Aaaagh! Invited friend for visit; he's driving us crazy and wants to visit again!

[Jodi]

@Chimera

Congratulations on having no hope and faith in your fellow human beings. This will assure you that you’re never going to have a decent relationship because you will run away at the first sign of something that bothers you.

Wowsers. I guess all my relationships must be indecent. I’ll have to be sure to tell my family, friends, and SO that.

Look, I’ve dealt with people who didn’t wear anti-perspirant and didn’t realize that they stank. I’ve dealt with people who didn’t shower or change their clothing on a regular basis. I’ve dealt with people who have no indoor voice. I’ve dealt with a lot of personal issues in other people.

Well, thank God they had you there to show them the error of their ways! Assuming you are in a position to have to talk to other people about such issues (like, say, you’re in HR), then your intervention is probably not only kind but necessary. But if that is NOT your role, then you have no obligation to adopt it as your own. Even if Mr. Stinky sits in the next cube over every day, you could justifiably take the issue to HR and expect them to deal with it, rather than have to have that unpleasant converation yourself. Because that’s not your job.

The bottom line is that there are quite a lot of people who do things because they honestly have no idea how they impact on the people around them or that these things are causing problems in their relationships with others.

And the bottom line is that there are quite a lot of people who feel so superior to others that they have no compunction in informing others how they should behave. And may of those people are so self-congratulatorily sanctimonious about it as to believe they are doing the other person a favor by presuming to correct his manners and “inform” him of a “problem.” IF you are in a “relationship” with someone and a problem arises, then you must decide whether you value the relationship enough to either (a) ignore the problem or (b) address it. But the third option – avoidance – is a reasonable one for a relationship that is not valued that highly.

Why? Because fearful selfish people like you refuse to say anything and instead, pull the passive-aggressive run-away routine. So they’re left in pain, wondering why people avoid them and why people never have the courage to tell them what is wrong with them.

I think this is hilarious. We, who choose not to rudely inform other people of their deficiencies, are “selfish,” while you who rudely confront others with what you perceive as their shortcomings, can congratulate yourself on your magnanimity, confident they will be grateful for your correction. This has not been my experience. People are rarely grateful for correction.

Many of them are grateful when someone finally comes to them and says, with compassion, sympathy and discretion, that such-and-such is a problem and that they need to take care of it.

And many of them are embarrassed to have their problems pointed out; angry that you perceive a “problem” that they do not (like excessive texting); upset that their friendship has not been accepted on its terms but is apparently conditional; and defensive about that fact that you, a peer, presume to sit in judgment on their behavior.

This is what FRIENDS do.

No, that’s what CLOSE FRIENDS do, for SERIOUS PROBLEMS. It is NOT what every Tom, Dick, or Harry does “for” (or to) every acquaintance who might want to spend the night at their house.

It’s called caring for your fellow human beings, not just being a selfish jerk who only thinks about other people in terms of their own self and abandons them the minute there is any sort of unpleasantry.

Yeah, sanctimoniously pointing out shortcomings to others is the height of caring for your fellow human beings, all right. :rolleyes: As I have said, I have no problem with people standing on their right to be rude. I’m just consistently amazed by people who confuse their own rudeness with a public service.

[Indygrrl]

@Chimera

Many of them are grateful when someone finally comes to them and says, with compassion, sympathy and discretion, that such-and-such is a problem and that they need to take care of it.

This is what FRIENDS do. It’s called caring for your fellow human beings, not just being a selfish jerk who only thinks about other people in terms of their own self and abandons them the minute there is any sort of unpleasantry.

Seriously people, this is the key to it all.

I think your posts in this thread have been dead-on. Yeah, it takes balls to tell people the truth about themselves, but in reality you are doing them a favor. The OP should use some of your lines on Moricand (gratuitous literary reference so’s I can seem smart) and see how he reacts.

I’ll admit to being bad about this.

One of my close friends always has terrible breath. I love her dearly, but I avoid talking to her very closely. What would you say to her? It isn’t a once in a while thing, its an all the time thing. I would want to know if I had bad breath, but really, how does one do that in a diplomatic manner?

[plnnr]

Sorry, Indy, but you’re duty bound to stay silent. It would be rude to say “I’m sorry, but would you please not stand so close to me.” We all have our cross to bear.

[Jodi]

@plnnr

Sorry, Indy, but you’re duty bound to stay silent. It would be rude to say “I’m sorry, but would you please not stand so close to me.” We all have our cross to bear.

