Beck [if I may call you Beck?] - I was, indeed, MOSTLY ‘funnin’ - a previous comment had raised my hackles a bit, and I was trying to defuse my gut reaction by responding with somewhat absurdist humor (…again. Certain habits are hard to break!). As it happens, I’m a old straight white cis-dude, but I had a continuously enlightening career of almost 40 years working at an art school, and was there embedded in a community that embraced explorations of many, many spectrums. When announcing one’s pronouns became a thing, I started filling out my nametag at events ["Hello, My Name Is Vbob. My pronouns are ‘V’] - this often got a response along the lines of ‘YOU don’t need pronouns - you’re not gay/trans/bi/tri/?’ and my stock rejoinders became ‘anything can happen after lunch’ and/or ‘just wait til we’ve had cocktails’. Do I mean it? I absolutely do want to make people think about zey’re assumptions in identifying others, and insistence on simple answers to complex situations. Fits on no form. None.
I don’t give a ripe fuck if someone with whom I don’t have a close relationship addresses me as Ned or as Mr. Themapleleaf. Both are just parts of my full name, and it would be their subsequent behavior that would inform my opinion of their communication, not the form of address they use.
When I was last in Canada, I was addressed by my first name by someone in a government agency, and said civil servant also used her first name. Prior to that, I remember the same thing at a travel agency. I don’t think it made any substantial difference to our communication than if we had used our Mr. / Ms. and our surnames. It’s become common in the English-speaking world (certainly in North America) to immediately use first names with people. The idea that this is a form of “intimacy” is an arbitrary social construct. I don’t feel it that way. Intimacy is words like “darling”, physical touching, etc. A first-name basis, not so much. Times have changed. It used to be common for even friends to use surnames with each other (Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson, for example, they call each other Watson and Holmes respectively, not John and Sherlock, though they don’t use “Dr.” and “Mr.” with each other). We don’t do that and life goes on.
I am a strong believer in substance over form. The important thing is whether you stick to the professional topic at hand without any hidden agendas, not whether you use my first name or my last name.
I don’t see why we should make big distinctions in how we speak to different categories of people. There should be a base neutral language that you can use essentially with everyone. In fact, I am currently in the process of combatting a related custom. Many languages have something called the “plural you”. To varying degrees, you address people closer / more intimate by an actual singular (e.g. in French “tu”, in German “du”) and strangers, social superiors, or people with whom you have more of a professional relationship than a friendly one, with a plural (e.g. in French “vous”, in German “Sie” - literally “they” - even more impersonal). English used to have this too (“thou” used to be the singular and “you” the plural, but also the plural “you”), but droppeed this practice around the 17th century and now has only a universal “you”.
I hate the concept of the “plural you”, I see it as a relict of feudalism that does not belong in a progressive society. A singular pronoun should be enough for all individuals; I don’t want to address one person as if they were multiple people. I don’t like the very purposes behind the plural you, which are 1) to articulate social distance and 2) to articulate respect. For the first one, I want to talk to everyone directly, even a complete stranger, and not through a filter. For the second, I respect all honest people equally; I don’t want to have to show more respect to a certain category of people (elders, superiors at work, etc.) just because they belong in that category. Using only the singular you would simply be about egalitarianism and about being able to communicate with all your fellow citizens directly and democratically.
I now live in the Czech Republic, where the singular and plural “you” are still very much a thing. I just launched a website (and related FB and X accounts) through which I intend to promote the idea in Czech society that people should go over to a universal singular you (“ty” in Czech). It’s entirely in Czech, but for what it’s worth, here is the website.
Does any feel familiar enough with their doctor to call them by their first name? What about your pastor? Is it pastor Dan or just Dan or Danielle? LEO’s? Judges. No can’t be calling judge Judy - Judy.
For some reason I’m always about to call my doc by their first name, saying doctor kinda trips me up i think it’s because they’re bedside manner is casual and familiar. Weird but don’t want to offend. I should just ask next time.
I have a standard practice of interrupting as quickly as possible and saying “I’m sorry, I never respond to unsolicited calls, and I never donate money over the phone. Bye!”
When I call a woman “ma’am”, it means I am not trying to get into her pants.
If she is worried about sexism, I would have thought that would be a positive.
I don’t even know my doctor’s name, because I go to a clinic that’s affiliated with the med school and I get a new resident every two years. They’re young enough to be my child now. Beyond the first greeting - where they do mostly introduce themselves as Dr Whatever - I don’t think I ever need to address them; it’s just me and them in a room, perhaps with a chaperone of they’re giving me a physical, and there’s no real confusion about who I’m talking to. Calling the clinic means asking for information about myself and my file, not the people who manipulate it.
I’m not religious and don’t live in a religious place. I don’t know any pastors or rabbis or reverends, or if I do know some, it doesn’t come up and I don’t use that title. It just isn’t part of my life.
