a tough conversation with him, to try to modify his behavior because you do want to see him and you would like him to come back; or whether he isn’t that close of a friend and you are not willing to have that tough conversation because you don’t value his company that highly.

And despite what some others are asserting, for most of us, having to tell someone else (a non-related adult) that their behavior is unacceptable IS a tough conversation, because of the high probability you will offend the other person, hurt their feelings, embarrass them, or otherwise make them uncomfortable. And since I personally hate correcting the manners of other adults, believing that I have neither the right nor obligation to do so, unless the guy is a close friend, I am simply going to be “busy” and not have him back to stay. I don’t “owe” him the chance to “redeem” himself, and I don’t delude myself that I’m doing him a favor by pointing up his behavioral deficiencies and making him feel bad. If that makes me mealy-mouthed, so be it.

If my friend is being an asshole and I’m not enjoying his company (in my own home particularly) you can bet I’m going to tell him to his face. If he’s being a pig in public and I have to be subjected to it, then I’m telling him to his face. That’s not rude - that’s being an adult and being upfront with someone you find offensive and boorish. I’m under no obligation to grin and bear it or excuse another’s rudeness at my expense.

“Hey, Jodi, mind if I come over and take a dump on your rug? How about we go out and I burp in your face and pick my nose with the butter knife?”

“Sure. Far be it from me to be rude and ask you not to do those things, no matter how revoting.”

Mealy-mouthed may not be a strong enough descriptor.

The question isn’t whether he was rude or not, but whether you are rude in informing him of it. You are. I have no idea why you think “being an adult” and “being upfront” are incompatible with being rude. “Upfront” is often rude. Adults are often rude. Now, you may think his rudeness (offensiveness, boorishness) excuses yours, but that is of course a matter of opinion.

Anyone asking if I mind them destroying my property would of course be informed that, yes, as a matter of fact, I do mind. Anyone burping in my face or picking their nose would find that I would avoid going out with them again. That’s my perogative, and it doesn’t carry with it any requirement that I inform them of their transgressions or assist them in fixing them.

Even if I agree with you that you have the right to tell the transgressor exactly what you think – which, incidentally, I do, you can be as rude as you want – that doesn’t mean I have an obligation to tell the transgressor exactly what I think, when I would rather not. IOW, that is a conversation you apparently would be delighted to have, having no concern for the feelings of the other guy who apparently “deserves” it, whereas that is a conversation that I would be delighted to avoid, since I intensely dislike making other people feel bad.

The only difference is that you would excuse your own behavior as not being rude, while I would not. But then, rude may not be a strong enough descriptor.

Congratulations on having no hope and faith in your fellow human beings. This will assure you that you’re never going to have a decent relationship because you will run away at the first sign of something that bothers you.

Look, I’ve dealt with people who didn’t wear anti-perspirant and didn’t realize that they stank. I’ve dealt with people who didn’t shower or change their clothing on a regular basis. I’ve dealt with people who have no indoor voice. I’ve dealt with a lot of personal issues in other people.

The bottom line is that there are quite a lot of people who do things because they honestly have no idea how they impact on the people around them or that these things are causing problems in their relationships with others.

Why? Because fearful selfish people like you refuse to say anything and instead, pull the passive-aggressive run-away routine. So they’re left in pain, wondering why people avoid them and why people never have the courage to tell them what is wrong with them.

Many of them are grateful when someone finally comes to them and says, with compassion, sympathy and discretion, that such-and-such is a problem and that they need to take care of it.

This is what FRIENDS do. It’s called caring for your fellow human beings, not just being a selfish jerk who only thinks about other people in terms of their own self and abandons them the minute there is any sort of unpleasantry.

Seriously people, this is the key to it all.