Actually, this isn’t rude at all. But the follow-up to the request will certainly be “Why not?” and that’s where the conversation breaks down for most non-aggressive people.

These are hard conversations to have. You buy your own comfort (avoiding stinky breath) at the expense of your friend’s, who undoubtedly will be embarrassed to hear her breath stinks, paranoid about the issue from now on, and reminded of a painful personal exchange every time she sees you. I guess it’s a lot easier to do inflict all that if you can rationalize that you’re doing someone a favor.

For me, the way to handle bad breath is to offer the offender a mint. Every time I see her. Just like everyone should know that three “no’s” equals a permanent refusal, everyone should know that you never refuse a mint.

[plnnr]

Or you could pull them aside, out of earshot of anyone else and say, “I certainly don’t mean to offend you, but I’ve noticed your breath has a strong odor. You may want to have a doctor or dentist look to make sure nothing’s wrong. Again, I don’t intend to be mean, but just thought you should know.”

See - straight, to the point, without a hint of rancor. Of course, some may find it rude.

[Jodi]

@plnnr

Or you could pull them aside, out of earshot of anyone else and say, “I certainly don’t mean to offend you, but I’ve noticed your breath has a strong odor. You may want to have a doctor or dentist look to make sure nothing’s wrong. Again, I don’t intend to be mean, but just thought you should know.”

See - straight, to the point, without a hint of rancor. Of course, some may find it rude.

Whether it’s rude or not depends on the closeness of the relationship and the spirit in which the tip is given. But there’s no question that you will have embarrassed the other person. In general, whether you should make such embarrassing notifications depends on whether the person can immediately do something about it, so spinach on the teeth, yes, stinky BO, no.

Or, in the case of the breath issue, you can offer a mint, thereby hopefully providing the solution without being so explicit about the problem.

[Indygrrl]

I think I’ll start going with the mint idea. That usually gets the message across without seeming rude, like “I’m having a mint, would you like one?”

This all reminds me of a joke I heard recently, the comedian was talking about dating/relationships and pushy women and said, “For the 20th time, no, I would not like a mint!” lol. Maybe you had to hear it to know how funny the joke was, wish I could remember his name.

[OneCentStamp]

@Indygrrl

I think I’ll start going with the mint idea. That usually gets the message across without seeming rude, like “I’m having a mint, would you like one?”

That works for bad breath, not so much for body odor.

“I’m having some deodorant, would you like some?”

[Jodi]

“Would you care for a TicTac? And some RiteGuard? And some Salon Selectives? And a razor? Oh, and here’s a bar of soap and a washcloth; the bathroom’s over there.”

[Solfy]

@Chimera

Congratulations on having no hope and faith in your fellow human beings. This will assure you that you’re never going to have a decent relationship because you will run away at the first sign of something that bothers you.
Why? Because fearful selfish people like you refuse to say anything and instead, pull the passive-aggressive run-away routine. So they’re left in pain, wondering why people avoid them and why people never have the courage to tell them what is wrong with them.

I wasn’t going to respond to this because **Jodi ** had quite adequately, but then I didn’t want to be accused of running away. So I’ll tell you that your hyperbole and strident tone are completely over the top here. Also, I don’t like the color of the shirt you’re wearing, and I wish you’d cut your hair.
I hope we can still be friends!

[Chimera]

@Jodi

Yeah, sanctimoniously pointing out shortcomings to others is the height of caring for your fellow human beings, all right. :rolleyes:

Which is of course, completely different from what you’re doing now and have been doing in this thread. :dubious:

[Jodi]

When you come in and tell people they have no faith and no hope, no decent relationship, and are selfish and cowardly, then you take your chances on the civility of the response you’ll receive.

[It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery]

Update on Bill’s visit:

Bill went home yesterday. He wasn’t as bad after the weekend, for the simple reason that he didn’t use his phone as much once free weekend calling ended. However, he did get a call during dinner (at a restaurant) Monday night, took it, and started talking louder and louder until my wife (who is a LOT more direct and pointed than I am) told him to lower his voice during the call. I think he’s scared of her, as he also tripped her earlier in the week (she has MS) and she yelled at him then - mostly because he stood right over her while she tried to get up (which I know is a BIG no-no, but he didn’t).

After that, he made his calls in the guest room. I still don’t plan to have him back, but the last 2 days were tolerable. If he presses for the next trip, then I’ll follow some of the advice in this thread and mention that based on his behavior, we’ll take a pass on the visit.