I avoid cops and judges, so I don’t know. I’d probably address them in whatever way they insist upon, if I had to deal with them, because so many of them abuse their “authority”. It’s certainly not because I respect them more than anyone else.
There were 6 Marks in my 5th grade class. Our teacher decided to add our middle initial for 5 of us, Marc was called Marc with a C. My problem was my middle initial, E. I did not like being called Markie. So I ended up as the only Mark without something added to the name. Morning attendance was Mark L, Mark J, Mark, Marc with a C, Mark R, and Mark S. All of us Marks called each other by our last names as our solution.
To many of us here, this kind of relationship is incomprehensible.
The more I know, the more I like Canada and Canadians.
Customs vary, and not just by age or region. I worked in the insurance industry, which in many ways is stodgy and conservative. But we were very early in the “all first name” basis. The chief actuary was “Chuck”. The president of the company was “Ted”. That’s how we all referred to them. And while i didn’t think i ever spoke to the president, i often interacted with the chief actuary, and always addressed him by his first name. Someone who was less well known was John Smith, for clarity, but you’d address him as “John”.
My first name is unusual and hard to pronounce. My last name is common and easy. When a coffee shop asks for my first name, i give them my last name. I was startled when i saw one of the regular clerks at the train station, and she addressed me, “hi, lastname” , but it was obvious why, and i collected myself and replied, “hi, firstname”. (Which was on her badge.) But i just do that for convenience. I don’t want people to stumble over my name, and i really want to recognize my name when they call it out. (Which isn’t guaranteed if i give my first name.)
I volunteered in a school for a while, and it felt really weird that the teenage students addressed me as Ms. Lastname.
The two things i dislike about name usage are:
Medical establishments, where the norm is to address the patient by their first name and the doctors by their last name. I think this is disrespectful to the patients, and the form of address ought to be symmetric.
Sales, where sales people repeatedly use my name. In normal conversations, especially with two participants,names don’t come up very often. You say, “hello named person”, and then you just respond to what they said without using their name again. Unless it’s a salesperson, who will use my name over and over. That really puts me on edge.
What about young lady or young man to a senior person?
I give children the same respect I give adults (though a lot more leeway when they make a mistake!). My son’s friends all call me by my first name, because it’s my name, just as I call them by theirs.
Old or young, people are people.
I’m 60 and grew up on the West Coast. It would have been absolutely bizarre to call my friend’s parents by anything other than their first name. School teachers were always Mr or Ms/Mrs. If you don’t know my first name you may call me sir, dude, buddy. I appreciate being shown respect but that has nothing to do with how you address me so long as it’s not dickhead or some other pejorative and even that is fine in some contexts.
My older nephew and niece call me Uncle Haj. The younger ones (from different sisters) call me Haj which bemused me at first and annoys my eldest niece. It’s all good.
I hate it when the gardener calls me Sir or Mr Lastname. He’s worked for me for like 25 years and we’re the same age. I corrected him the first few times but it’s cultural for him and I don’t want to make him uncomfortable.
I really dislike formality but I’m happy to address people how they would like to be addressed. Just tell me. If I don’t know, I’ll default to what’s commonly done to the best of my ability. I call my doctor Doc. I call my dentist Dr Lopez in the office and Stephanie when I run into her at a show.
Patronizing as fuck, addressing them as you would a child. I can’t imagine anyone addressing my mother as “young lady” more than once (if they survived the first attempt). Besides, what’s wrong with being old?
The posters above who pointed out that I could say “Excuse me” or “Sorry” rather than “Sir” or “Ma’am” got me thinking—I’ll see if I can retrain myself. I have no sympathy for people who resist titles associated with adulthood, but it’s so very not cool to misgender people, and as was said, there’s no real reason to have gendered forms of address in that situation.
I’m a little younger than you and grew up in San Diego, and it would have been absolutely bizarre to call my friends’ parents by anything other than their last name. I think things were starting to change then, but I don’t know when it went away completely, or why we were behind the curve. I also still say “Aunt…” and “Uncle…” though I did try dropping those when I was in my 20s. I was quickly (but kindly) corrected.
Eight Bobs in 8th grade algebra. That’s when I chose to become Vbob, after a brief experiment with Vennerbob…
My PCP asked me to call him by his first name when we first met, because he said most people had trouble pronouncing his last name. He’s South Asian, and his name is actually very easy to figure out. Based on how it’s written in English it’s nearly phonetical. I called and continue to call him Dr. Lastname, and he calls me Miss Lastname. We have a fine relationship. Last visit I was wearing a T-shirt from the Huntington, and we had a nice convo about how we both love the place.
This comment confuses me. Do you mean that you only know religious people or am I not understanding you?
I call my doctor by his first name - I’ve been seeing him for close to 30 years. I’ve spoken to my rabbi using her first name in smaller groups.
I wasreferring to chela’s comment. “Your pastor” has no meaning for me.